[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by GossipSquirrelJelena

You guys need a like button like we have on m6.

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Wurd!

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

HAHAHA...it isnt that bad though. To be expected, we have at least two new members this week or so it appears that clearly signed on to just come in here but they are not "Mustang guys". We will see on that claim, but the fighting should be expected as that's clearly what they came here to do and you know us shaffe, we dont back down LOLOL.

It's remained fairly civil. A lot more civil than the the GT500 Vs ZL1 megathread on C5 many years ago...won't lie I was way guilty of poking the bears in that thread lol. and occasionally in this one as well


Blaq question for you. So you seem to want to call the GT500 an 11.3 to 11.5 car since that is where the magazines have tested it. What do you call the RE? Most magazines had high 11s I think it was MT got an 11.8 out of it.(yes we have seen the run 10s as well and cars.com did as well) Do you consider them 10 second cars or high 11s since that is what the mags got?

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Wurd!

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Agreed, nice feature on ls1tech and CF.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by bradmo9

Just FYI I'm not s mustang fan boy. Lets try to put this in a term you can understand, IF the GT 500 had a fast list. 1 car would be on that list because that's the only production car that has ran on the track. I don't know for a fact but I'm sure the 10.9 for zl1 was after the top 20 list started. People are going to figure these cars out and they're going to go faster , how much faster who knows.

A term I can understand eh? Tell ya what skippy, IF that happens then we will revisit it at that point. But for now, you can't argue a time that hasn't happened. For all you know that 10.6 might be the best that anyone will ever do.

Originally Posted by bradmo9

What if his time was the only zl1 that would had ran so far ….

We'd be looking at more than a second difference. LOL

I came this to this site cause I love the 18' ZL1 I think its the best all around car you can get for the $$ and I love the looks. But I'm realistic on what cars have potential of running.

"What if" someone ran a 10.5 in a ZL1? "What if" this and "what if" that? "What if", is not the same as what is.

Originally Posted by TreedYou

How can I take this another way?
you literally said those problems don't apply to the camaro and corvette?
Please re-read your post, was it incorrect? you didn't mean that the camaro or corvette does not have traction problem and is not affected by DA?

Camaros and Corvettes typically are better built and have better control than Mustangs. Remember back when I mentioned control? Mustangs are greatly affected by a lot of conditions that do not affect Camaro and Corvettes due to how they are engineered. Suspension and chassis setups have a part as does the actual engine. DOHC engines are more prone to heat soak and have more problems when heat soak sets in. You'll start getting high cylinder head temps and maybe a few warnings. Throw an open filter CAI on a Mustang and you'll be in limp mode after 20 minutes of stop and go driving on a cool 70-80 degree day. Your IATs will likely be 130+. OHV engines are not as susceptible. Our engines typically run cooler than DOHC engines. And they cool down faster. If you see ice bags on intake manifolds at a track, most likely the car is a Mustang.

Plus GM built the 6th Gen Camaros (especially the ZL1) specifically to remain cool when pushed hard and in extreme temps. They leearned from the mistakes of the 15-16 Z06 and built the Camaros to not have those same problems. So take away a variable like great DA or cool temps and the Mustang will struggle to large degrees. The Camaro, due to the engine design and how it is built, will not be affected as badly. Take away great track prep and the Mustang will struggle to gain footing while the Camaros and Vettes won't have even close to the same degree of trouble. Remember all those videos with Mustangs losing traction and slamming into crowds and cars and curbs? We make fun of it but the truth is that it comes down to how well these cars are built and how they handle power on the pavement. One thing you'll see in most reviews about the Camaro is how well controlled they are. I can tell you from my experiences owning multiple Mustangs over 20 years that they will lose control easily and in a wicked manner. And in a lot of cases by the time it loses control it is too late. Camaros and Corvettes are much more forgiving. Back in the mid 90s GM was making great improvements to yaw control and it shows in cars today.

So that is what I meant by saying that Camaros and Corvettes do not suffer the same issues as Mustangs.

[bradmo9]

I've had to read this a couple times to makes sure I was reading it correctly lol

What IF what IF the zl1 has had several years to get the 10.9. The GT 500 has had one trip to the drag strip.

DA affects Camaro and Corvette's just the same as any other car, my vette would slow down when DA was high and run better times when it was low.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

A term I can understand eh? Tell ya what skippy, IF that happens then we will revisit it at that point. But for now, you can't argue a time that hasn't happened. For all you know that 10.6 might be the best that anyone will ever do.

"What if" someone ran a 10.5 in a ZL1? "What if" this and "what if" that? "What if", is not the same as what is.

Camaros and Corvettes typically are better built and have better control than Mustangs. Remember back when I mentioned control? Mustangs are greatly affected by a lot of conditions that do not affect Camaro and Corvettes due to how they are engineered. Suspension and chassis setups have a part as does the actual engine. DOHC engines are more prone to heat soak and have more problems when heat soak sets in. You'll start getting high cylinder head temps and maybe a few warnings. Throw an open filter CAI on a Mustang and you'll be in limp mode after 20 minutes of stop and go driving on a cool 70-80 degree day. Your IATs will likely be 130+. OHV engines are not as susceptible. Our engines typically run cooler than DOHC engines. And they cool down faster. If you see ice bags on intake manifolds at a track, most likely the car is a Mustang.

Plus GM built the 6th Gen Camaros (especially the ZL1) specifically to remain cool when pushed hard and in extreme temps. They leearned from the mistakes of the 15-16 Z06 and built the Camaros to not have those same problems. So take away a variable like great DA or cool temps and the Mustang will struggle to large degrees. The Camaro, due to the engine design and how it is built, will not be affected as badly. Take away great track prep and the Mustang will struggle to gain footing while the Camaros and Vettes won't have even close to the same degree of trouble. Remember all those videos with Mustangs losing traction and slamming into crowds and cars and curbs? We make fun of it but the truth is that it comes down to how well these cars are built and how they handle power on the pavement. One thing you'll see in most reviews about the Camaro is how well controlled they are. I can tell you from my experiences owning multiple Mustangs over 20 years that they will lose control easily and in a wicked manner. And in a lot of cases by the time it loses control it is too late. Camaros and Corvettes are much more forgiving. Back in the mid 90s GM was making great improvements to yaw control and it shows in cars today.

So that is what I meant by saying that Camaros and Corvettes do not suffer the same issues as Mustangs.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Blaq question for you. So you seem to want to call the GT500 an 11.3 to 11.5 car since that is where the magazines have tested it. What do you call the RE? Most magazines had high 11s I think it was MT got an 11.8 out of it.(yes we have seen the run 10s as well and cars.com did as well) Do you consider them 10 second cars or high 11s since that is what the mags got?

The GT500, in testing that we all here have established as being official, ran 11.3, 11.4, and 11.5. I acknowledged that it has run faster when conditions allowed.

But I am skeptical of this kid, SP, since he has a reputation for lying in his videos. Even more so since he defended those lies but then removed those videos where he was lying. I also found it suspicious that Ford made it seem like Evans ran his 10.6 after the press event when in fact it was months prior to that event and it was a pre-production model and a private session. Now I am not saying that they didn't do whatever. But I am saying that I'm not naive and gullible enough to blindly follow along without asking questions when something seems off.

That being said, the Hellcat in the same testing has run mid to high 11s. Cars.com got a Redeye to low 11s and a 10.8. But I have on many occasions called the Hellcat out for running slower than the ZL1 when tested. So I'm not sure if you were expecting me to be biased there or what. I'll add tho that at local tracks I was hanging out with a Hellcat crew and they were running 10.7s to 11.1s all of them with DRs and one or two of them with a CAI. This was in the middle of Summer so take that for what it's worth. On street tires and in decent temps/DA I doubt a Hellcat will do much better than mid to high 11s in most cases. The newer ones tho might be a bit faster due to the tires they come with. Mine has 275 P-Zeros which are the most God-awful tires on the planet and couldn't even handle my FBO Camaro SS.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by bradmo9

I've had to read this a couple times to makes sure I was reading it correctly lol

What IF what IF the zl1 has had several years to get the 10.9. The GT 500 has had one trip to the drag strip.

I don't care about "what ifs".

Originally Posted by bradmo9

DA affects Camaro and Corvette's just the same as any other car, my vette would slow down when DA was high and run better times when it was low.

Own a bunch of Mustangs for as long as I have...then talk to me about DA and heat soak and high IATs and cylinder temp warnings and limp mode. It'll make whatever you thought your Corvette was going thru seem like nothing.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The GT500, in testing that we all here have established as being official, ran 11.3, 11.4, and 11.5. I acknowledged that it has run faster when conditions allowed.

But I am skeptical of this kid, SP, since he has a reputation for lying in his videos. Even more so since he defended those lies but then removed those videos where he was lying. I also found it suspicious that Ford made it seem like Evans ran his 10.6 after the press event when in fact it was months prior to that event and it was a pre-production model and a private session. Now I am not saying that they didn't do whatever. But I am saying that I'm not naive and gullible enough to blindly follow along without asking questions when something seems off.

That being said, the Hellcat in the same testing has run mid to high 11s. Cars.com got a Redeye to low 11s and a 10.8. But I have on many occasions called the Hellcat out for running slower than the ZL1 when tested. So I'm not sure if you were expecting me to be biased there or what. I'll add tho that at local tracks I was hanging out with a Hellcat crew and they were running 10.7s to 11.1s all of them with DRs and one or two of them with a CAI. This was in the middle of Summer so take that for what it's worth. On street tires and in decent temps/DA I doubt a Hellcat will do much better than mid to high 11s in most cases. The newer ones tho might be a bit faster due to the tires they come with. Mine has 275 P-Zeros which are the most God-awful tires on the planet and couldn't even handle my FBO Camaro SS.

I wasn't looking for bias or anything, just wanted to see what you considered a RE since we have seen them run faster than mag testing and the mag testing seems to be on the slow end compared to real runs by real owners.

So do you consider the RE a high 11 second car or a high 10 second car?

[bradmo9]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I don't care about "what ifs".


Own a bunch of Mustangs for as long as I have...then talk to me about DA and heat soak and high IATs and cylinder temp warnings and limp mode. It'll make whatever you thought your Corvette was going thru seem like nothing.

Don’t know what year model mustangs you’ve owned. But I’ve owned several starting with 88gt all the way up to 18’ gt never have had any issues with heat soak besides my 04 cobra that was upper and lowered pulley spinning the hell out of the stock blower but that was all on me.

[TreedYou]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

A term I can understand eh? Tell ya what skippy, IF that happens then we will revisit it at that point. But for now, you can't argue a time that hasn't happened. For all you know that 10.6 might be the best that anyone will ever do.

"What if" someone ran a 10.5 in a ZL1? "What if" this and "what if" that? "What if", is not the same as what is.

Camaros and Corvettes typically are better built and have better control than Mustangs. Remember back when I mentioned control? Mustangs are greatly affected by a lot of conditions that do not affect Camaro and Corvettes due to how they are engineered. Suspension and chassis setups have a part as does the actual engine. DOHC engines are more prone to heat soak and have more problems when heat soak sets in. You'll start getting high cylinder head temps and maybe a few warnings. Throw an open filter CAI on a Mustang and you'll be in limp mode after 20 minutes of stop and go driving on a cool 70-80 degree day. Your IATs will likely be 130+. OHV engines are not as susceptible. Our engines typically run cooler than DOHC engines. And they cool down faster. If you see ice bags on intake manifolds at a track, most likely the car is a Mustang.

Plus GM built the 6th Gen Camaros (especially the ZL1) specifically to remain cool when pushed hard and in extreme temps. They leearned from the mistakes of the 15-16 Z06 and built the Camaros to not have those same problems. So take away a variable like great DA or cool temps and the Mustang will struggle to large degrees. The Camaro, due to the engine design and how it is built, will not be affected as badly. Take away great track prep and the Mustang will struggle to gain footing while the Camaros and Vettes won't have even close to the same degree of trouble. Remember all those videos with Mustangs losing traction and slamming into crowds and cars and curbs? We make fun of it but the truth is that it comes down to how well these cars are built and how they handle power on the pavement. One thing you'll see in most reviews about the Camaro is how well controlled they are. I can tell you from my experiences owning multiple Mustangs over 20 years that they will lose control easily and in a wicked manner. And in a lot of cases by the time it loses control it is too late. Camaros and Corvettes are much more forgiving. Back in the mid 90s GM was making great improvements to yaw control and it shows in cars today.

So that is what I meant by saying that Camaros and Corvettes do not suffer the same issues as Mustangs.

So when I visit the track and see Camaro's and Corvette's blowing off the tires and having traction problems and going slower because the DA is +500-1000 does it mean those cars are defective or "poorly" built?
I feel like you haven't been to a drag strip as much as you put on, to be saying some of these things.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I wasn't looking for bias or anything, just wanted to see what you considered a RE since we have seen them run faster than mag testing and the mag testing seems to be on the slow end compared to real runs by real owners.

So do you consider the RE a high 11 second car or a high 10 second car?

I literally just answered your question shaffe. If we are comparing it to ZL1 magazine times then it can be considered a mid to high 11. At best it has done 10.8 thru Cars.com. But since Cars.com has not given a ZL1 the same treatment I do not think we can accurately compare that 10.8 to the ZL1's 11.4.

I am not sure what private owners are running bone stock because most of them are not running bone stock. They all are on a tire. Which I can respect. So if we're comparing private owner times then I don't know what to tell you. My assumption would be that they are about neck and neck with the Redeye probably squeezing slightly ahead.

Originally Posted by bradmo9

Don’t know what year model mustangs you’ve owned. But I’ve owned several starting with 88gt all the way up to 18’ gt never have had any issues with heat soak besides my 04 cobra that was upper and lowered pulley spinning the hell out of the stock blower but that was all on me.

Ok so you're confused. Because all we have heard for the past few weeks is track prep this and how the GT500 would have done better if the DA was better and even the footnote on it's performance says the 10.7 is on a prepped track. And we literally have every Mustang fanatic talking about how hot it was when they ran the GT500 and how the engine was heat soaked and ran without a break. And we literally see that without the track prep and in not soo great DA it ran 11.3, 11.4, and 11.5. Meanwhile the ZL1 and Corvettes have nowhere even close to those fluctuations. The C8 has run 11.1 and the ZL1 has run 11.3-11.5. And literally, our resident troll has been doing nothing but ranting on and on and making excuses about how the GT500 will do much better on a prepped track and how horrible the DA was when they ran it. So you tell me what's what.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by TreedYou

So when I visit the track and see Camaro's and Corvette's blowing off the tires and having traction problems and going slower because the DA is +500-1000 does it mean those cars are defective or "poorly" built?
I feel like you haven't been to a drag strip as much as you put on, to be saying some of these things.

Well the difference is at the track you would be seeing cars with different power levels and different builds and different skill levels etc. Some of them might not have been built properly by the owner. Maybe they ran a terrible tire or put too much power down. But we aren't talking about that. We're talking about how these cars are performing stock. If you want to get into talking about what so and so did in whatever car he drove and what mods were done then we'd be opening up an entirely different conversation. And for the record, you don't seem to be as experienced as you put on. Not that I care one way or another.

[bradmo9]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Well the difference is at the track you would be seeing cars with different power levels and different builds and different skill levels etc. Some of them might not have been built properly by the owner. Maybe they ran a terrible tire or put too much power down. But we aren't talking about that. We're talking about how these cars are performing stock. If you want to get into talking about what so and so did in whatever car he drove and what mods were done then we'd be opening up an entirely different conversation. And for the record, you don't seem to be as experienced as you put on. Not that I care one way or another.

So what’s the reason you ran second slower than the fastest stock zl1???

[TreedYou]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Well the difference is at the track you would be seeing cars with different power levels and different builds and different skill levels etc. Some of them might not have been built properly by the owner. Maybe they ran a terrible tire or put too much power down. But we aren't talking about that. We're talking about how these cars are performing stock. If you want to get into talking about what so and so did in whatever car he drove and what mods were done then we'd be opening up an entirely different conversation. And for the record, you don't seem to be as experienced as you put on. Not that I care one way or another.

I'm not even on a car vs a car right now, you are literally trying to say that density altitude and traction problems aren't universal.

Let me add I've seen lots of STOCK, mustangs, corvettes, camaros, challengers.. with traction problem and running slower in high DA equally.


You saying forces of nature and physics don't apply to a certain car are mind boggling.