[SmAC]

Although I tend you agree with the letter designations not going over well but if you look at the motorcycle industry.... Suzuki built a legendary and iconic motorcycle with the GSXR.... Honda has the CBR, Yamaha R1, R6, R3, Kawasaki's ZX...etc

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Number 3

What case are you resting exactly? That Chevrolet needs to name the car????

Chevy steps on their message with confusing names.

I can own a Camaro SS with an LT1 or a LT1 with a LT1

Or a Chevy SS or a Camaro SS.

Or four different flavors of 1LE.

Or different generation of engines with the same designation. LSx or LTx

The letter designations aren’t necessarily the issue. People can learn them. Jumbling them up between models or generations is where it gets lost.

Google LT1. Bewildering. To know what your talking about, people need context to know what your talking about.

[AZCamaroFan]

Originally Posted by Lazerbrainz2k3

And yet GM abandoned the SS badge in 1972, replacing it with a "Z28" that kept the heritage badge (more or less) while throwing aside the dedicated purpose and special equipment which made the original Z/28 special in the first place. In the name of chasing sales, GM made it so EVERYONE who wanted a V8 Camaro could have the famous Z28 badge on its fenders, no matter how soft and not really track worthy most of them were.

yeah that's not true. Z28 got better handling and braking over the decades. that's Just revisionist 5thgen-era talk.
Once again: The 1967 Z/28 was a way to homologate parts for Trans Am racing, mostly the 302 motor. Chevrolet engineers weren't thinking they were building a 'race car' for the street. It was a performance car.

Still have yet to see a 5thgen Z/28 anywhere. What a success !

[Red Chief]

Originally Posted by SmAC

Although I tend you agree with the letter designations not going over well but if you look at the motorcycle industry.... Suzuki built a legendary and iconic motorcycle with the GSXR.... Honda has the CBR, Yamaha R1, R6, R3, Kawasaki's ZX...etc

Never heard of any of those but I'll take your word that they are legendary among enthusiasts.

I do remember the Kawasaki Ninja. Is that still a thing?

Shelby Cobra, Super Snake, Boss 302, Bullit...people can remember these names and associate them visually even if they can't rattle off the specs. It tells the layperson there's something special about that type of Mustang. The Cobra logo, the Bullit green. That stuff matters.

The ZL1 is a radically different car from the LT1...more than double the horsepower. No name, no logo for it. Just an alphanumeric badge.

Besides a serious need to consolidate trims, Chevy can do a much better job of marketing the Camaro lineup and make the truly special trims more memorable.

[arpad_m]

^^^ Have to agree with this. When even enthusiasts like savagegeese, who live and breathe cars, can't resist the urge to mock these designations (see below, jump to 14:35, the forum engine apparently chops off the time shift parameter), you know GM are continously missing opportunities.

His review of the ZL1 1LE is the best ever, by the way, in case someone hasn't seen it yet.

[Lazerbrainz2k3]

Originally Posted by AZCamaroFan

yeah that's not true. Z28 got better handling and braking over the decades. that's Just revisionist 5thgen-era talk.
Once again: The 1967 Z/28 was a way to homologate parts for Trans Am racing, mostly the 302 motor. Chevrolet engineers weren't thinking they were building a 'race car' for the street. It was a performance car.

Still have yet to see a 5thgen Z/28 anywhere. What a success !

Not exactly a strong argument - the whole lineup got better handling and brakes over the decades. It's kinda what happens over decades. That doesn't mean that the Z28s of the 2nd thru 4th gens lived up to what the first gen Z/28 meant relative to the rest of first generation Camaros, because they didn't for the reasons I already explained.

As you said, the original Z/28 homologated parts for Trans Am RACING, a race which demanded certain numbers of street equivalents to participate. They were never trying to be Formula 1 cars, but how is what the original Z/28 was NOT by definition a "race car for the street"?

As for cars you haven't seen, how many 2nd thru 4th gen SS's had you seen anywhere over those same decades?

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Don't forget that the Gen5 ZL1 was up to the very last minute going to be the Z28. It was all set to be announced at the Chicago Auto Show. At the (again) very last minute Mark Reuss made the decision that the Z28 had to be NA. So GM then went out and had buy back the ZL1 name which they had sold off at some point.

So for all the people that continue to complain (understatement) that GM has no car people, one of the people I have had the most respect for in my career is still there and fighting for product.

I agree and I am thankful that stand was made. My dad’s 15 Z/28 is the best car I’ve ever driven and I am disappointed we don’t get that on the Alpha platform.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Red Chief

Never heard of any of those but I'll take your word that they are legendary among enthusiasts.

I do remember the Kawasaki Ninja. Is that still a thing?

Shelby Cobra, Super Snake, Boss 302, Bullit...people can remember these names and associate them visually even if they can't rattle off the specs. It tells the layperson there's something special about that type of Mustang. The Cobra logo, the Bullit green. That stuff matters.

The ZL1 is a radically different car from the LT1...more than double the horsepower. No name, no logo for it. Just an alphanumeric badge.

Besides a serious need to consolidate trims, Chevy can do a much better job of marketing the Camaro lineup and make the truly special trims more memorable.

The ZL1 only wishes it had double the HP of the SS LT1. That would be 910 HP, which would be awesome.

Most of you are arguing against history. A losing battle to the old folks. 1LE and SS and yes even IROC, mean something to people.

1LE is basically a premium handling package now available on all 4 engine families. Not a lot different than Ford's packages, just named maybe more clearly.

I get that naming an engine (not the car is cool). But when I see/hear Hellcat or Demon, I'm thinking an engine, not a car. It isn't a Dodge Hellcat, it's a Dodge Challenger or Charger with the Hellcat engine. So is that more or less confusing that the Hellcat is actually in two cars? It's not a model.

[NeverDie]

Originally Posted by Ruebernard

Fake news is such a stupid term.

Agreed, but I appreciate when people use it. Their choice to self-identify makes it easier to ignore entirely.

[95 imp]

I could definitely see what everyone is complaining about. Trying to cash in on the "nostalgia" of the legendary motors is getting VERY confusing. Try googling LT1 and half the hits are Gen 2 and half are the Gen 5.

Then, with the success of the Z/28 marketing, we have (or had) a Z71, Z34, and Z26. Not to mention ZL's and ZR's.

The Gen5 LT1 is a great motor, but why couldn't it have it's own designation?
The Z/28 is the Z/28. Why are you going to dilute that name plate with a beretta
or lumina carrying a "Z" badge?

I think it's one of the reasons why the sales weren't that great and it was canceled. The "Z" to most of the public means nothing.

[DenverTaco07]

ok, let's see some alternatives:

Camaro ZL1 = ?

Camaro Z/28 = ?

LT1 motor = ?
LT4 motor = ?

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by 95 imp

I could definitely see what everyone is complaining about. Trying to cash in on the "nostalgia" of the legendary motors is getting VERY confusing. Try googling LT1 and half the hits are Gen 2 and half are the Gen 5.

Then, with the success of the Z/28 marketing, we have (or had) a Z71, Z34, and Z26. Not to mention ZL's and ZR's.

The Gen5 LT1 is a great motor, but why couldn't it have it's own designation?
The Z/28 is the Z/28. Why are you going to dilute that name plate with a beretta
or lumina carrying a "Z" badge?

I think it's one of the reasons why the sales weren't that great and it was canceled. The "Z" to most of the public means nothing.

The 5 gen was the LS series motor 6thgen is LT motors but i get what you are saying . What bothers me is what they slapped the SS emblem on over the years , i know someone with an 2007 SS Malibu and i have to listen to him about being part of the SS family . I would like to see Chevy do away with all SS and Z models and rename them all for the 7th gen .

[Lazerbrainz2k3]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

The 5 gen was the LS series motor 6thgen is LT motors but i get what you are saying . What bothers me is what they slapped the SS emblem on over the years , i know someone with an 2007 SS Malibu and i have to listen to him about being part of the SS family . I would like to see Chevy do away with all SS and Z models and rename them all for the 7th gen .

The current LT1 engine belongs to the 5th generation of the Chevy small block V8, not to be confused with the generations of Camaro.

Keeping SS and Z/28 would be a good move, as those are among the most recognizable classic Chevy destinations - certainly compared to the rather obscure "1LE" and "ZL1". If anything the watering down of those badges - the 1973-2002 Camaro Z28, and the various "SS" models of the late '90s to late 2000s (I've got a neighbor with an HHR SS and get to hear the same talk from him) has made those badges recognizable to the general public in a way those other badges struggle to achieve.

[blackgloves]

I remember when I had a brand new 01' Z/28, the chevy crowd complained that compared to Mustang, there were far less options. People complained that we had to pay extra for leather but mustang put it in all their V8 cars. This is why the 4th gen didn't sell very well (they claimed). They desperately wanted an fbody with a host of factory options like Ford did for Mustang.

Now GM offers more options for the Camaro than we have ever seen. I believe they did this to help sell cars, but the market is quickly moving in another direction (SUVs). Seems like GM can't win with the Camaro crowd. There has been non stop complaining for a long time now. Sales is what keeps the car going across the assembly line. You have to reach out to the most important market which is the V6 buyer. I feel like GM did not only that but did a great job at offering an awesome V8 Camaro.

The market is killing not only the Camaro. The Challenger and Mustang will be next. Shame on those that didn't enjoy these cars or appreciate the efforts put into them.

Lastly, before anyone spouts off about how Challenger sales are "up." Go look at the total numbers they produce each year. I'm not sure the last time they made 70,000 units in a year. They have always been low production cars