[hotlap]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

You must like getting owned.

Show me a production gt500's reviewed and verified 10 second run, I'll wait. The closest is the publishers recorded 11.2 at a drag strip and even that doesn't really count (regardless if it ends up being faster or slower than that, it was a prepped surface vs street for the zl1 tests). The others are just fast list level runs, especially shallow stage preproduction b.s. 10.6, there's zl1's in the 10s too if that's the case. Until it gets ran by a reputable publisher those times are speculation, it will be faster but not 10.6 faster.

According to motor trend the 2013 gt500 is a 11.6 @125 car and car and driver has it at 11.8. 11.7 according to Ford per R&T btw. The zl1 m6 motor trend reviewed ran 11.8 @123 and car and driver ran a zl1 1le m6 at 11.7 @124, motortrend got 11.7 as well for the zle. This is m6 to m6 not mentioning the faster a10 obviously.

That gt500 was solid rear axle and had more power even though it was older, and besides the 1/4 got beat by the zl1 top speed and handling wise. Both cars did have some handicaps, the zl1 with the obvious torque management bog, and to be fair the gt500 with super long gearing and not great tires

Not quite as embarrassing as a 526 horsepower $20k+ gt350 running 12.3-12.5, same as an m6 455 horsepower camaro ss.

Robby. I always appreciate the thought and detail you put into your posts.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Robby. I always appreciate the thought and detail you put into your posts.

Thanks brother this thread has really sharpened my pony car performance stats game lol

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Robby. I always appreciate the thought and detail you put into your posts.

I have to echo that sentiment. You always make me expand my thinking.

[shaffe]

I got you Blaq, it doesn't matter how fun something is or if you enjoy driving it or not as long as it's the fastest or best performance that's all that matters and theres nothing wrong with that.

Me I'll go with what puts a bigger smile on my face and provides me with better fun factor

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I got you Blaq, it doesn't matter how fun something is or if you enjoy driving it or not as long as it's the fastest or best performance that's all that matters.

Me I'll go with what puts a bigger smile on my face and provides me with better fun factor

Well on a vs forum the performance data is really all that can be argued. And for many people having the fastest or most powerful car is 90% of the enjoyment. Without that these cars wouldn't exist.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I have to echo that sentiment. You always make me expand my thinking.

Thanks Martin, I think all of us here benefit from your informative industry insider posts and educated projections of the automotive topics we like debate for hundreds of pages

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Thanks Martin, I think all of us here benefit from your informative industry insider posts and educated projections of the automotive topics we like debate for hundreds of pages

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

Well on a vs forum the performance data is really all that can be argued. And for many people having the fastest or most powerful car is 90% of the enjoyment. Without that these cars wouldn't exist.

That's a fair point. I was commenting more on we see what these cars can do, they get reviewed and test against each other and then we debate the results. There are times where the better performing car wins the head to head (see pretty much any GT vs SS matchup since both went to 6th gen) or times where the better performing car loses (5th Gen GT500 vs 5th Gen ZL1, ZL1 vs GT350) To me there is more to it than just all out performance, the fun factor plays a huge role to me. A couple of years ago I would probably would have said all out performance mattered most but my views have changed as I've gotten a little older and learned to enjoy things more

My 04 gt was about half second slower than my 07. The 07 was a better car, faster car, nicer interior and just all around better, but I had much more enjoyment in my 04. I don't know if it was because the 04 was way less refined, but driving that car hard to me put a bigger smile on my face than the 07 even though the 07 was faster. After about a year of owning the 07 I wish I had never gotten it and kept my 04.

[13vertss]

One thing I really give kudos to Ford is there exhaust sound. Makes the GM performances cars sound sick. And most reviews you hear, the exhaust seems to be the biggest compliment wether a mag review or just someone test driving it. To many, that is one of the biggest selling point. GM needs to make there performance cars sound like a performance car. I would love my Vette sound like the GT, GT350 or GT500

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I got you Blaq, it doesn't matter how fun something is or if you enjoy driving it or not as long as it's the fastest or best performance that's all that matters and theres nothing wrong with that.

Me I'll go with what puts a bigger smile on my face and provides me with better fun factor

Originally Posted by Chadicus

Well on a vs forum the performance data is really all that can be argued. And for many people having the fastest or most powerful car is 90% of the enjoyment. Without that these cars wouldn't exist.

I got to drive a 2017 ZL1 and a 2016 or 17 GT350 back to back at a closed event at GM Proving Grounds before I retired. I didn’t own a Camaro at the time. Both cars were a blast to drive. The ZL1 was faster in every way, handled better, and had more creature comforts. Choosing between them was a no-brainer. ZL1, ZL1, ZL1. Done.

I drove a 2019 GT350 recently. Even almost three years removed from the last time I drove a GT350, I can say this was a different animal than the last one. I wish I had a ZL1 to drive back to back with it. It would not be a no-brainer this time. I would still expect the ZL1 to out-perform it on most if not all measures. What I wanna know is whether I still consider the ZL1 to still be better in the handling department and would I still consider the ZL1 to be the most fun to drive between the two.

I still would not trade my car for the GT350, just like I didn’t buy a ZL1 when I had the opportunity to buy one. I have to have a convertible (not a GT350 option) and I didn’t have to have the “king of the hill” so the price (and insurance) difference of the ZL1 vert over the SS vert wasn’t enough to move me. I have no issues with someone concluding that one car is “more fun to drive” than another car that can out-perform it in every way. We are all blessed with all the high performance options available to us. Pick the one you like best and drive it like you stole it.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I got you Blaq, it doesn't matter how fun something is or if you enjoy driving it or not as long as it's the fastest or best performance that's all that matters and theres nothing wrong with that.

Me I'll go with what puts a bigger smile on my face and provides me with better fun factor

If two cars are close in performance but one just happens to be faster, then I will choose based on which car I like better or which car has the better deal. Which is why I bought my 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS 9 years ago. The GT was faster but it was close enough to be a driver's race. And I got a smokin deal on the SS. The GTs were not close in price. However when there is a huge difference between two cars, like there is between the ZL1 and GT350R, then I will choose based on performance and because the ZL1 is cheaper which further makes it a better deal. But I buy these cars for performance and not much else. My enjoyment comes from knowing I have a 650 HP monster under the hood.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

If two cars are close in performance but one just happens to be faster, then I will choose based on which car I like better or which car has the better deal. Which is why I bought my 2010 Camaro 2SS/RS 9 years ago. The GT was faster but it was close enough to be a driver's race. And I got a smokin deal on the SS. The GTs were not close in price. However when there is a huge difference between two cars, like there is between the ZL1 and GT350R, then I will choose based on performance and because the ZL1 is cheaper which further makes it a better deal. But I buy these cars for performance and not much else. My enjoyment comes from knowing I have a 650 HP monster under the hood.

See when you say it like that it doesn't come off as bad as some of your earlier posts lol.

[TheRealJA105]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

One thing I really give kudos to Ford is there exhaust sound. Makes the GM performances cars sound sick. And most reviews you hear, the exhaust seems to be the biggest compliment wether a mag review or just someone test driving it. To many, that is one of the biggest selling point. GM needs to make there performance cars sound like a performance car. I would love my Vette sound like the GT, GT350 or GT500

I 100% agree, but I don't think you are going to get those better sounds from a pushrod engine.

Exhaust sound is a stupid reason to give a car a win in a head to head when it loses every performance metric though.

[BlaqWhole]

I will give credit where it is due and say the Mustang does sound good. However it isn't THAT good that it makes the Camaro sound like trash. The Camaro sounds great, even if the Mustang might sound a bit better. One big difference is that I can put LTs and a 3 inch exhaust on a Camaro and have virtually no drone. Do that in a Mustang and your ears will bleed after 20 minutes of highway driving at 2000+ RPMs. My GT had such drone that if I had coins in the cup holder they would rattle at normal cruising speeds. And you would not be able to hold a conversation at 70 MPH. That was with a MBRP stainless steel catback. My SS was quiet at cruising speeds but at WOT it sounded wicked.