[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by rocket403

I didn't see his comments as anything other than a jab at anyone that was not in the top of the performance food chain.

Sometimes Blaq is a little harsh but you have you admit that was a pretty good little dig, subtle lol.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

I hope they track it at the smaller tracks with more corners. This will really show what it brings. VIR grand is usually done for the LL article, so we are about 9 months out on that one.

I agree. They can throw it at streets of willow, big willow, and Laguna Seca. A good mix of tracks with variety but not just one or two tiny tracks that'll handicap it.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

I agree. They can throw it at streets of willow, big willow, and Laguna Seca. A good mix of tracks with variety but not just one or two tiny tracks that'll handicap it.

When the ZL1, with its YUGE power advantage, was matched against the GT350R in a H2H, the track was Big Willow. Run the GT500 vs ZLE or Z51 there to “put the shoe on the other foot”.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by hotlap

When the ZL1, with its YUGE power advantage, was matched against the GT350R in a H2H, the track was Big Willow. Run the GT500 vs ZLE or Z51 there to “put the shoe on the other foot”.

You can do that to a Chevy though because they're expected to be great overall performance cars, don't need special circumstances lol.... that's why 100+ up advantages only matter if it favors a chevy.

I wonder why they went to VIR full at all for this tests being that they almost never do that sticking to Laguna Secs, big willow, and streets of willow usually.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Lol ask any Cop or Sheriff Deputy what they think about the Charger's reliability. FCA reliability is well known regardless of what the latest biased survey says about the camaro, a survey that when you actually read into it isn't exactly what most make of it.

But wait I remember this forum loving these surveys when the Camaro was doing well, now when it isn't they are strictly biased that isn't exactly what most make of it.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by newmoon

But wait I remember this forum loving these surveys when the Camaro was doing well, now when it isn't they are strictly biased that isn't exactly what most make of it.

I've never said anything about pro camaro reliability surveys, most of these surveys are to be taken with a grain of salt.

Go make sure your oil is topped off.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

But wait I remember this forum loving these surveys when the Camaro was doing well, now when it isn't they are strictly biased that isn't exactly what most make of it.

I have 10,6xx flawless miles on my 18. Doesn’t lose a drop of oil.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by rocket403

The reliability of the Challenger is better than the Camaro so doesn't say much about Chevy.

The performance that the Challenger offers with the RT is more than anything a Honda can offer.

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Lol ask any Cop or Sheriff Deputy what they think about the Charger's reliability. FCA reliability is well known regardless of what the latest biased survey says about the camaro, a survey that when you actually read into it isn't exactly what most make of it.

Owning a Hellcat and a ZL1, I can tell you that the Challenger's quality and reliability is at least a good decade behind the Camaro. It isn't even up for debate. However I still would get another Hellcat. But next time an automatic for sure. Not another M6 trans. I am not keeping the Hellcat I have now. It is going back as soon as the lease is up.

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Sometimes Blaq is a little harsh but you have you admit that was a pretty good little dig, subtle lol.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by hotlap

When the ZL1, with its YUGE power advantage, was matched against the GT350R in a H2H, the track was Big Willow. Run the GT500 vs ZLE or Z51 there to “put the shoe on the other foot”.

The GT500's performance is track-dependent. Put it on a track where it can't stretch it's legs and it will flat out lose. Which is why I wonder if it is a track-CAR or just a car that did good at that particular track. How well will it do against the ZLE when it doesn't have that 265 HP advantage even at the track where they compared it to the C8. The ZLE will have 10 gears to choose from, instant boost, and an engine with more torque. I don't think the GT500 will do well. And I think Ford needs to do their best to keep this comparison shelved.

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

You can do that to a Chevy though because they're expected to be great overall performance cars, don't need special circumstances lol.... that's why 100+ up advantages only matter if it favors a chevy.

I wonder why they went to VIR full at all for this tests being that they almost never do that sticking to Laguna Secs, big willow, and streets of willow usually.

That is why I said that for the GT500 to beat ANY Corvette is impressive even tho the Shelby has a 265 HP advantage and a (minimum) $10K price difference. You HAVE to overpower a Corvette if you want to beat them. Typically Ford needs some kind of advantage just to keep up. And a heavy advantage to win. And even then they can't win at everything.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The GT500's performance is track-dependent. Put it on a track where it can't stretch it's legs and it will flat out lose. Which is why I wonder if it is a track-CAR or just a car that did good at that particular track. How well will it do against the ZLE when it doesn't have that 265 HP advantage even at the track where they compared it to the C8. The ZLE will have 10 gears to choose from, instant boost, and an engine with more torque. I don't think the GT500 will do well. And I think Ford needs to do their best to keep this comparison shelved.

That is why I said that for the GT500 to beat ANY Corvette is impressive even tho the Shelby has a 265 HP advantage and a (minimum) $10K price difference. You HAVE to overpower a Corvette if you want to beat them. Typically Ford needs some kind of advantage just to keep up. And a heavy advantage to win. And even then they can't win at everything.

This is a very good, very fair analysis. Tracks will very likely matter. I would expect the GT500 to win, if only by the slimmest margins, in all but the most technical tracks. Ford has had a lot of time to dissect the ZL1 and make certain that GT500 hits the mark wherever possible. The single limiting factor could be the chassis. How much was Ford able to do to the S550 to bridge the gap with Alpha and neutralize Camaro advantages in the corners? Given my brief time with 2017 and 2019 GT350s, they've made some really significant improvements. Assuming the GT500 is better than the GT350 I last drove, it's gonna be very interesting.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

This is a very good, very fair analysis. Tracks will very likely matter. I would expect the GT500 to win, if only by the slimmest margins, in all but the most technical tracks. Ford has had a lot of time to dissect the ZL1 and make certain that GT500 hits the mark wherever possible. The single limiting factor could be the chassis. How much was Ford able to do to the S550 to bridge the gap with Alpha and neutralize Camaro advantages in the corners? Given my brief time with 2017 and 2019 GT350s, they've made some really significant improvements. Assuming the GT500 is better than the GT350 I last drove, it's gonna be very interesting.

Approaching 500 pounds more, and wearing inferior tires in comparison, I would not be shocked to see the base 500 lose to the 350 on very technical tracks. I think tight tracks are going to eat up the base GT500.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

I'd like to also, not to see it fail or anything like that but rather to have more data on how it compares with other performance cars.

Most non fanboys agree that the VIR full is a horsepower friendly track, c8 really couldn't win there. If the gt500 sets some respectable times on the Laguna Seca and or VIR Grand on top of the Full that'll be impressive and quite a feather on its cap.

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

I've never said anything about pro camaro reliability surveys, most of these surveys are to be taken with a grain of salt.

Go make sure your oil is topped off.

^These, JD power awards are especially a joke IMO. There is no real data behind them. The only ones I trust are Consumer Reports and a couple of long term runs by magazines.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Owning a Hellcat and a ZL1, I can tell you that the Challenger's quality and reliability is at least a good decade behind the Camaro. It isn't even up for debate. However I still would get another Hellcat. But next time an automatic for sure. Not another M6 trans. I am not keeping the Hellcat I have now. It is going back as soon as the lease is up.

I’m kicking myself for not leasing a Charger Hellcat last year around this time. I could’ve gotten one with 0 down and around $600 a month. It was a screaming deal, but my wife wanted the BMW (at $200 more a month with 5k down). But, it is her fun car and she was worried about RWD even with snows in our area. She lets me get what I want so I can’t complain. But, what a fun garage that would’ve been with the ZLE and Hellcat in it.

[joe944]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Tracks will very likely matter. I would expect the GT500 to win, if only by the slimmest margins, in all but the most technical tracks.

From the data we've gathered so far it does look like the GT500 will have the ZL1's number on most tracks.

I'm mostly curious to see how the battles play out on the technical tracks with ZLE vs CFTP.

It is hilarious to see the fanboys on both sides claiming total domination over the opposition by cherry-picking the minuscule amount of data we have so far.