[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

The prior GT500 was on 285 series tires out back and 255 series in front trying to harness 660+ hp, I have the same on my 440-hp Boss and I can't put the power to the ground, it was doomed from the start. The Z28 was on 305s squared Trefeo Rs all around, no advantage there right. Comical.

Friend. It’s all about power.?.?. Not, say....

Front 285/30R20 95Y SL; rear 305/30R20 99Y SL Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar 3
Vs
Front 305/30R19 98Y; rear 315/30R19 100Y Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2

Edit - correction. Now it’s all about torque ...in the post 2020 GT500 release world.

Why won’t you, or Brainless, answer #2571? Acknowledge the GT350R’s advantages.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

And the GT500 had a better HP to weight ratio than the Z28. But let him keep thinking HP is the say all end all. The GT500 will have no excuse now since it has way more HP than the ZLE and is coming in brand new vs an unchanged ZLE. Well...unless the tires have more than 0.05 miles on them that is.

Great observation Blaq. I post the weight to power for both the gen5 and gen6 cars.

The ZL1 had a 0.95 lb/hp advantage over the GT350R ...but with lesser tires in M6G speak.

The 2014 GT500 had a 1.80 lb/hp advantage over the Z/28. Nearly double the gen6 advantage.

(Brainless - that’s 2 x 0.95 lb/hp = 1.9 lb/hp.)

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Friend. It’s all about power.?.?. Not, say....

Front 285/30R20 95Y SL; rear 305/30R20 99Y SL Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar 3
Vs
Front 305/30R19 98Y; rear 315/30R19 100Y Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2

Edit - correction. Now it’s all about torque ...in the post 2020 GT500 release world.

Why won’t you, or Brainless, answer #2571? Acknowledge the GT350R’s advantages.

What advantage the 124 hp and 221 tq deficit?

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

What advantage the 124 hp and 221 tq deficit?

See #2578. Checkmate.

[Ethanolic]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Bottom line

1. The ZL1 won while being driven in a manner seen, and described by the author, as docile.
2. The same car, on the same track, driven by the same driver ran 2 seconds faster in a pervious M6 vs A10 review. It’s recorded fact. Not relevant here ...but see the underline section of point #1.
   Intangible human factor - motivation

Hey Brainless, I never made excuses for the GT350, that was your buddy Chadicus who was trying to make excuses for the ZL1 winning... wrap your head around that gem and try to keep up with the conversation.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Worn tires, new tires, what the hell ever. Getting your ass stomped into the ground is a loss no matter how you try to excuse it.

The HC widebody in particular. MSRP $70K. Beats the ZL1 in the quarter mile. Loses to the ZL1 on a track. ZL1. MSRP $63K. Beats the Hellcat WB around a track by a LOT. Loses in the quarter mile. I'd say that's a tie. Of note the Hellcat WB has 67 more HP.

Chevy has the ZL1 at 202 MPH. GT500 can't do more than 180 MPH. GT500 has not had any official times yet. ZL1 has done 11.4. GT500 has 110 more HP and costs $10K more BTW. I'd say the ZL1 is the winner there.

Fastest around a track. ZLE is cheaper than the base GT500 and a base Hellcat WB by a significant amount. So which is the better car? ZL1 hands down.

BTW, which one do you have?

I have to agree with the bolded statement. All this talk about how the MSRP's should be taken into account is in and of itself an excuse. These two cars are direct in-class competition for one another.

As for the snide, derisive, and frankly rhetorical question about who owns what, softens your position by introducing a case of special pleading. It is a non-issue what the person you were replying to owns as it will have no effect on the capabilities of those that do or will own what is in question.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

Hey Brainless, I never made excuses for the GT350, that was your buddy Chadicus who was trying to make excuses for the ZL1 winning... wrap your head around that gem and try to keep up with the conversation.

The ZL1 needs excuses for winning? I never said that. The comment was "The ZL1 only beat the 350R by 1.xx seconds. My comment simply meant yeah and it did that on previously tested tires. I'm sorry you failed to grasp what I was saying.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

If you get tired of being seen as a joke start basing your arguments in reality.

Also I take offense to being called a “ricer” ...that term has a derogatory racial overtone and I am half Vietnamese so kindly refrain from calling me that or it may be you that finds himself on the outside looking in.

I own an American made vehicle also so there’s that.

Me? A joke? By who? You and your friends over on some other forum? Dude I don't care how you view me. You can view me however you want. What I'm telling you is that you are going to stop the name calling. You called us "clowns" before and you got away with it. Yesterday you did it a second time. And you seem to have gotten away with it again. Maybe it is being ignored until somebody reports it and nobody has reported it, yet. But that is the last time you'll insult us. There are rules here and part of the first rule is not to insult others.

As far as the term "ricer". It is a general term and it is used very often. It is not racial and there is no way I could have been using it in a racial way since I don't know what Race you are or claim to be nor do I care. I'm African American. Did I call anyone out for racial undertones when several Mustang guys over here said I live in the "ghetto" or "section 8" housing? No. I didn't. Because I don't care. And for the record, I never called you a "ricer" nor have I ever called you any name. If you were offended by my statements, then you would have said so instead of using it as an angle after you got called out for throwing insults. You're the one who thinks he has free reign to say whatever you want. Even if I say the stupidest nonsense over here on a Camaro forum in support of the car that I own, what is it to you? Do you think for a second that I care what anyone thinks of the ZL1 on any other forum or even what people think of me? SO if it bothers you that we here on a Camaro forum are supporting the car that we paid money for, then you shouldn't even be here in the first place.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

As for the snide, derisive, and frankly rhetorical question about who owns what, softens your position by introducing a case of special pleading. It is a non-issue what the person you were replying to owns as it will have no effect on the capabilities of those that do or will own what is in question.

I asked him a question because I want to know why he is defending that car as bad as he is trying to. If it is because he owns one then I understand. But then again the question would be why is he over here defending it and why does it matter to him what we have to say. So there was a point to my comment. I have asked every Mustang defender over here (on this particular subforum) which car they own and only one of them in the past 2 years had a GT350. The other GT350 owners tend to stay on the other subforums and some of them have a ZL1 also. And even they, the ones who own the car, acknowledge that it is inferior to the ZL1. So I was asking out of curiosity.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

Hey Brainless, I never made excuses for the GT350, that was your buddy Chadicus who was trying to make excuses for the ZL1 winning... wrap your head around that gem and try to keep up with the conversation.

Awe... I thought, from your earlier insults, that we were giving each other names. Now you’ve gone and copied the one I gave you. :(

Our exchange was separate from the one you had with Chadicus. Focus yourself.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Great observation Blaq. I post the weight to power for both the gen5 and gen6 cars.

The ZL1 had a 0.95 lb/hp advantage over the GT350R ...but with lesser tires in M6G speak.

The 2014 GT500 had a 1.80 lb/hp advantage over the Z/28. Nearly double the gen6 advantage.

(Brainless - that’s 2 x 0.95 lb/hp = 1.9 lb/hp.)

Thanks. Another thing I observed is that there is nothing offered by any competitor that is cheaper than a ZL1 and can beat it at anything performance related. If you want something that can beat a ZL1 then you'd have to spend mid $70K minimum. And even then you'd win at only 1 thing. Also, among the 3 Muscle cars, nothing with less HP than a ZL1 can beat a ZL1 at anything performance related. And that is any version of the ZL1 whether it is a manual, auto, or ZLE.

On the other hand, the ZL1 has been constantly beating the competition even when that competition is priced much higher. And the ZL1 has beaten many competitors at one thing or another or several things even when that competition has way more HP.

For the same amount of money, Ford fell way short of matching the ZL1. To beat it, they needed a DCT, CF materials used all over, 6 years of prep, and a sticker price $10K higher...and 110 more HP. And it is still unlikely that it'll beat the ZLE. And the one that might beat the ZLE will cost $20K more. The Hellcat and Redeye needed 57, then 67 and 147 more HP to beat the ZL1 and that was only at one thing. And both cost significantly more.

Kinda says a lot about how amazing this car really is.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Thanks. Another thing I observed is that there is nothing offered by any competitor that is cheaper than a ZL1 and can beat it at anything performance related. If you want something that can beat a ZL1 then you'd have to spend mid $70K minimum. And even then you'd win at only 1 thing. Also, among the 3 Muscle cars, nothing with less HP than a ZL1 can beat a ZL1 at anything performance related. And that is any version of the ZL1 whether it is a manual, auto, or ZLE.

On the other hand, the ZL1 has been constantly beating the competition even when that competition is priced much higher. And the ZL1 has beaten many competitors at one thing or another or several things even when that competition has way more HP.

For the same amount of money, Ford fell way short of matching the ZL1. To beat it, they needed a DCT, CF materials used all over, 6 years of prep, and a sticker price $10K higher...and 110 more HP. And it is still unlikely that it'll beat the ZLE. And the one that might beat the ZLE will cost $20K more. The Hellcat and Redeye needed 57, then 67 and 147 more HP to beat the ZL1 and that was only at one thing. And both cost significantly more.

Kinda says a lot about how amazing this car really is.

The numbers are 12:20s and 11:40s while good 3 years ago, slow by today's standards. When is the next Gen Camaro going to come save the day, 2024?

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

The numbers are 12:20s and 11:40s while good 3 years ago, slow by today's standards. When is the next Gen Camaro going to come save the day, 2024?

If I may ...you said it best

Originally Posted by newmoon

Have to agree. This PP2 is slower than the standard GT in any forum other than track, the Bullitt is extremely disappointing even slower than a base GT. New GT Manual is 2015-2017 slow. All failures IMO and not worth the $$$. Only GT even worth talking about would be the A10 PP1.

The SS 1LE is superior to the PP2. Look at the conclusion to your coveted lighting lap.

Camaro is a complete performance package. Superior engineering.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

The numbers are 12:20s and 11:40s while good 3 years ago, slow by today's standards.

Nice try but there will be no point in history when a car capable of doing low 11s in the quarter mile will be "slow" by any means. It might be slow-er than another car. But it will never be "slow" at all.

Originally Posted by newmoon

When is the next Gen Camaro going to come save the day, 2024?

I'll be in a C8 Vette by then. So it doesn't concern me when it comes out. When will the S650 Mustang come out to save the day and clean up the mess left behind by the S550?