[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by hotlap

They lost me when Cammisa came out as a crossdresser.

Seriously. All the Mustang vs Camaro H2H have been a mismatched waste of time.

SS vs M4 (skipped the Mustang*)
ZL1 vs GT350R (why**)
1LE vs PP1 (***)

no PP2 vs 1LE
no GT350 vs 1LE (****)
no PP1 vs SS

* would have embarrassed and humiliated Ford
** Why H2H the ZL1 and GT350R if you’re going to judge subjectively on criteria not common to both cars? A grand touring trim vs a track car. Compare ZLE vs GT350R or don’t bother.
***should have let the SS embarrass and humiliate the PP1. The 1LE was overkill
****would have embarrassed and humiliated Ford

1le vs pp2 was don't indirectly when they did the pp2 by itself. I guess the results said that the head to head wasn't necessary lol

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

1le vs pp2 was don't indirectly when they did the pp2 by itself. I guess the results said that the head to head wasn't necessary lol

Indirectly doesn’t cut it.

When MT tested the exact same ZL1 M6 by itself, it was 1.74 seconds faster than when it ran against the GT350R. The same car, on the same track, driven by the same driver. I agree with Blaq. Ford was spared.

I want them to be consistent. Test the ZL1 1LE against the base GT500. M6G logic says the base GT500 will win due to it “huge” power advantage. Then MT can comment subjectively about how much more engaging the ZL1 1LE is as a track car ...plus, the ZLE will destroy the base 500.

Our friend newmoon already set the marker

Originally Posted by newmoon

Maybe but that huge hp/tq advantage the ZL1 enjoys is making a very big impact in all test performance venues.

Originally Posted by newmoon

Why does it need 750-hp? I think the MT shootout already proved the 350R handles better than the ZL1, it just didn't have enough hp. Add 50-rwhp and 50-rwtq to the present setup and IMO it would compete very nicely.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

1le vs pp2 was don't indirectly when they did the pp2 by itself. I guess the results said that the head to head wasn't necessary lol

Actually, it was done directly by Throttle House. https://youtu.be/ifaWMxS1O10

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Indirectly doesn’t cut it.

When MT tested the exact same ZL1 M6, buy itself, it was 1.74 seconds faster than when it ran against the GT350R. The same car, on the same track, driven by the same driver. I agree with Blaq. Ford was spared.

I want them to be consistent. Test the ZL1 1LE against the base GT500. M6G logic says the base GT500 will win due to it “huge” power advantage. Then MT can comment subjectively about how much more engaging the ZL1 1LE is as a track car ...plus, the ZLE will destroy the base 500.

Our friend newmoon already set the marker

Its all a conspiracy against the Camaro. It is impossible that any other car may be considered better. Any review which do not favor the Camaro are lying cheaters. It is impossible that the Camaro could loose, it has to be somebodys fault. Do I have it right?

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Its all a conspiracy against the Camaro. It is impossible that any other car may be considered better. Any review which do not favor the Camaro are lying cheaters. It is impossible that the Camaro could loose, it has to be somebodys fault. Do I have it right?

No one called anyone a liar. Just said the match ups were stupid and sheltered the S550. We haven't seen a H2H that made any sense in this generation because the S550 would have gotten embarrassed.

Are you on board for a ZL1 1LE vs base GT500 H2H? Huge power advantage. 600 HP is more than enough to beat a base ZL1 ...right? 760 HP should destroy the ZLE.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Its all a conspiracy against the Camaro. It is impossible that any other car may be considered better. Any review which do not favor the Camaro are lying cheaters. It is impossible that the Camaro could loose, it has to be somebodys fault. Do I have it right?

Is that not what they did tho? The ZL1 outperformed the GT350R in every category and came in at a cheaper price. Yet they picked the GT350R as the "winner" because they liked it better. If that isn't bias then I don't know what is.

Basically we already know they're going to pick the GT500 as the "winner". Judging by how they've been fapping to everything it does, you can tell they're going to name it the winner. The GT350R which they 2 years ago claimed was such an awesome car and just sounded amazing and looked great and there was just something about it just lost to the GT500 based on performance even tho it lost in performance to the ZL1 but still managed a pity win. So basically MT is just giving the GT500 the win already.

I predict they'll test the Base GT500 against the ZL1 in the quarter mile but then they'll test the CF GT500 against the ZLE in the quarter mile and around a track. Basically they're going to put the GT500 in it's best environment for a victory. They're not going to test the Base around a track. Only on the strip so it can get a win. Then they'll put the CF on the strip for a win and around a track so it can come in close enough so they can declare it the winner. I bet you that's how this plays out. And they'll throw in some bullshit about how amazing the GT500 is and every biased opinion they have so they can give the $95K Mustang a win. But we all know that the only thing the GT500 is going to win against any competition is in the quarter mile against the ZL1. Any and everything else will beat it in everything.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by hotlap

No one called anyone a liar. Just said the match ups were stupid and sheltered the S550. We haven't seen a H2H that made any sense in this generation because the S550 would have gotten embarrassed.

Are you on board for a ZL1 1LE vs base GT500 H2H? Huge power advantage. 600 HP is more than enough to beat a base ZL1 ...right? 760 HP should destroy the ZLE.

You should offer him some salt with those words he is about to eat.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Actually, it was done directly by Throttle House. https://youtu.be/ifaWMxS1O10

Talking strictly about MT Martin, Throttlehouse AND Car & Driver have done straight 1le vs pp2 shoot outs

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Indirectly doesn’t cut it.

When MT tested the exact same ZL1 M6 by itself, it was 1.74 seconds faster than when it ran against the GT350R. The same car, on the same track, driven by the same driver. I agree with Blaq. Ford was spared.

I want them to be consistent. Test the ZL1 1LE against the base GT500. M6G logic says the base GT500 will win due to it “huge” power advantage. Then MT can comment subjectively about how much more engaging the ZL1 1LE is as a track car ...plus, the ZLE will destroy the base 500.

Our friend newmoon already set the marker

Yea I guess it would have been nice. My only problem with MT is why they get consistently slower times out of the ss than road and track or car and driver do. M6's over at the other publications consistently get 12.3 1/4s but MT only ever manages 12.4-12.5. Yet with the mustang they get the same 12.6 the other guys get, wonder if they're using California limited 91 vs the better 93 our cars prefer and that's making a slight difference.

At least C&D put the 1le vs the pp2 directly.

That last quote about the gt350r handling better than the zl1 is funny because the other day I reread the written article of the gt350r vs the zl1 and in Chris Walton's notes he goes on to say the ss 1le handles better than the gt350r and zl1.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Is that not what they did tho? The ZL1 outperformed the GT350R in every category and came in at a cheaper price. Yet they picked the GT350R as the "winner" because they liked it better. If that isn't bias then I don't know what is.

Basically we already know they're going to pick the GT500 as the "winner". Judging by how they've been fapping to everything it does, you can tell they're going to name it the winner. The GT350R which they 2 years ago claimed was such an awesome car and just sounded amazing and looked great and there was just something about it just lost to the GT500 based on performance even tho it lost in performance to the ZL1 but still managed a pity win. So basically MT is just giving the GT500 the win already.

I predict they'll test the Base GT500 against the ZL1 in the quarter mile but then they'll test the CF GT500 against the ZLE in the quarter mile and around a track. Basically they're going to put the GT500 in it's best environment for a victory. They're not going to test the Base around a track. Only on the strip so it can get a win. Then they'll put the CF on the strip for a win and around a track so it can come in close enough so they can declare it the winner. I bet you that's how this plays out. And they'll throw in some bullshit about how amazing the GT500 is and every biased opinion they have so they can give the $95K Mustang a win. But we all know that the only thing the GT500 is going to win against any competition is in the quarter mile against the ZL1. Any and everything else will beat it in everything.

If that is the way it plays out, then to me MT loses any credibility to me. At least when the 350 came out, they tested the 350, 350R and Z/28 all on the same day same track

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by shaffe

If that is the way it plays out, then to me MT loses any credibility to me. At least when the 350 came out, they tested the 350, 350R and Z/28 all on the same day same track

What do we know already. We know that the BASE GT500 will absolutely smoke a ZL1 regardless of trim in the 1/4 mile. Whether its 4-tenths or 7-tenths its a significant beating.

What we don't know is whether or not a BASE 500 will beat a standard ZL1 around a track. My guess is yes based on how the R was so close the ZL1 in the prior H2H, I think the BASE 500 will be faster than the R. That 200+hp advantage is going to show up in the lap times over the prior R.

[Baldilocks01SS]

Originally Posted by newmoon

What do we know already. We know that the BASE GT500 will absolutely smoke a ZL1 regardless of trim in the 1/4 mile. Whether its 4-tenths or 7-tenths its a significant beating.

What we don't know is whether or not a BASE 500 will beat a standard ZL1 around a track. My guess is yes based on how the R was so close the ZL1 in the prior H2H, I think the BASE 500 will be faster than the R. That 200+hp advantage is going to show up in the lap times over the prior R.

GM no longer cares about the pony car war. Their focus and only performance focus is the Corvette. They may prove me wrong with some updates to the interior or power levels, but until then, the current Camaro is a dead horse.

However: https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=565336

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by newmoon

What do we know already. We know that the BASE GT500 will absolutely smoke a ZL1 regardless of trim in the 1/4 mile. Whether its 4-tenths or 7-tenths its a significant beating.

What we don't know is whether or not a BASE 500 will beat a standard ZL1 around a track. My guess is yes based on how the R was so close the ZL1 in the prior H2H, I think the BASE 500 will be faster than the R. That 200+hp advantage is going to show up in the lap times over the prior R.

You're the biggest Ford fanboy troll there is.

Horsepower matters but the gt350s 70ish horsepower advantage didn't do much for its performance over the ss 1le, straight line or lap times. Getting psc2's on the 19's made a bigger difference for that car than the horsepower. A gt350r with psc2's might put up more of a fight than you're assuming against the base gt500 on ps4's, it shouldn't but it just might.

Cool how .4 is a significant beating now vs a car with 110 less hp, but when we were discussing the more or less equal power m6 ss's 12.2/12.3 vs the m6 GT's 12.6+ that .3-.4+ wasn't significant.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

You're the biggest Ford fanboy troll there is.

Horsepower matters but the gt350s 70ish horsepower advantage didn't do much for its performance over the ss 1le, straight line or lap times. Getting psc2's on the 19's made a bigger difference for that car than the horsepower. A gt350r with psc2's might put up more of a fight than you're assuming against the base gt500 on ps4's, it shouldn't but it just might.

Cool how .4 is a significant beating now vs a car with 110 less hp, but when we were discussing the more or less equal power m6 ss's 12.2/12.3 vs the m6 GT's 12.6+ that .3-.4+ wasn't significant.

All good points.

Also. In 2016 and 2017, the 0.5 sec advantage that the A8 SS had over the A6 GT was called a "driver's race" by Ford Fans.