[SlitherByU]

Originally Posted by jvandy50

yes sir, and sitting back and watching it seemed the 17 and early 18s seemed to mimic mine, hopefully you're a later build.

By luck it is. We'll see what happens in the next couple years. I'm certainly intrigued by the flat plane crank C8 Z06 that is coming.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by SlitherByU

You're starting to make some sense.

As for the R, I didn't buy it for the 1/4 mile. I've had plenty of faster cars. To include a 2k SS modified, 16 HC Challenger, and 14 GT500 modified. I currently have a Z51 C7 M7 next to my R as well. All bought new but all missing that something extra. All lacking something to me in one way or another. I've not reached that feeling with my R where it lacks so much of anything that I've grown dissatisfied with it. It could use a little more low end but not so much lacking to me that it's an issue. The 4k rise to 8250 redline more than makes up for that. It's special. It sounds special. It drives and performs special. It's VIN and dash plate say it is special. It has special equipment around it. Equipment that will not be handed down to lesser models thus diluting the GT350R model. Believe me I have analyzed and continue to analyze the 2020 GT500. The allure of the power and handling together is great. But at the end of summary, I still find in favor of my R. Ford will make 5k GT500's a year. There are likely just less than 4k GT350R's produced over a 6 year run from 2015-2020. I honestly feel more fortunate to own an R than I would if I traded it for 20 GT500. The R is for the connoisseur of driving. The purist.

I honestly couldn't agree more.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by SlitherByU

Huh? I don't deal in IFs. Circle back around if that ever happens.

Sure you do. Nobody blindly buys a car that is notorious for having specific issues and doesn't wonder about or consider the "ifs". Especially not a $70K+ vehicle. IF you do then you're a loyal fanboy after all. I am sure it is in the back of your mind and I am sure you consider it. And I'm sure you don't beat on it like you would if that thing was truly bulletproof. Maybe you don't want to admit it and that's cool. But I can't take you seriously as a car person who sits here debating these things day in and day out if you're gonna try to convince us that you never considered ALL the ifs surrounding the Voodoo engine. Even I don't put that much faith in my cars and I think GM builds rock solid engines.

Originally Posted by ST1LE

I honestly couldn't agree more.

I agree...if he was talking about the ZLE.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by SlitherByU

Huh? I don't deal in IFs. Circle back around if that ever happens.

Originally Posted by jvandy50

easy trigger...mine started it's guzzling at 6k, almost on the dot...before that she was a good girl. by 12k it was a quart every 300ish. i sincerely hope you do not have to deal with any of that shit.

My third Voodoo didn’t start until 9k. Same as jvandy, I really hope you don’t have issues either.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by jvandy50

yes sir, and sitting back and watching it seemed the 17 and early 18s seemed to mimic mine, hopefully you're a later build.

Keeping an eye on the GT350 forum, I’ve seen the same threads pop up about the 19s and a 20 though not as numerous. Oil consumption threads keep popping up pissing off the loyalists there. Not to mention many other quality/reliability issues. They still can’t put the splitter on correctly at the dealers 5 years in from what I’ve read.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by SlitherByU

But you're not. The actual "Ford" guy who is in the market for GT500 knows he can Frankenstein a 5.0 to beat a lot of things but instead opts for the GT500 because it's all about the VIN number.

I never understood this mentality nor the I’m going to keep as a “collector” and make money in the future. I’m not saying you are saying all of this, but I’ve seen all of these thoughts across every forum. Even M3/4 guys think there CS/GTS cars will be. Even if they are you rarely make any real money and would’ve been far better off “investing” in something else over those years.

Now I can fully understand handing it down to future generations/keeping it in the family type thing.

The drive and character of a car is the only thing I care about in terms of feeling special to me. None of these are truly rare unicorn cars. That is why I always thought it was an ego thing to pay a large ADM for an R or even buying a 2020 at 77k MSRP. Get a regular GT350 under MSRP now, add Forgelines, FP (or whoever’s) springs/adjustable sways and the Steeda suspension bearings/bushings/links, subframe alignment kit, frame stiffening bars and you have a much better handling car than an R for cheaper. And you have a second set of wheels for whatever and some adjustability with the sways. Last do a good track alignment of course. I have a lot of good friends at my Ford dealer that have driven a bunch of Rs and they said the way I did mine was way better for handling over a stock R. This was without camber plates. Sounds like a lot, but it only took two days and cost around 8k IIRC, with obviously the most being the Forgelines.

But hey everybody spends their money differently and cares about different things.

[minn19]

Quick question for everyone here and would appreciate your thoughts on the subject. I got creamed for two things on M6G. One, daring to suggest a track alignment is not a mod. As the Ford faithful are still clinging to the GT500 was in customer deliverable street alignment and of course it was an unfair advantage for the C8 to be in its track alignment. Most of them say it is a mod.

Second, I said it was no different then hitting the drive modes, especially the drag mode that softens the dampening for the rear on the GT500. I stated one was a manual adjustment and the other was electronic. I was told by one especially colorful member that “I was too stupid to live this long without help.”

I don’t consider adjusting the car the way the factory recommends or allows you to, especially on a car like a ZLE a mod. But, apparently I’m the crazy one.

Anyway thoughts?

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by minn19

Quick question for everyone here and would appreciate your thoughts on the subject. I got creamed for two things on M6G. One, daring to suggest a track alignment is not a mod. As the Ford faithful are still clinging to the GT500 was in customer deliverable street alignment and of course it was an unfair advantage for the C8 to be in its track alignment. Most of them say it is a mod.

Second, I said it was no different then hitting the drive modes, especially the drag mode that softens the dampening for the rear on the GT500. I stated one was a manual adjustment and the other was electronic. I was told by one especially colorful member that “I was too stupid to live this long without help.”

I don’t consider adjusting the car the way the factory recommends or allows you to, especially on a car like a ZLE a mod. But, apparently I’m the crazy one.

Anyway thoughts?

I dont call an owner's manual recommended track alignment a mod. To me it's the same as lower tire pressure on the dragstrip. I dont call that a "mod" either. If a track alignment is a mod then what is the roll cage the 500s had? Lol. Makes no sense the 500 would arrive with a roll cage but no track alignment.

Sounds to me like the M6G crew might be seeing the VIR "victory" over the C8 as the hollow and disappointing show for the 500 that it actually was. Yeah I can drive down to the local high school and dominate the JV football team in a multitude of workouts proving how much stronger and faster I am.... is it impressive if I show up at a jacked 260 and a 180 pound high school kid benches 25 pounds less than me? No.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by minn19

Quick question for everyone here and would appreciate your thoughts on the subject. I got creamed for two things on M6G. One, daring to suggest a track alignment is not a mod. As the Ford faithful are still clinging to the GT500 was in customer deliverable street alignment and of course it was an unfair advantage for the C8 to be in its track alignment. Most of them say it is a mod.

Second, I said it was no different then hitting the drive modes, especially the drag mode that softens the dampening for the rear on the GT500. I stated one was a manual adjustment and the other was electronic. I was told by one especially colorful member that “I was too stupid to live this long without help.”

I don’t consider adjusting the car the way the factory recommends or allows you to, especially on a car like a ZLE a mod. But, apparently I’m the crazy one.

Anyway thoughts?

I watched that whole show and intentionally rode the bench for that one. My position is somewhere in between. There is (in my opinion) not an issue with adjusting the suspension to the factory recommended track settings. Fact of the matter is, the CFTP was more than likely delivered with the factory suggest track settings. Likewise, the GT500 base was likely not set up to the track settings and that’s the part that frosts the M6Gers.

I wouldn’t equate something that could be handled by the flip of a switch with a modification (though totally legitimate) that requires wrenches and measuring tools. Is it on par with running drag radials? I don’t know. Neither one voids the factory warranty. Both require some amount of setup time. But one is done to factory recommendations, the other is not.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I watched that whole show and intentionally rode the bench for that one. My position is somewhere in between. There is (in my opinion) not an issue with adjusting the suspension to the factory recommended track settings. Fact of the matter is, the CFTP was more than likely delivered with the factory suggest track settings. Likewise, the GT500 base was likely not set up to the track settings and that’s the part that frosts the M6Gers.

I wouldn’t equate something that could be handled by the flip of a switch with a modification (though totally legitimate) that requires wrenches and measuring tools. Is it on par with running drag radials? I don’t know. Neither one voids the factory warranty. Both require some amount of setup time. But one is done to factory recommendations, the other is not.

Thanks, appreciate the response.

You don’t think the base GT500 in the VIR time was in track alignment settings? I thought the article made a note about an alignment. But, they cobbled together so many tests for that article it is hard to keep track.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

I dont call an owner's manual recommended track alignment a mod. To me it's the same as lower tire pressure on the dragstrip. I dont call that a "mod" either. If a track alignment is a mod then what is the roll cage the 500s had? Lol. Makes no sense the 500 would arrive with a roll cage but no track alignment.

Sounds to me like the M6G crew might be seeing the VIR "victory" over the C8 as the hollow and disappointing show for the 500 that it actually was. Yeah I can drive down to the local high school and dominate the JV football team in a multitude of workouts proving how much stronger and faster I am.... is it impressive if I show up at a jacked 260 and a 180 pound high school kid benches 25 pounds less than me? No.

More like there is a select few who are very comfortable with combining the VIR track results with the Vegas prepped drag results and calling it total destruction. When it’s pointed out that the C8 was better 0-60 and 1/4 miles, different days, same track, same driver, at VIR they quickly go to “but Vegas 10.6s....but in Texas Speed Phenom <who we otherwise hate> Did 10.6.” They either fail to consider or are in denial of the idea that the GT500 may exhibit very different traction characteristics on a prepped track than an unprepared track. Or that there is not a prepped track time for C8 Stingray.

I expect when we do see prepped track numbers for the Stingray, the 1/4 mile time will be better than 11.1. Probably not 10.6, but something in the high 10s. Thing is, GT500 is seeing almost a full second difference in what people are getting on prepped tracks and what they are getting “in the wild”. Ford’s materials even say the 10.6 is on prepped surface. The mid-engine layout of the Stingray probably makes the unprepared surface character not too much different than the prepped track performance, so probably not a near full second differential like with GT500. Maybe 2 - 3 tenths.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

I dont call an owner's manual recommended track alignment a mod. To me it's the same as lower tire pressure on the dragstrip. I dont call that a "mod" either. If a track alignment is a mod then what is the roll cage the 500s had? Lol. Makes no sense the 500 would arrive with a roll cage but no track alignment.

Both the C8 and GT500 have a recommendation, and alignment specs, for the track. Ford provide a car with a roll cage for the road course comparison. (page 47 in the 500’s supplement) Why would anyone assume that GT500 wasn’t aligned for the track by Ford?

The only reason it was mentioned for the C8 is because MT lifted the whole C8 portion from the C8 align /no-alignment article that compared the two alignments on the track.

What should be called into question is that the cars were not tested the same day. “We” know, and accept, that the GT500 CFTP could have run 2 seconds slower just days later. After all, the ZL1 M6 did when matched with the GT350R.

Originally Posted by Chadicus

Sounds to me like the M6G crew might be seeing the VIR "victory" over the C8 as the hollow and disappointing show for the 500 that it actually was. Yeah I can drive down to the local high school and dominate the JV football team in a multitude of workouts proving how much stronger and faster I am.... is it impressive if I show up at a jacked 260 and a 180 pound high school kid benches 25 pounds less than me? No.

Even more so. They ran the Full VIR that has both 3/4 mile and 1/2 mile long straights. They turned it into a roll race contest! The car with a 265 HP advantage won. have other cars been matched on Full VIR or was this selected for the GT500?

Then, the C8 beat the GT500 where the M6g crew felt the +265 HP power advantage would reign supreme. The 1/4 mile. ...but the C8 beat the GT500 by 0.4 sec!

Anyway. Motor Trend has butchered every gen6 comparison so far. They are zero’s.

[Fast02Z06]

c8 vs c8 crime. I wonder who won ? Seriously though some cops have no sense of humor

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news...cid=spartanntp

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

More like there is a select few who are very comfortable with combining the VIR track results with the Vegas prepped drag results and calling it total destruction. When it’s pointed out that the C8 was better 0-60 and 1/4 miles, different days, same track, same driver, at VIR they quickly go to “but Vegas 10.6s....but in Texas Speed Phenom <who we otherwise hate> Did 10.6.” They (M6G) either fail to consider or are in denial of the idea that the GT500 may exhibit very different traction characteristics on a prepped track than an unprepared track. Or that there is not a prepped track time for C8 Stingray.

I expect when we do see prepped track numbers for the Stingray, the 1/4 mile time will be better than 11.1. Probably not 10.6, but something in the high 10s. Thing is, GT500 is seeing almost a full second difference in what people are getting on prepped tracks and what they are getting “in the wild”. Ford’s materials even say the 10.6 is on prepped surface. The mid-engine layout of the Stingray probably makes the unprepared surface character not too much different than the prepped track performance, so probably not a near full second differential like with GT500. Maybe 2 - 3 tenths.

some things never change.