[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Laststandard

And they're the same guys who pointed to the 3LT C8 being tested with 90K msrp saying "See! GM was lying when they said the C8 was 60k!!111!"

Very true! Also want to use to official msrp, but then use "official" magazine zl1 times vs what some guy on a private track on a mission did for the gt500.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by RagingHawk

Lol ... with that camera angle in the video I saw it looked downhill. After seeing other videos, it's flat track up to the 1/4 mile then becomes uphill. So it doesn't affect acceleration. No excuses here.




I am not in a market for a new car. Although for those that are, we all know lot's of people getting in Hellcats and ZL1's are putting aside a good chunk of their income to afford them. So going from 65K loan to a 100K loan can break the bank for a lot of the consumer market for these cars.



Yes, we said GM made the same or better handling car for a lot less. I bet you the standard ZL1 will out handle the base GT500. While costing 15K less. The GT500 will win in a straight line which was expected as Ford doesn't restrict the Mustang and is trying to market the car as a really solid drag car.

So where do you think we are wrong? I personally already said I don't care for 1/4 mile times. I value acceleration, and 650HP/650TQ is plenty for me. Ford realized the car community value HP/1/4 mile too much and thus put a giant supercharger twice the size of the Camaro one to get 760HP(likely underrated too) coupled with a DCT and a drag mode meant to get perfect launches at the strip. In doing so, automotive journalists managed to get an 11.1 1/4 time which is impressive. The A10 ZL1 get's like an 11.4. That's not a big difference to me.

And I prefer a manual anyway. And if I was in the market for a new muscle car, I'd go with the manual ZL1 for the fun factor, value, looks and overall balance of the chassis.

The gt500 and zl1 can coexist... the manual option you mentioned definitely helps the zl1s case... I'm interested to see not just the zl1s 1le vs the cftp but the zl1 vs the base as well.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Thank you. $8K is close enough to not sway my purchase decision. Now to see overall performance, and hopefully a manual option in coming MY's. I dont care much for 1/4 mile, but acceleration is still important. Interested in how the 500 base compares on track.

One thing I dont understand. IF the base is faster on track than the ZL1, then it is faster than the GT350R too. Why on earth would anyone buy an R, when they can smoke one in a 500 for the exact same price?

I wonder if the track results arent closer to this:

GT350<Base 500<GT350R<ZL1<ZL1 1LE<CFTP 500.

I really just listed them based on MSRP(roughly), and assuming the price is set based on performance since the 2 Ford cars are sold on the same floor at the same time.

I really am just trying to see how they fit considering MSRP. Sure the GT350 will feel better on track without the huge blower, and it has a manual transmission, but the buyers of these cars wont be swayed by that I dont think.

Those track results should be interesting.

I don't think a manual option is coming sadly, all the ford reps seem to indicate that the dct is best for speed and they wanted to make it as fast as possible, seems the manual is left for the gt350s. Manual s550s have underwhelmed in 1/4 but the gt500 with a tremec 6060 or 7070 could change that since it has no low end grunt deficit to contend with long gearing.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by LostM

I promise you ive done more racing in 1 year than you have your whole life.

would you like to place a bet? If the c8 beats gt500 same day same track. i leave. if the c8 loses, you leave this section, never to return

good try

You have done so much racing yet fail to see that the 11.1 the c8 did was not on a prepped track with multiple cars being ran over and over to get the best times.

The gt500 should be able to beat the c8, but to think the c8 can't win is retarded. For every 10.8 and 10.9 there were more than twice as many 11.2+ times ran as well.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

It may play out on track as you said, thats how I think it is likely to play out also. As for 350R v 500, I guess I can try and see someone make that decision. LOL, I just can't stop thinking of someone in a showroom with both cars same price, right next to each other, just test driven both, gonna choose the 350R for the manual?!?! I just cant see it happening in real life.

I just sold my M3 with a DCT. Loved the car, the motor really. Changed the Rod Bearings and everything, intending to keep it long term, and just got bored with the DCT. I can't shake the itch for a third pedal, nothing against the DCT as its the best 2 pedal driving experience I have ever had. Both would do just fine one day lol.

I just watched Engineering Explained's video on the gt500 and as much as he praised the gt500 he'd still take the gt350 for the voodoo, manual, and weight. There are definately some purist out there that will take a 350 over a 500 all day, I would. M6 ftw.

[rocket403]

Just looked at the cost to get a GT500 in Canada the base price is 94k with the track package and one other option puts the Base price to 102k to add the Carbon package to the 500 it would come to 126k, compare that to the Redeye with the plus package it is 102k. The C8 is not yet listed for Canada so the top Camaro is 84k with the 10sp.
Top 2019 Vette is 161K with the Auto.

Not sure about any ADM's on the 500 but my guess is that they will not be near the MSRP for the 1st year unless you have connections, with the Camaro and Challenger i'm sure that you would be able to pick them up for less.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

You have done so much racing yet fail to see that the 11.1 the c8 did was not on a prepped track with multiple cars being ran over and over to get the best times.

The gt500 should be able to beat the c8, but to think the c8 can't win is retarded. For every 10.8 and 10.9 there were more than twice as many 11.2+ times ran as well.

He does all that drag racing and he has a GT500 on order for $2K under MSRP.

Only an idiot would fail to understand the difference between the absolute best a car can do (Evans special private track 10.6 - 10.8), and what it will do when tested under magazine parameters (11.07 - 11.3). Anyone who thinks the GT500 is a 10.6 under normal conditions with any driver at any time anywhere is a fool. And anyone who doesn't think that a C8 Z51 which ran 11.1 can't beat a GT500 when both are under the same mag testing is an even bigger fool. He is in for some serious heart break.

[Bosse'sBoss]

The C8 Z51 is not on the performance league of neither the Shelby GT500 nor of the Camaro ZL1. I would like to see the C8 Z51 VS the previous C7 GS or the Camaro SS1LE or the actual Shelby GT350. I'm not sure that it would be able to compete VS the Shelby GT350R

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by LostM

66,600 for ZL1 to equal base GT500, and thats with $1500 in allowances.

Like i said, its not that far off. If 8k makes or breaks you financially, you shouldnt be buying either one

You need to add Recaros and the entertainment package to the GT500 to match a base ZL1 to be equal. The GT500 to match the ZL1 feature to feature will be near $80K

[GuywithL86]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

He does all that drag racing and he has a GT500 on order for $2K under MSRP.

Only an idiot would fail to understand the difference between the absolute best a car can do (Evans special private track 10.6 - 10.8), and what it will do when tested under magazine parameters (11.07 - 11.3). Anyone who thinks the GT500 is a 10.6 under normal conditions with any driver at any time anywhere is a fool. And anyone who doesn't think that a C8 Z51 which ran 11.1 can't beat a GT500 when both are under the same mag testing is an even bigger fool. He is in for some serious heart break.

Gt500 will be just like a slightly slower dodge demon, there’s not a shred of doubt in my mind after watching all the attempts. It will have a ton of traction issues off the line.

It will probably run anywhere from 10.4 to 11.5 depending on driver, DA, track prep. Just like the demon it will be highly sensitive to that stuff. If you can’t get it to squat it will be slow, if you can it will rip.

[Laststandard]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

Very true! Also want to use to official msrp, but then use "official" magazine zl1 times vs what some guy on a private track on a mission did for the gt500.

Hypocrisy at it's finest. Couple of the guys over there like to tout the GM conspiracy theory that they rig tests and provide tweaked cars, yet have no problem with that 10.6 run even though it was a pre-production car, private track rental, and probably using every trick in the book.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

I just watched Engineering Explained's video on the gt500 and as much as he praised the gt500 he'd still take the gt350 for the voodoo, manual, and weight. There are definately some purist out there that will take a 350 over a 500 all day, I would. M6 ftw.

Absolutely, and I would for all those reasons too, just NOT an R. I think the 500 will eat in to R sales. I also think you will see non-R 350's sales price getting more flexible and they already have a bit.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Technically, they paid whatever they paid for the 5th Gen PLUS whatever they added onto the price of the trade in. So if they paid $53K for the 5th Gen, and then traded it in with $30K on top, they technically paid $83K. That is how money works my friend.

Technically we are both right if you really want to argue semantics lol. I am not sure how it works in your state but here in IL one of the few things they have right is when you trade a car in.

Yes you are correct you will have paid for the first vehicle, and you are using equity in that vehicle to lower the price of the new vehicle. Here in il if you are buying a 70K you pay sales tax on 70K dollar sale price. If you trade in a car worth 30K you are only getting taxed on the remaining sales price of the car which would be 40K so technically according to the state and all the accompanying paperwork the final sale price, the price you paid for this car would be 40k for this particular example lol.

Like I said it's totally semantics and if you want to say no chance I get it lol That's just how I would personally look at it and here in IL how it much it would show actually paying

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Thank you. $8K is close enough to not sway my purchase decision. Now to see overall performance, and hopefully a manual option in coming MY's. I dont care much for 1/4 mile, but acceleration is still important. Interested in how the 500 base compares on track.

One thing I dont understand. IF the base is faster on track than the ZL1, then it is faster than the GT350R too. Why on earth would anyone buy an R, when they can smoke one in a 500 for the exact same price?

I wonder if the track results arent closer to this:

GT350<Base 500<GT350R<ZL1<ZL1 1LE<CFTP 500.

I really just listed them based on MSRP(roughly), and assuming the price is set based on performance since the 2 Ford cars are sold on the same floor at the same time.

I really am just trying to see how they fit considering MSRP. Sure the GT350 will feel better on track without the huge blower, and it has a manual transmission, but the buyers of these cars wont be swayed by that I dont think.

It is very odd to me that they are offering both of them at the same time.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by shaffe

It is very odd to me that they are offering both of them at the same time.

Damn this thread exploded in the last few days! I find it odd they are offering both Shelbys as well. Why have the 350 since the 500 with 240 more horsepower SHOULD be faster. Especially since at MSRP the 350R is more than a 500.