[18LTLoveIt]

Originally Posted by Fast02Z06

yup, don't know why they didn't kill Buick smh. they produce absolutely nothing worthwhile nor exciting

Buick sells value cars, Caddy features save 10-15K. They have always been a near retiree car, Century, LeSabre & Park Ave. Buick has been trying to reinvent, itself since 2006, started by ditching their 3 best sellers..a bold move.

While Lucerne and LaCrosse never measured up in sales #s they sold decent.

GM recently ditching the V6 models, across all GM sedans was another mistake for Buick.

Now comes the toughest part for Buick, cockpit seating, Verano & Regal and Crossovers(more expensive).

Buick has always had China in their back pocket and still sell LeSabres & Park Aves there with a ton of mini vans.

Pontiac was more likely to get axed to to bland designs and cars 3 yrs old body panels falling off.

Saturn had to go, was just Chevy's with a Saturn badge. In 2004 the Saturn uniqueness was gone, now just another Chevy.

Hummer, let's be real. It had to go.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by 18LTLoveIt

Buick sells value cars, Caddy features save 10-15K. They have always been a near retiree car, Century, LeSabre & Park Ave. Buick has been trying to reinvent, itself since 2006, started by ditching their 3 best sellers..a bold move.

While Lucerne and LaCrosse never measured up in sales #s they sold decent.

GM recently ditching the V6 models, across all GM sedans was another mistake for Buick.

Now comes the toughest part for Buick, cockpit seating, Verano & Regal and Crossovers(more expensive).

Buick has always had China in their back pocket and still sell LeSabres & Park Aves there with a ton of mini vans.

Pontiac was more likely to get axed to to bland designs and cars 3 yrs old body panels falling off.

Saturn had to go, was just Chevy's with a Saturn badge. In 2004 the Saturn uniqueness was gone, now just another Chevy.

Hummer, let's be real. It had to go.

V6 is back in the Regal GS for 2018. Lacrosse (RIP and I own one, outstanding car for what I paid, not sticker) also has the V6. Verano is gone, Cascada's bags are packed. No clue what GM does with Regal when the deal with Opel runs out.

Also, my guess is GM would love to import the LaCrosse from China along with the Envision. And the Cadillac CT6. However, the current administration is trying to get a decent deal with China before time runs out.

[bjzq8]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Yep...I remember it took a long time for the last of the Pontiac G8's to clear off the lots after Pontiac got Order 66'd in 2009

I almost bought one of the last G8s back in 09. I was all set to get it, then the dealer said "The dealership owner has added it to his personal collection." I ended up getting a 2010 Camaro SS instead.

[90503]

Buick gets shut down in the US for various reasons, lack of sales, etc. ok, fine. But it gets revived and built in China because of it's popularity there. If that's the case, keep the stinking things in China and don't import them to the US to siphon off US made models.

What Buicks gets built in China (or Korea) can stay there. What a croc...

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by Number 3

LOL I was there and this is not the truth. GM shut down 3 brands in the bankruptcy so saving Pontiac would have been easy if it were profitable. All the government did was force GM to take a hard look at what was profitable. For example, the Corvette was neutered and simply a C6.5. It was the Government that asked GM "don't you make a lot of money on the Corvette?" So it became the C7 as we know it thanks to Uncle Sam. Prior to the bankruptcy it was a mid-engine car that basically taken back to a carry over space frame and chassis with some fresh body panels.

Now if you want to talk about the contractually obligated 5,000 additional layoffs(on top of the first wave) that were required to get the bailout...……...

Here is the awesome Pontiac lineup at the time.

Torrent (rebadged Equinox)
G5 (rebadge Cobalt 2-door)
G6 (yayyyy not a rebadge)
G8 (rebadged Holden Commodore)
Grand Prix
Solstice
Vibe (Toyota Matrix)

Nothing special in that. Nothing of volume or worth saving.

If your statement were correct, simply shutting down Saturn or Hummer would have been sufficient.

Honestly, I'll take what Bob Lutz was quoted saying more seriously than what you say. Sorry, but I just don't know you. My statement was from this article.

https://jalopnik.com/the-feds-killed...ays-1452735716

The Feds basically wanted to get GM down to Cadillac and Chevrolet. They said, "you don't need all these brands. You need one prestige brand, and one mass-market brand." And we said "well we can't get rid of Buick because Buick is important in China, and if Buick becomes an orphan in the United States then the Chinese are no longer gonna be interested in it." And the Feds said "Fair enough, but everything else goes." We said well we'd also like to keep GMC. They said "well, GMC is basically just like Chevrolet," and we said "that may be true, there may be a lot of shared components, but GMC has an entirely different image, a different customer base, and people are willing to pay different prices for a GMC, and here's the profitability," and the Feds said "whoops, okay, keep GMC."

So now we had Buick, GMC, Cadillac, and Chevrolet, and then, I wanted, badly wanted, to keep Pontiac, because Pontiac was on its way back, and it had been mismanaged for a number of years, you know, with 'rebuild excitement,' and the excitement was only in the plastic body cladding, mechanically there was nothing about Pontiac in the 90s that would make your heart beat faster. And with the solstice and solstice coupe, and with the Pontiac G8, which was a great car. We were embarked on a strategy of making pontiac different from the rest of GM in that Pontiac wouldn't get any front wheel drive cars, they would all be rear-wheel drive, and the next G6, was going to use the architecture of the cadillac ATS, it was going to be a 3-series sized rear-wheel Pontiac, with basically the Cadillac ATS 'de-premiumized,' obviously, a lot of the cost taken out, but still fundamentally that architecture.

That was going to be the next G6, and I think we could've moved pontiac away from every other American volume brand and really started positioning it as attractive US alternative to some of the, and obviously at much lower prices than the european rear-wheel drive cars, but the Feds said "yeah, let's just, how much money have you made on pontiac in the last 10 years?" and the answer was "nothing." So, it goes. And, when the guy who is handing you the check for 53 billion dollars says I don't want pontiac, drop pontiac or you don't get the money, it doesn't take you very long to make up your mind.

But I think it is a shame, Pontiac was on its way back, and it was killed before it, before the plant could really sprout blossoms, you know, it was well on its way. So, I agree with you, I think Pontiac was a great, wonderful history, mismanaged for a number of years in the 80s and 90s and it was clearly on its way back, and we were starting to see a very good customer base in solstices and especially in the G8, which was favorably compared in a lot of road tests to the BMW 5-series, people would say dynamically the car is as good and it's more powerful and way cheaper, but that was too bad. but you can't go through Chapter 11 without some really harmful effects.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

Honestly, I'll take what Bob Lutz was quoted saying more seriously than what you say. Sorry, but I just don't know you. My statement was from this article.

https://jalopnik.com/the-feds-killed...ays-1452735716

I’m confused. I saw the plans that had Alpha based cars for Pontiac. I was there when they were targeting the Mazda 6 as the key benchmark for the next G6. Yes, there was even a plan for a Firebird/Trans Am replacement.

I read the agreements. Someone Bob talked to May have said kill Pontiac but the governments mandate was get profitable. And killing Pontiac was a small part of that. So my guess is Bob had a passion for Pontiac and simply lumped it in.

But i’ll Defer to what was published. It’s just a bit different than what I say and was told.