[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by newmoon

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Ok lets run this down for you. C&D and MT seem to be the go to resources for reviews of these vehicles. Lets do a quick review.

C&D(best)
1/4 mil
Camaro 1LE - 12.4 @ 116
GT350 - 12.3 @ 119

Lightning Lap
Camaro 1LE - 2.54.8
GT350R - 2.51.8

MT (Best)
1/4 mile
Camaro 1LE - 12.5 @ 115.2
GT350 - 12.3 @ 117
GT350R - 12.2 @ 119

HL - Laguna Seca
Camaro 1LE - 1.37.78
GT350 - 1.36.83
GT350R - 1.36.11

You are wrong and making shit up. I was comparing it to the gt350 not the gt350r, but since you have your fanboy blinders on you couldn't see that, I was pretty specific.

C&D has 12.3 for the 1le.. don't have to look far either, in the shootout vs the pp2 a few months back, as well as for a regular SS M6 twice and an alleged 12.2. Sister car rag R&T has 12.3 as well.

MT has 12.4 for the 1le.. best drivers car 2017 article, nice try claiming the 12.5 as their best though.

I said the best advantage the gt350 has gotten is the pilot sport cup 2's and the proof is in the pudding..

MT 2019 gt350 got 12.3 with the psc2s
MT 2016-18 gt350 12.4 best.
MT has actually gotten 12.1 for the gt350r.. in the latest gt500vs350 article they claim they have gotten 12.1-12.3 with a gt350r, unlike you I don't need to omit or make up results to make a point.

C&D 2019 gt350 is 12.3.. you want to dismiss the 1le's fastest time yet ignore that they just had a gt350 test with 3 other cars and another one with just a supra do 12.5. The original 2016-18 gt350 also did A bunch of 12.5s with a long term car doing 12.4.
C&D 2016-18 12.4/12.5
C&D 12.2 gt350r

So again to the original point of the gt350s extra 70 hp not doing much against the ss 1le, at best they are tied at 12.3 (thanks to the 19s psc2's), at worst they are tied at 12.5 with some 12.4s in between.

As far as track times at Laguna Seca, I already stated the biggest advantage the gt350 had were the psc2's, that was the whole point, this proves it. Show me how quick it ran the LS without the psc2's in 2016-18. I know the gt350r is faster, I did not say the ss 1le was faster, the same, or compare it to the R, but it does hold it's own well even in defeat.

Run that down real quick.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Wait now tires are an excuse? All this time we heard the 6th Gen 1LE was so magical its tire advantage wasn't important. Remember that was when the GT was running 275/255 combo. Funny thing is when Ford decided to add a tire as well the GT's PP2 posted a faster LL. So let me get this straight a tire advantage is only acceptable when the Camaro has it.

Your reply is a mess. Look at what you were responding to and try again.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Wait now tires are an excuse? All this time we heard the 6th Gen 1LE was so magical its tire advantage wasn't important. Remember that was when the GT was running 275/255 combo. Funny thing is when Ford decided to add a tire as well the GT's PP2 posted a faster LL. So let me get this straight a tire advantage is only acceptable when the Camaro has it.

You always go to this, different day and different driver lol not even comparable.. and did you even read the article comparing them?

Though different days, what happened when the same driver ran them both at LS? Pp2 got smoked. Read what he said.

How about when throttle house put on the same tires? Pp2 got smoked harder.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Wait now tires are an excuse? All this time we heard the 6th Gen 1LE was so magical its tire advantage wasn't important. Remember that was when the GT was running 275/255 combo. Funny thing is when Ford decided to add a tire as well the GT's PP2 posted a faster LL. So let me get this straight a tire advantage is only acceptable when the Camaro has it.

I think your GT350 has got you so far up Fords butt, you cant even comprehend what you just wrote.

[Laststandard]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

You always go to this, different day and different driver lol not even comparable.. and did you even read the article comparing them?

Though different days, what happened when the same driver ran them both at LS? Pp2 got smoked. Read what he said.

How about when throttle house put on the same tires? Pp2 got smoked harder.

Remember, LL times only count when the Ford is faster.

What I really find amusing is the $130k ZR1 is 3rd on the list, and the $500k Ford supercar is #7. Those guys over at M6G are getting their panties in a twist over Motortrend calling the C8 (and Vettes in general) a supercar, when even the previous gen beat up on the GT.

[Martinjlm]

I really enjoyed this video of the C8 Stingray hitting the track. Very balanced and learned view.

https://youtu.be/nUHNATBzFjE

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

I really enjoyed this video of the C8 Stingray hitting the track. Very balanced and learned view.

https://youtu.be/nUHNATBzFjE

I like Matt Farrah. This review was funny in that, he was giggling like a school girl on her first date when he drove the car. Then when he reviewed his video, he felt the need to backpedal a bit because he realized he was being a bit over emotional. He is a seasoned veteran and the C8 made him feel like it was his frist time in a performance vehcle again. What other car makes people react that way (other than the 6th gen camaro)??

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

I like Matt Farrah. This review was funny in that, he was giggling like a school girl on her first date when he drove the car. Then when he reviewed his video, he felt the need to backpedal a bit because he realized he was being a bit over emotional. He is a seasoned veteran and the C8 made him feel like it was his frist time in a performance vehcle again. What other car makes people react that way (other than the 6th gen camaro)??

His video on the GT350R lol he was more giddy on the C8 video though lol

His C8 video was awesome though, that is someone that loves their job and it was awesome to see the joy the car brought him

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

The only fact there is top speed. Until there is testing out that is just speculation. You may be right, you may be wrong. Don't call something a fact until it is proven true.

I said the fact is that there is a version of the ZL1 that is cheaper than any version of the GT500 but will beat them all at something. Top speed is "something" and it is a fact that the ZL1 will have a higher top speed. So it IS a fact as I called it.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Yes the GT350R and 350 may not be the ultimate in performance per dollar. But there is something I think you seem to overlook. You seem to only look at all out performance as the only factor that matters. ( and if that is all that matters to you or is your most important criteria more power to you) You don't seem to care about any other factors a car offers

Ok well what do other cars, the GT350 in particular, actually offer? The ZL1 came standard with more options and features for a lower price. And it came with better performance. And the LT4 has proven to be more reliable. So what else is there to consider? I'm not talking about BS like how the car makes someone feel or how there is something special about it that words can't describe or any other statements that could be completely made up. What other tangible or measurable factors are there?

Originally Posted by shaffe

C8 may have won Motortrend car of the year but lost to a Hyundai in Road & Track PERFORMANCE car of the year.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...r-of-the-year/

a performance car doesn't have to just offer the best performance- if thats all that matter to you great but to alot of other people its how they feel when driving the car. I am just saying it seems that you seem to overlook that fact and dismiss anyone's opinion that says that is what matters to them by saying a car like the GT350/R is waste because it's not a the best in it's price range. Just saying that's the way it looks. Like I said if for you all out performance is all that matters that's great, if it presses all the right buttons for other people let them enjoy it

LOL, a Hyundai Veloster? Ok. I'll keep that in mind next time I'm at a light and a Hyundai Veloster pulls up next to me. I'll keep in mind that this is the performance car of the year that I'm about to go up against. And hopefully that beastly 275 HP and stump pulling 260 TQ won't overwhelm me.

[bobby35ny]

Originally Posted by shaffe

If you want to be technical it will be the 73,990 GT500 beating the 66,690 A10 ZL1 by 4 tenths.

Carry on lol



Impressive, congrats to GM especially since it was a preproduction car that other mags had little issues with. That is great for GM to win COTY. It was a pretty stacked field this year.



The GT500 was not in the COTY field that's why. MT and the other magazines have not been given test cars yet for the GT500 only the press event Ford held. And even if it was available for testing I don't think it would qualify for COTY as it is just a new trim and not an all new model/generation



No argument there, the C8 is an incredible vehicle.



The only fact there is top speed. Until there is testing out that is just speculation. You may be right, you may be wrong. Don't call something a fact until it is proven true.



Yes the GT350R and 350 may not be the ultimate in performance per dollar. But there is something I think you seem to overlook. You seem to only look at all out performance as the only factor that matters. ( and if that is all that matters to you or is your most important criteria more power to you) You don't seem to care about any other factors a car offers

C8 may have won Motortrend car of the year but lost to a Hyundai in Road & Track PERFORMANCE car of the year.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...r-of-the-year/

a performance car doesn't have to just offer the best performance- if thats all that matter to you great but to alot of other people its how they feel when driving the car. I am just saying it seems that you seem to overlook that fact and dismiss anyone's opinion that says that is what matters to them by saying a car like the GT350/R is waste because it's not a the best in it's price range. Just saying that's the way it looks. Like I said if for you all out performance is all that matters that's great, if it presses all the right buttons for other people let them enjoy it

Example not related to cars, my favorite movie of 2019 was Godzilla King Of The Monsters critics hated it casual movie goers were meh about it, I loved every second of it.

Don't pull a fast one again!!
its a 77k gt500 beating a 58k A10 ZL1 by 4 tenths!
Price PAID Shaffe!!! not a internet number...

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

Don't pull a fast one again!!
its a 77k gt500 beating a 58k A10 ZL1 by 4 tenths!
Price PAID Shaffe!!! not a internet number...

The 4 tenths was me being kind much earlier, the number really is 7-tenths advertised 11:40 for the Camaro vs 10:70 for the 500 Per Chevy and Ford unless they are both lying. Which I am sure many in this forum will accuse them of doing at least on the Ford side .

When is Chevy going to answer back in the form of a Camaro, it's been 4 years since the intro of the 6th Gen everyone else has upped their game. Dodge with the 1320, HC bump in power, RedEye, and Demon, Ford with the 18 GT A10, 2019 GT350 & 2020 GT350R updates, and now the GT500. Its great to see what Chevy has done with the C8 and soon Z06 but what about the Camaro. Is the Camaro dead will there be a 7th Gen? If not at least offer upgrades to the present 6th Gen, I am sure they could easily bump up the power on both the SS and ZL1. Ford has announced they have pushed back their 7th Gen Mustang by several years but they are continually making updates to the present model, as is Dodge with the Challenger and Charger.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

The 4 tenths was me being kind much earlier, the number really is 7-tenths advertised 11:40 for the Camaro vs 10:70 for the 500 Per Chevy and Ford unless they are both lying. Which I am sure many in this forum will accuse them of doing at least on the Ford side .

We'll see which one was lying when they're side by side and the GT500 can't manage better than a low 11 if that. And that is me being kind.

Originally Posted by newmoon

When is Chevy going to answer back in the form of a Camaro

When Ford makes something worth answering to. The GT is a joke and will probably lose around a track to the V6LE. The PP1 is worthless. The PP2 is an overheating pile of junk on race tires. The GT350 is a $60K+ rival to the SLE. The GT350R...for $74K you can buy the most expensive Mustang that happens to also be slower than even the GT and definitely can't match a $64K ZL1. The Base GT500 will be a one-trick pony that won't do a 10.6 unless Evans is driving and every trick is used. The CF GT500 is a $94K joke that Ford needed to build to compete with a $70K ZLE and it will still lose. Nobody here but you and Rocket care about Dodge. So GM doesn't have to respond to Ford because apparently the Mustangs are still struggling against 4 year old cars that cost much much less. GM doesn't even care about Ford at this point. Even a Base $60K C8 is going to beat the GT500 or at least match it. GM is competing with better more worthy rivals since the first year of the S550 saw Mustang GTs struggling against 370Zs and other imports. BTW, that is who you guys needed to answer to. And Camaros don't answer to Ricers or cars that compete with Ricers.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by newmoon

The 4 tenths was me being kind much earlier, the number really is 7-tenths advertised 11:40 for the Camaro vs 10:70 for the 500 Per Chevy and Ford unless they are both lying. Which I am sure many in this forum will accuse them of doing at least on the Ford side .

When is Chevy going to answer back in the form of a Camaro, it's been 4 years since the intro of the 6th Gen everyone else has upped their game. Dodge with the 1320, HC bump in power, RedEye, and Demon, Ford with the 18 GT A10, 2019 GT350 & 2020 GT350R updates, and now the GT500. Its great to see what Chevy has done with the C8 and soon Z06 but what about the Camaro. Is the Camaro dead will there be a 7th Gen? If not at least offer upgrades to the present 6th Gen, I am sure they could easily bump up the power on both the SS and ZL1. Ford has announced they have pushed back their 7th Gen Mustang by several years but they are continually making updates to the present model, as is Dodge with the Challenger and Charger.

You can already tell he's shifting away from publisher times to manufactor claimed times since he fears no magazine will publish a sub 11 (I think sub 11 is possible) or 10.7 for the gt500. Let's not forget to claim the c7 z06 as a 10.9 car whenever you Ford fanboys are claiming it never went 11 in testing.

A power bump would be cool but chevy doesn't have to up anything on the camaro, it's still the over all best sports/pony car in the segment. Dodge has the 1320, which is a one trick pony and I doubt ford or Chevy will answer with their own one trick pony car.

The a10 GT simply caught up to the camaro in straight line performance and still gets beat everywhere else (performance wise). The 2019+ gt350 mostly got track tires as an improvement, it's now faster around a track imagine that, still no faster than an m6 ss straightline. Maybe your suggestion of a power bump was appropriate for the gt350.

The m6 GT is way behind and the pp2 is a cool street car but failed hard against the 1le, and the bullit is a joke.

The gt350r is a great car and Chevy doesn't have a true direct competitor to it, priced like a zl1 but under powered. The zl1 and zl1 1le are more or less competitors to the gt500, but the 500 is really a tier above with more power and costs more. I agree that an lt5 zl1 would be good to make and go against the gt500 but I doubt it's happeneing. Chevy needs to up the zl1's power to compete against the gt500 about as much as ford needs to up the gt350r's power to compare better against the zl1.

At the end of the day these cars can all go exist, the gt350/350r's are overpriced for their performance but people will still buy it for the experience/intangibles and the fact that it's Ford's top tier m6 offering. The zl1 will still be attractive to buyers who want a high power/performance car for a great real world price. Not to mention Chevy wasn't afraid to offer a manual version of the zl1/zl1 1le. You're SOL if wanted a high power m6 Ford.