[newmoon]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

This is the version that is exciting to me, so I fully agree with you.

I'm not a track rat, i couldn't afford to spend a couple thousand dollars on entry fees, track insurance, tires, and brake pads for a day or weekend. Drag racing is much more appealing, $25.00 entry fee, a set of DRs to last you the season and your good to go. The base is all that is needed.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I'm not a track rat, i couldn't afford to spend a couple thousand dollars on entry fees, track insurance, tires, and brake pads for a day or weekend. Drag racing is much more appealing, $25.00 entry fee, a set of DRs to last you the season and your good to go. The base is all that is needed.

And without all the extra aero should be the better car for that I'd assume, though the carbon wheels help.

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I'm not a track rat, i couldn't afford to spend a couple thousand dollars on entry fees, track insurance, tires, and brake pads for a day or weekend. Drag racing is much more appealing, $25.00 entry fee, a set of DRs to last you the season and your good to go. The base is all that is needed.

This ^. I did have a suspension worked over LS3 5th gen I tracked for a day at Millville. That was a blast. Especially running down a Corvette or 2 among the beginners once I started to get the hang of it. The cost was $300 and I vastly shortened the life of my brake pads and tires.

At that time I did not understand the mandatory (common sense mandatory) Track insurance. So just that one day for a rather slow track car should have been $500 for maybe 20 laps of beginner driving.

Also once we start talking about supercars like the ZL1 that number goes way up considering you can easily use up your tires and pads with all day blistering fun. So add $1,600 minimum if you change the pads yourself. And then spend a few hours bleeding the brakes.

And if you are going to drive a car like even the base ZL1 at 8-9 Tenths you BETTER know what you are doing or hopefully you do not meet a wall when you leave the track.

I found this out first hand when my friend flipped over my TT 1LE at Millville. This was supposed to be a couple of fun laps. But my friend accidently met the turbo rush coming out of the first turn at maybe 60 MPH, ran off the track and flipped the car over. I watched this happen from the infield.

Luckily he was fine and his son the doctor sewed up his arm at the track. Looking back I was an idiot to let him take that car on the track. His Mustang runs low 10 seconds at the drag strip and he is good with that but on a race track it is another big step up in driver skill and the dynamic awarenes of the forces of gravity on the car.

And I did not have Track insurance! I threw myslf at the mercy of my insurance and just explained the whole true story. Much to every one's surprise they covered my stock value 1LE. I probably only lost about $15K but I could have lost a friend.

As an aside this track is in NJ and a guy with us had a towing company said to me "I can make that car disappear." I declined but thanked him for the offer. This is NJ!

So tracking supercars is for the well off with disposable cash who aren't bothered by a $2,000+ fun day and have the intensity to approach speeds on a track among real racing speeds.

So yes drag racing is a fun pass time for the rest of us with more reasonable risk and cost. We just have to worry about getting out of it when we are spinning near the line and hope there was not an oil spill on the big end. And a bad day is only a tow and some new axles.

And I also agree I think the track level GT500 with beat the ZL1 1LE. But it won't be by much. That is a high bar for a heavier looser car.

But $10,000 painted stripes? LOL, those are there for Mecum eye candy auctions in 10 years. But it is cool they are offering that.

[wnta1ss]

The GT500, even if it was available at the MSRP of ~74k to 94k+, would already be noticeably more expensive than the ZL1. When you consider what really matters, which is the actual pricing that you will get at the dealer when you go to buy one, then it really falls significantly behind the ZL1 as far as performance for the dollar value. I have talked to an S550 GT350 owner, and he got a price of 105k from the dealer to order a GT500. Obscenely overpriced for a 'muscle car'.

[BlaqWhole]

When 60 minutes lasts a day and a half...

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

When 60 minutes lasts a day and a half...

I was starting to think that TRAN missed a payment so they turned the power off.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

The GT500, even if it was available at the MSRP of ~74k to 94k+, would already be noticeably more expensive than the ZL1. When you consider what really matters, which is the actual pricing that you will get at the dealer when you go to buy one, then it really falls significantly behind the ZL1 as far as performance for the dollar value. I have talked to an S550 GT350 owner, and he got a price of 105k from the dealer to order a GT500. Obscenely overpriced for a 'muscle car'.

An auto ZL1 starts at nearly $67k with dest., etc. $74k (with dest.) for the GT500 with it's additional 110 hp and a DCT is not that far fetched. I have heard of some people getting a base GT500 for msrp.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by hotlap

I was starting to think that TRAN missed a payment so they turned the power off.

LOL, I would have made some donations to keep the lights on!!

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

An auto ZL1 starts at nearly $67k with dest., etc. $74k (with dest.) for the GT500 with it's additional 110 hp and a DCT is not that far fetched. I have heard of some people getting a base GT500 for msrp.

So an extra $7K for a trans, lol!! Ok.

Hearing things and those things actually being true are completely different. I doubt anyone is getting one at MSRP.

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

An auto ZL1 starts at nearly $67k with dest., etc. $74k (with dest.) for the GT500 with it's additional 110 hp and a DCT is not that far fetched. I have heard of some people getting a base GT500 for msrp.

Like I said, even at MSRP, the GT500 at an extra 7305 dollars is noticeably higher. And remember the extra rated 110hp has to deal with a heavier car, which will hinder all aspects of performance, not just acceleration.

Focusing on MSRP for these 2 cars is dishonest by the way. Chevy dealers are known to give good deals, which means the ZL1 will not cost full MSRP. Whereas Ford dealers are known at the launch of a new fake Shelby (see S550 GT350) to charge ADM. So the true difference in price between these 2 will probably be quite significant in the real world.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

Like I said, even at MSRP, the GT500 at an extra 7305 dollars is noticeably higher. And remember the extra rated 110hp has to deal with a heavier car, which will hinder all aspects of performance, not just acceleration.

Focusing on MSRP for these 2 cars is dishonest by the way. Chevy dealers are known to give good deals, which means the ZL1 will not cost full MSRP. Whereas Ford dealers are known at the launch of a new fake Shelby (see S550 GT350) to charge ADM. So the true difference in price between these 2 will probably be quite significant in the real world.

The problem is that first off you have to find a dealer that will be getting one and then get on their list before anyone else does. Most likely the dealership will get one or two. At that point you have to find out if the dealership is going to charge a markup. If they are and you are adamant about not paying ADMs then you'll have to start all over again. At which point you won't be first in line. And then if by luck you do get first in line a second time the chances that the new dealership won't charge a markup is astronomical. In fact they might even be charging more than the original dealer was. And at that point you will not be getting on any other lists. So you're pretty much stuck at the dealer's mercy. And they all are charging markups. Why wouldn't they when people were arguing back and forth about how the GT350R was worth the extra money? This here is the GT500. If the 350R was worth $75K, $85K then then Base GT500 would certainly fetch more than that. And if they aren't charging a markup then they're charging for the allocation purchase and that money does not go towards the price of the GT500. So I'm betting people will be paying $80K minimum for a Base if not more. Meanwhile our "heavily discounted" ZL1s and ZLEs can be had for mid to low $60K brand new because "nobody wants them". LOL!! Even at MSRP the GT500 still has over $7K worth of money that Ford put into it. So at the price it really needs to beat the ZLE.

If (when) the ZL1/ZLE beats the GT500 on a track I think people will realize just how good these cars are and that might spike sales. Because if the CF GT500 can't beat the ZLE then nothing Ford makes under half a million dollars can beat it, lol!! And at the curb weight and weight distribution of the GT500 I doubt it will beat the ZLE and I don't care how long Ford has been benchmarking it.

BTW, why is the GT500 soo heavy? It has all that CF and shit. Why is that thing over 4000 pounds to begin with? And after all this time they couldn't manage to distribute the weight more evenly?

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

I don't think that will be the case. I fully expect the CFTP version of the GT500 to beat the standard ZL1, and it might even beat the ZLE (I'm talking about road course here). It all comes down to aero. There is a big HP increase with the GT500CFTP, add in the carbon fiber wheels , the DCT, as well as the big brakes. If there is enough aero, it could carry enough speed through big sweeping turns, AND us the HP advantage on the big straights. Obviously, it depends on the track, but I think the CFTP can do it. Ford hasn't been sitting around doing nothing the last couple of years. This car is late for a reason, they were still trying to meet their metrics. Now that it's finnaly out, it should win.

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

Well stated. This is pretty much what I expect to see.

I actually hope the CFTP GT500 can beat the ZLE A10...it's a complete fail if it doesn't. I expect it to beat the ZL1 on a long, straight track...I am on the fence about all technical tracks.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

LOL, I would have made some donations to keep the lights on!!

So an extra $7K for a trans, lol!! Ok.

Hearing things and those things actually being true are completely different. I doubt anyone is getting one at MSRP.

I think Ford dealers are realizing that they can't put Dealer ADM on the GT500s with the C8 hype. More and more I'm hearing of dealers calling potential GT500 owners offering allocations at MSRP because people just are not lining up for them like they thought. The C8 has taken away a lot of potential GT500 buyers.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

The weight is still a bit much for me. I know a lot of people don't care, or say they don't, but over 4200 pounds is insanity. This is the reason a Hellcat has never been on my list, even though they are very affordable in the used market and pretty awesome.

Excited to see the reviews of the driving feel nonetheless. Will wait and see if Ford can pull it off, but I think in the end of the day the weight will prove too much for my liking. I think I could justify a used one later on, but $75K for 4200+...nah...

And yes, no manual......no thanks. Had a DCT, and while awesome it was also boring. Perfect for a performance sedan/SUV etc....but I have to have some gears to row in my performance coupes. First car was a stick('96 Z28), and I just love the experience too much to be fully satisfied with anything else.

This exactly. I have driven DCTs (Porsche, AMG, BMW Ms, etc), and they worked perfectly...and were boring after 5 minutes.

I wouldn't buy a 75+K car to go drag racing. I would buy a dedicated strip car for 20K and run MUCH faster than these new heavy platforms. I would buy a ZLE or Z model Corvette for track days however...as long as it's manual transmission equipped. That same car would be a back-road cruiser and I just can't give up rowing gears.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

An auto ZL1 starts at nearly $67k with dest., etc. $74k (with dest.) for the GT500 with it's additional 110 hp and a DCT is not that far fetched. I have heard of some people getting a base GT500 for msrp.

If you really want to compare apples to apples, then you really should add the Recaros. I think at 4225, we can safely assume the base will need all it can get to keep up with the ZL1, so lets add the handling pack in there too.

Now the cost(not including 1500 discount on chevy) is:
ZL1 w/A10 = 66,690
GT500 Base w/Recaros and H.P. = 77,090

That is a $10,400 difference trying to be justified without performance numbers.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

This exactly. I have driven DCTs (Porsche, AMG, BMW Ms, etc), and they worked perfectly...and were boring after 5 minutes.

I wouldn't buy a 75+K car to go drag racing. I would buy a dedicated strip car for 20K and run MUCH faster than these new heavy platforms. I would buy a ZLE or Z model Corvette for track days however...as long as it's manual transmission equipped. That same car would be a back-road cruiser and I just can't give up rowing gears.

Yup. They have their uses, I would love a 2013 e90 M3 with a DCT for my daily driver.

Edit: The M3 in my profile has been sold. If it were a manual, I would still have it.