[oldman]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Thought that would get your attention (next go-round I'll post the lead/lag distance plot as well as the other two).

I'm entirely willing to let the numbers fall wherever they may. Anything after that is up to each individual (including me) to evaluate against what's important to him.


Norm

Heck shen I win the lotto i’m buying you a manual 65 too. I still want a c8 bad. But I am going to have a hard time selling my m6 Camaro. Must resist...channel the “Norm”.

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by 6spdhyperblue

What about taking a SS a10 mag-ride car and optioning 1le suspension (springs and sways wheelstires etc). Will this car be quicker around the track than a 1le 6spd?

I believe the ZL1 is quicker with the a10

Your example is not the same as the ZL1, because the SS when modded would still lack the eLSD, PTM, and 6-piston brakes that the 1LE has. From GM's testing, looks like the 1LE would still win. I say that because GM took an SS and added:
-GM lowering kit (stiffer springs and matching shocks)
-FE4 anti sway bars from a 1LE
-1LE tires/wheels
But the modded SS was still 2 seconds a lap slower around their track than the 1LE was. Doubting in this case that the slight gearing advantage of the A10 would make up that much time on that track.

[6spdhyperblue]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

Your example is not the same as the ZL1, because the SS when modded would still lack the eLSD, PTM, and 6-piston brakes that the 1LE has. From GM's testing, looks like the 1LE would still win. I say that because GM took an SS and added:
-GM lowering kit (stiffer springs and matching shocks)
-FE4 anti sway bars from a 1LE
-1LE tires/wheels
But the modded SS was still 2 seconds a lap slower around their track than the 1LE was. Doubting in this case that the slight gearing advantage of the A10 would make up that much time on that track.

That car that was 2 seconds slower had the lowering kit without mrc. A different suspension. They commented on that point specifically. This car would have the same exact suspension

Gm’s comment:

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by 6spdhyperblue

That car that was 2 seconds slower had the lowering kit without mrc. A different suspension. They commented on that point specifically. This car would have the same exact suspension

Gm’s comment:

So you are assuming that the 1LE springs with MRC would be 2 seconds faster than the lowering kit springs that have matched shocks with them? Remember both are using the same anti sway bars. I'm very skeptical this is true, but you can believe it if you want to.

[6spdhyperblue]

mrc gets reprogrammed with the 1LE settings. Physically the shocks are the same part number between ss mrc and 1le.

It’s really going to come down to the elsd.

From what I read the 6 piston brakes don’t add performance until you cook the 4 piston units. If you are cooking them just add the 6pistons too, they’re a option

[Norm Peterson]

A 50 millisecond shift time does buy you a little more of a distance gap. Not much lap time improvement over a 100ms shift time, though.



Disclaimer: keep in mind that this plot is just for illustration purposes. Any "exact" numbers would be more in line with about a 14-second ET.


Norm

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by 6spdhyperblue

mrc gets reprogrammed with the 1LE settings. Physically the shocks are the same part number between ss mrc and 1le.

Yes, if you have a 2017 or newer SS with MRC, then you can buy the 1LE suspension kit and GM will reprogram your MRC for the new springs. The lowering kit accomplishes this by including shocks that are valved for the new springs for non-MRC cars. My point is, both methods are probably very close to each other, because both are lower/stiffer springs and changing of the damping to go with it.

[undy]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

I'm only finding "under 0.1 seconds" for a DCT (Jalopnik and Motorauthority specifically for the C8, and Tremec as a general sanity check). Not "0.01 seconds".

If you can provide a reference for 0.01 seconds, I'll re-run the same sim with that or any other specific shift time you can find (only takes a couple of minutes including printscreening, cropping, uploading and what-not). Otherwise I may run 50 milliseconds (0.050 seconds).


Norm

My appology Norm, you are correct and I am wrong on the shift times. I re-viewed the GM video that I'd watched and they said <100 millisecond.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by undy

My appology Norm, you are correct and I am wrong on the shift times. I re-viewed the GM video that I'd watched and they said <100 millisecond.

Nothing personal was ever intended . . . just so you know, I used to get paid to find and question little things like that. I suppose that made me a Professional Nitpicker. P.N. (retired) these days.


Norm

[oldman]

Originally Posted by 6spdhyperblue

mrc gets reprogrammed with the 1LE settings. Physically the shocks are the same part number between ss mrc and 1le.

It’s really going to come down to the elsd.

From what I read the 6 piston brakes don’t add performance until you cook the 4 piston units. If you are cooking them just add the 6pistons too, they’re a option

DSSV is a superior damper IMO.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

Your example is not the same as the ZL1, because the SS when modded would still lack the eLSD, PTM, and 6-piston brakes that the 1LE has. From GM's testing, looks like the 1LE would still win. I say that because GM took an SS and added:
-GM lowering kit (stiffer springs and matching shocks)
-FE4 anti sway bars from a 1LE
-1LE tires/wheels
But the modded SS was still 2 seconds a lap slower around their track than the 1LE was. Doubting in this case that the slight gearing advantage of the A10 would make up that much time on that track.

lowering springs are just that, it is a complete assumption that the car will handle better. Also are the alignment specs the same SS vs 1LE, if not .5 degrees of camber is a world of difference. From my experience lowering springs always perform poorly on the track...

[Wyzz Kydd]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Nothing personal was ever intended . . . just so you know, I used to get paid to find and question little things like that. I suppose that made me a Professional Nitpicker. P.N. (retired) these days.


Norm

Originally Posted by oldman

lowering springs are just that, it is a complete assumption that the car will handle better. Also are the alignment specs the same SS vs 1LE, if not .5 degrees of camber is a world of difference. From my experience lowering springs always perform poorly on the track...

Do you guys ever get to step away from the computer and just drive? I just took a quick spin around the lake. I noticed how much I like the way the elsd pulls me out of the turns when I get into it just as I'm passing the apex. I don't know what causes that, haven't run any simulations, but in Stabilitrak Competitive mode it's a hoot to horse it through the turns.

[oldman]

Well since I don't have a 1LE, I could not take it for a drive eh? Plus what does that have to do with GM "lowering springs" for the SS? Obviously, the DSSV and the 1LE suspension setups are sold as racing options. Obviously lowering springs are sold primarily for the performance "look"

[Frank237]

So! How about those Yankees!