[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

OK, I didn't ignore it. In fact I mentioned it first before the slower tests back in my original post about all of this. I ultimately said with the SS you might be getting the 12.3 car, or a 12.5 car. With the GT you're getting a 12.6 car. The same applies for the autos, with the GT coming out as the faster version.

I feel like people aren't getting my original point about all of this - which was the argument that all SS (M6 or auto) are equal in straight line speed, which they don't appear to be based on the e.t. range (12.2-12.5) and trap speed (113-118 mph). I'm not trying to argue which car is faster. That's all been decided already.

You misunderstood my post when you replied (below). I didn’t intended to claim equivalency of the SS M6 and SS A8/A10. I was extending Martinjlm’s point about the “fastest SS in any trim” is on any dealer lot ...because they are all the same. ...trim being A8, A10 or M6 because we don’t have SS* (Chevy distinguished lesser equipped V8’s with the LT1 designation). I extended that observation to the stop light.

Furthermore, I noted that for $37k you can buy a track ready SS M6 with a Tremec, aux engine cooling, Trans/diff. coolers... You need to spend $60k on a GT350 to get a Tremec and cooling. Even there, Ford was shamed into it after the 2015/2016s were exposed as overheating during parade laps.

Finally. Since the SS is unchanged since 2016, the GT’s are outnumbered because the GT* is rare, 2015–2017 GT’s and 2018-2019 GT M6 will get wasted by any SS with a good driver. Regular GT A10 on all season tires - wasted. Regular GT A10 on good tires I’d bet on the SS A10 and want to know who the drivers are against the SS M6.

Sorry for missing all the fun by posting this late. I’m in the States so I had to work during the day.

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

The fastest SS in any trim can be found on any dealers lot on any day. The fastest GT trim has to be special ordered because most dealers don’t stock them and most Mustang buyers don’t buy them and probably don’t even know that they need the A10 and PP1 because it’s that deep a configuration. Mustang buyers who don’t live on forums will be fine with buying a GT off the dealers lot, then wonder why they can’t outrun their neighbor’s SS like newmoon says they can.

And heaven help them if they buy an M6 and plan to outrun an SS without modding it first. I found out in a thread on M6G that my SS convertible consistently outruns a Bullitt (Getrag M6) at the same track. I know, not the same day, same driver, but why would this even be close? The Bullitt is lighter and has 480 hp to my 455.

Originally Posted by hotlap

The fastest SS in any trim is also what you’ll be rolling up to at the light. 2016 on. All with summer only performance tires, heavy duty auxiliary engine cooling, transmission and differential coolers, Brembo brakes at all corners with cooling ducts.

Starting MSRP - $37,000 with a Tremec 6-speed. Rated and warrantied for strip or track use.

No need to buy a $60k trim to get a decent transmission, tires, cooling... A fantastic performance value ...then there are the SS 1LE, ZL1, ZL1 1LE.

Despite the S550’s sales lead since 2015, the GT is seriously outnumbered

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

I dispute the 12.2 for an M6 SS referenced in that Mustang article - I still contend it was a typo. There is no actual test showing the M6 SS going 12.2 that I can find. The fastest actual magazine test for an M6 SS is 12.3 @ 118 mph (C&D long term result both new and used). However, that was only one car, could have been a ringer, as no other M6 SS could duplicate it, all the other M6 SS tests are a 12.4 and multiple 12.5 tests. No other SS M6 test has even surpassed 115 mph that I referenced above (except the SLE has once, however, even though it's "slower" than the standard SS) and one was only 113.4 mph (R&T). 113 to 118 mph is a big range in trap speed for the same model car.

The 12.3 SS (not SLE) seems like a ringer SS, particularly the trap speed (118 mph). I think they have been able to duplicate the time but only with an SLE at 12.3 @ 116 mph in the recent PP2 vs 1LE C&D test. But there's also SLEs running 12.5 like Motor Trend tested.

I think if anything this proves like I said earlier, you might get a 12.3 sec SS/SLE or a 12.5 sec SS/SLE. You might get a 12.2 sec A10 SS, or a 12.4 sec A10 SS.

With the GT, the published tests have been consistent. 12.1 from both MT and C&D for A10 GT, and 12.6 for the M6 GT. Like I said, 1st and 4th, or 2nd and 3rd?

Observation.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

I agree with pretty much everything you said except the part about GT or gt* not mattering. They do because there is quite a large discrepancy between a GT a10 pp1 and a GT m6, over half a second no doubt. So while the "gt*" is possibly the fastest by a tenth or two it is not across the board for the mustang gt. This matters to guys who look for manual transmission cars because at that point the tables turn and the ss is 1 to 3+ tenths faster, and it matters to guys who have a a10 pp1 like Idaho because they have the fastest straight line car in the mustang line up and quite possible the whole pony car segment. That tenth or two is bragging rights, especially if the car is worse at every other performance metric lol. I have friends and family with m6 GTs and those with the pp1 vs the base know they have the bragging rights with their 3.73s, for car guys it's all about splitting hairs lol.

I didn't say it doesn't matter. I said I personally don't care if it is a GT or a GT*. The fact remains that a GT can be optioned to where it is faster than the SS in a straight line by 1-2 tenths at best. If at it's best and when optioned specifically the GT can beat a SS by nothing more than a driver's race then I am willing to give them that. If someone wants to brag about something like that then fine by me. If it was more than 2 tenths and not on some specially optioned Mustang and not by only certain magazines and only at certain times of the year and on certain tracks then I'd be impressed. But when things have to be laid out in a certain pattern to get the desired result and those results can be altered by driver skill level then there is nothing to even discuss.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

1-2 Tenths in a quarter mile race is not anything special between two competing cars. Not to me. The 1st Gen Coyotes were about 2 tenths faster than the 5th Gen Camaros due to having less weight and a SRA. However the Camaro was and is the better car. Then for 2015 the GT gained weight when it went to IRS and got slower despite a HP jump. In 16 the Camaro slayed the GT by over half a second. So the GT got heavily revamped and is back in a 1-2 tenth lead. But this is all straight lines and like I said, anyone can build a fast straight line car. That is why the WRXs, Evos, and 370Zs were keeping up with the Mustang GTs for a while. Building a car that can track well is what determines the superior car these days. More specifically, building a car that can track AND works well in the quarter mile AND you don't have to break the bank is what sets cars apart.

So if the GT is faster than the SS by 1 tenth then that is hardly praiseworthy these days. I don't care if it is a GT or GT*, the Mustang is faster. But again, it is only by 1-2 tenths if that. That means a lot to people like newmoon but ultimately it is such an insignificant amount that you'd have to be petty to even bring it up.

Ford and Dodge's problem is that they can only keep up in one aspect and that is straight lines. Once curves are throw in the Dodges are MIA and the Fords either cost a fortune, lose a significant amount of straight line performance, or overheat. The Camaros and Corvettes however continue to do everything extremely well which is notable. Which is why I say that GM really has no competition. Not when the closest thing to compare to them from Ford and Dodge usually costs several thousands more and are limited in what they can do.

Are you comparing GT to SS-1LE? The comparisons should be SS - PP1, and SS 1LE to PP2. Other than the PP2 not having proper cooling do you really think it would be that much slower on a track, same with the SS - PP1.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

. But like I said, the Ford GT doubled it's value in just 2-3 years. It went from being a $130K vehicle to being worth $250K minimum for even a well driven sample. People think these cars these days will do that and they are wrong.
.

Looks like the new Ford GT's are continuing that trend, except this time they have almost tripled in value The 2 year no sale clause is up so some people are selling them now. One just sold at Barret Jackson for 1.54 million, another one with 400 miles on it sold for 1.24 million


But then again, as if the people that got on the list to buy on need more money lol

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Are you comparing GT to SS-1LE? The comparisons should be SS - PP1, and SS 1LE to PP2. Other than the PP2 not having proper cooling do you really think it would be that much slower on a track, same with the SS - PP1.

I mostly agree with you but really any SS vs GT variation is fair game. The pair ups you listed do line up best performance and set up wise, but even then they're equipped differently. The regular SS was about .83 quicker than the GT pp1 around streets of willow, that's pretty substantial in a small track, especially from a car that can do it more consistently. The pp2 is pretty close to the ss 1le, and while fair because it's factory equipment, the R compound psc2s definitely contribute to that.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Looks like the new Ford GT's are continuing that trend, except this time they have almost tripled in value The 2 year no sale clause is up so some people are selling them now. One just sold at Barret Jackson for 1.54 million, another one with 400 miles on it sold for 1.24 million


But then again, as if the people that got on the list to buy on need more money lol

I know it might not be the absolute best performing supercar but man is the Ford GT a slick looking car, from how low it sits to the giant flying buttress'. Seeing it next to other super cars it really stands out as somethibg special. So with the low numbers and how special it is I can see why it commands such a premium now among collectors and the super wealthy.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by RobbyBeefcake87

I know it might not be the absolute best performing supercar but man is the Ford GT a slick looking car, from how low it sits to the giant flying buttress'. Seeing it next to other super cars it really stands out as somethibg special. So with the low numbers and how special it is I can see why it commands such a premium now among collectors and the super wealthy.

I can't...it underperforms, sounds terrible, isn't built by Ford, etc. (I have plenty more reasons).

What drives its value it exclusivity and low production numbers. There are 100 other cars or more I would own before I even paid MSRP for a Multimatic GT. Then again, I'm not in the financial position to do so, so most who do will use it as an investment tool...and I can't blame them for that.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Are you comparing GT to SS-1LE? The comparisons should be SS - PP1, and SS 1LE to PP2. Other than the PP2 not having proper cooling do you really think it would be that much slower on a track, same with the SS - PP1.

When the LT1 trim is available this makes sense. But until then the SS is the SS. That is the lowest trim V8. But generally I dont have a problem comparing the SS to the PP1. Personally, I think the PP1 should come on all GT Mustangs as standard equipment.

The PP2 for a few laps is competitive with a 1LE. I dont think anyone here is disputing that. What is talked about is the lack of coolers. Almost anyone buying a PP2 is best served by either adding aftermarket coolers or changing the tires for street driving.

I dont think a PP1 is setup very well for tracking.

[Martinjlm]

Gonna be a fun couple of days. The orange one is mine tonight and most of tomorrow. The blue one goes home with me tomorrow and I’ll return it Friday.

[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Gonna be a fun couple of days. The orange one is mine tonight and most of tomorrow. The blue one goes home with me tomorrow and I’ll return it Friday.

And by "goes home with you" you mean by way of Waterford Hills, right?

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Gunkk

And by "goes home with you" you mean by way of Waterford Hills, right?

I promised not to take it to Milan, but now that you mention it, WH never came up. Hmmmmm

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Are you comparing GT to SS-1LE? The comparisons should be SS - PP1, and SS 1LE to PP2. Other than the PP2 not having proper cooling do you really think it would be that much slower on a track, same with the SS - PP1.

What do you mean by "that much slower"? I'm surprised to hear that from you of all people since you continue to bring up the 1 tenth of a second difference between the GT* and the standard SS in the quarter mile. Slower is slower.

I'll agree that the plain GT with no add-ons is no match for anything other than the V6 1LE Camaro. Therefore it is unfair to match it to the SS. The GT without PP1 shouldn't even exist because it is not built to race in any capacity. It is an aftermarket special vehicle. It was built for people who want to buy a cheap car and then mod it up. Or for folks who just want a V8 that sounds good and can be driven at 60 MPH on the highway. So the only way to be fair is to match the GT with the PP1 upgrade to the base SS. And it still falls short. The PP2 falls short of the SLE. The GT350 and GT350R cannot be matched to either of the ZL1s because that is not fair to the Shelbys. So the SLE would have to handle the Shelbys and the PP2. The SLE can beat the 350 and can either stay close to or beat the R depending on the track. Which means the GT500 has to be paired to the ZL1 and I say bring it. I await the results and I think we're going to see the ZL1 whether standard or with the 1LE do spectacularly well.

Basically before long the Mustang will be on it's 78th revision or 90th trim level before it can match the Camaro fairly.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

I can't...it underperforms, sounds terrible, isn't built by Ford, etc. (I have plenty more reasons).

What drives its value it exclusivity and low production numbers. There are 100 other cars or more I would own before I even paid MSRP for a Multimatic GT. Then again, I'm not in the financial position to do so, so most who do will use it as an investment tool...and I can't blame them for that.

Yea I meant more from the perspective of a rich collector looking to invest in it. I do think it's absolutely beautiful but it does unferperform to some degree and that v6 is unforgivable now that you reminded me lol