[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by BluePhoenix

Thing about it all is where does Mary Barra and Execs want to take GM, and when it comes to the brand are the just waiting to see the response on the 2020 refresh, and how sales play out over next year or two. Also they don’t want to announce and debut a 7th gen Camaro prior to Ford or Dodge showing their next gen cars. Really because of where the Camaro currently is, they should wait let it play out. The Gen 6 Camaro is a very nice car, what’s not nice about them are the sticker prices. The new LT1-Base V8 may help a bit, but GM would have to market them or put a few on the dealers lots. Word was we have seen the last variant of the 6th gen Camaro with the refresh however GM needs to counter the new GT500 with a Z/28 that uses the 2019-2020 refresh.

It wouldn't be a Z28 that is needed to counter the GT500 it would be a Zl1 , and it wouldn't take much work . I doubt the GT500 can beat the Zl1/1Le around any track now . I don't think GM is worried about what Dodge future plans are because they are so far behind in there platform that whatever they come up with won't match the Alpha. It will be interesting when the Chevy vs Ford high performance hybrids start , i can't wait .

[CamaroSS50]

GM Says Recently Dethroned Chevrolet Silverado Poised for a Comeback



Everybody who obsesses over automobiles knows that the redesigned Chevrolet Silverado is a hideous monstrosity with a disgustingly small four-cylinder engine as its base powerplant. At least that’s the gist among automotive journalists. While yours truly doesn’t understand how anyone could claim that GMC’s new Sierra boasts the more-attractive mug, both ended up with mildly disappointing interiors and a ride that’s not quite on par with their domestic rivals — especially the Silverado.

Shade has been thrown and the public has responded by buying fewer full-size trucks from Chevy, forcing it to give up its second place sales ranking to Ram. However, General Motors seems to think the issue has been overblown and only represents a temporary setback.

“Given our limited availability, we deliberately launched with a really high mix in trims,” GM President of the Americas, Barry Engle, told Automotive News earlier this month. “But as we get broader availability and get the full portfolio out there, we’ll be just fine.”

That translates into increasing annual capacity of heavy-duty models by 40,000 and the 1500 by 20,000. In fact, the automaker recently announced it would be investing $150 million into Flint Assembly for just that reason.

However, General Motors doesn’t actually need those pickups to take its number two sales slot back from Ram because it technically never lost it. Assuming you take the Sierra into account, the General is still holding onto its silver medal. But Fiat Chrysler’s truck division is still out for blood. Average incentive spending for the Silverado and Sierra have been about $500 less than Ram throughout 2019 but $1,500 more than the Ford’s F series, which remains America’s best-selling pickup.

From Automotive News:

"Ram has beaten the Silverado in nine of the past 10 months, according to U.S. sales estimates from the Automotive News Data Center that have been validated by GM’s quarterly reports. The Ram has outsold the Silverado by 36,619 since the latest Silverado 1500 hit dealerships in August and holds a lead of nearly 22,000 five months into 2019.

Including the GMC Sierra 1500, which was also redesigned at the same time, GM’s full-size pickup share was down 3 percentage points in the first five months of 2019 compared with the same period a year earlier.

With the Sierra, GM remains in second place in the full-size segment, behind Ford Motor Co.

But GM executives insist the shake-up in a closely watched battle with major image and profit implications isn’t a sign of trouble. They say the trucks’ launch is going as planned and that GM is focused on profits, not market share."

“We’ve got a plan,” Engle said. “We’re in this for the long haul.”

That certainly sounds like low-grade chicanery but Engle noted that GM also hasn’t been selling its redesigned pickups to fleet customers in significant volumes and has only just started rolling out HD and lower-priced models. While the wording makes us wonder if the automaker just wants to downplay this whole thing, it also makes a decent counterargument. Ram may not have the mojo to beat GM or even Chevrolet on a longer timeline, especially not if people keep buying pickups with High Country and Denali at the end of their names.

[closs2sx]

Originally Posted by CamaroSS50

GM Says Recently Dethroned Chevrolet Silverado Poised for a Comeback



Everybody who obsesses over automobiles knows that the redesigned Chevrolet Silverado is a hideous monstrosity with a disgustingly small four-cylinder engine as its base powerplant. At least that’s the gist among automotive journalists. While yours truly doesn’t understand how anyone could claim that GMC’s new Sierra boasts the more-attractive mug, both ended up with mildly disappointing interiors and a ride that’s not quite on par with their domestic rivals — especially the Silverado.

Shade has been thrown and the public has responded by buying fewer full-size trucks from Chevy, forcing it to give up its second place sales ranking to Ram. However, General Motors seems to think the issue has been overblown and only represents a temporary setback.

“Given our limited availability, we deliberately launched with a really high mix in trims,” GM President of the Americas, Barry Engle, told Automotive News earlier this month. “But as we get broader availability and get the full portfolio out there, we’ll be just fine.”

That translates into increasing annual capacity of heavy-duty models by 40,000 and the 1500 by 20,000. In fact, the automaker recently announced it would be investing $150 million into Flint Assembly for just that reason.

However, General Motors doesn’t actually need those pickups to take its number two sales slot back from Ram because it technically never lost it. Assuming you take the Sierra into account, the General is still holding onto its silver medal. But Fiat Chrysler’s truck division is still out for blood. Average incentive spending for the Silverado and Sierra have been about $500 less than Ram throughout 2019 but $1,500 more than the Ford’s F series, which remains America’s best-selling pickup.

From Automotive News:

"Ram has beaten the Silverado in nine of the past 10 months, according to U.S. sales estimates from the Automotive News Data Center that have been validated by GM’s quarterly reports. The Ram has outsold the Silverado by 36,619 since the latest Silverado 1500 hit dealerships in August and holds a lead of nearly 22,000 five months into 2019.

Including the GMC Sierra 1500, which was also redesigned at the same time, GM’s full-size pickup share was down 3 percentage points in the first five months of 2019 compared with the same period a year earlier.

With the Sierra, GM remains in second place in the full-size segment, behind Ford Motor Co.

But GM executives insist the shake-up in a closely watched battle with major image and profit implications isn’t a sign of trouble. They say the trucks’ launch is going as planned and that GM is focused on profits, not market share."

“We’ve got a plan,” Engle said. “We’re in this for the long haul.”

That certainly sounds like low-grade chicanery but Engle noted that GM also hasn’t been selling its redesigned pickups to fleet customers in significant volumes and has only just started rolling out HD and lower-priced models. While the wording makes us wonder if the automaker just wants to downplay this whole thing, it also makes a decent counterargument. Ram may not have the mojo to beat GM or even Chevrolet on a longer timeline, especially not if people keep buying pickups with High Country and Denali at the end of their names.

that is one ugly truck and they can focus on profit as they should but the truck needs to look good to sell so that they can make a profit

[cellsafemode]

people want to fit more than two people in a large car. The camaro is a large car. It's not a miata.

that's #1 sales killer for sure outside of price.

Third sales killer, not selling to anyone other than the US.

You dont really need any other reasons other than those 3. Price, occupancy count, limited demographics. It's not performance that is lacking with the camaro. It's better than all of it's competition at pretty much every trim price point. It's the practicality points. The occupancy issues. The trunk is plenty large, but the opening is ridiculous to the point of infuriating. The windows are barely tall enough to work at drive thru's.

Most normal people are not going to put up with those compromises when they can get 90% of the thrill by buying a ford or dodge.

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by RealG

If you think any aspects of the Blazer flop are good , we live in two different worlds. It’s not a Blazer it’s a joke as the new Bronco will kill it in sales and everything else. And like it or not the public regardless of what general motors hopes compares the blazer and the bronco 40 years of history has taught us that. GM can make a new suburban suv and call it a Camaro but that wouldn’t make it a Camaro. GM is lost. Blazer will be discontinued in a few years, GM wasted a valuable name plate.
No sense in us arguing about it , time will tell.

I drive a 20 year old Blazer every day and all 20 years its been good to me but recently had a chance to drive a new Blazer and it was just as i would hope it was . When i got my 18 Traverse the Blazer wasn't available and i have no regrets but i would have bought the Blazer instead . The new Blazer is a Blazer just like the new Camaros are Camaros . My 1972 RS/SS Camaro i once owned is nothing like my 1Le but it shouldn't be when separated by almost 50 years .
On a side note did you order the LT1 yet you been waiting for ?

[RagingHawk]

Originally Posted by Lazerbrainz2k3

Going on both configurators just now over lunch, I see neither "many more interior and exterior packages" (or even standalone options), nor a big gap in price. Depending on trim and engine it even tilts in Chevy's favor.

Sure, Ford offers some things Chevy doesn't, but the reverse is true as well. All are pretty minor details which I doubt are anyone's reason for picking one over the other if they're seriously cross-shopping.

The most consequential difference between the two that I see is Ford offering MRC on the Ecoboost while Chevy doesn't below the SS, but for an otherwise zero-options Ecoboost, it's a $6k option!

You're right, Ecoboost premium is around the price of a I4 3LT, even the V6 3LT. Problem then is the dealers are ordering too high specced models that bring them to mid/high 30's.

Are you sure the scrolling option is working properly? On my laptop it is bugged and hard to scroll through the options on the Mustang configurator. But, there are some that offer appearance/interior/performance packages like:

-Performance pack for Ecoboost
-High performance pack (2020 Ecoboost, adds 20HP)
-Black accept package
-Carbon interior package(alcantara/leather seats for those who don't want to upgrade to premium but also don't want cloth seats)

...
...

Anyhow, besides people liking Mustang design better, dealers need to to option out Camaros too much. And Chevy should stick to one of either I4/V6 with increased torque/power. This makes it easier for consumers. And don't forget the Ecoboost is now making 310hp/350tq on premium fuel.

[RagingHawk]

Originally Posted by RealG

If you think any aspects of the Blazer flop are good , we live in two different worlds. It’s not a Blazer it’s a joke as the new Bronco will kill it in sales and everything else. And like it or not the public regardless of what general motors hopes compares the blazer and the bronco 40 years of history has taught us that. GM can make a new suburban suv and call it a Camaro but that wouldn’t make it a Camaro. GM is lost. Blazer will be discontinued in a few years, GM wasted a valuable name plate.
No sense in us arguing about it , time will tell.

I have not seen enough details for the new Bronco to determine if it will be a hit or not. I don't think most modern consumers will choose it over the Explorer, but I could be wrong. As for the Blazer, the design does more for it than some would think. And those looking for midsize SUVS will often go with larger Blazer over Equinox. It's just how consumer preferences are today. Bigger SUV translates into more value/usability for them even if they don't really need it. But, yes, Q2 sales should give us a good impression of Blazer potential. We should know by mid July.

[oneredry]

just seen this..
https://www.foxnews.com/auto/gm-is-d...ro-report-says

[Road_Warrior85]

For the one so butthurt about the Blazer not being reminiscent of the old K5, I would like to point out that the Charger was not a 4 door car in the 70s, but look how successful it is now.
People under 50 are not going to shun the Blazer because "its not a blazer".... hell, people under 35 don't give a crap if the name of the vehicle existed 10 years ago..... much like the charger, they ate going to buy the vehicle and it's capabilities..... not the name.

As mentioned above, people want more than JUST the best performance car..... they want that real life usability. The VAST majority of Camaro owners aren't taking them to the track.
Let the ZL1 be the super track oriented model, let the SS be ther real world car. Let casual drivers have a seat at the yankee, and give them an upgrade option if they want the track.
Remember the BOSS mustang? It didn't stick around, because Ford realized "track ready" wasn't what drove sales.

Dodge appealed to the ego of aggressive drivers. They were bodybuilders instead of powerlifters. Dodge buyers didn't care that ther camero was the better performing powerlifter, they liked that Challengers were the big, brawn, sexy bodybuilders.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Yeah, it like Mustang sale have fallen 62% since the start of this generation.

...putting it another way

Putting it another way, even with a 62% drop in sales, the Mustang is still outpacing the Camaro.

[AlphaDream]

My guess on the delay/termination is that they were far into gen7 development when they realized the gen6 Camaro is a stink bomb, and like the Alpha2 CT4, the Alpha2 Camaro was a carbon copy of the Alpha1 Camaro on fundamental traits. So there they were with the sudden realization that few buyers wanted an ugly and impractical pony car they couldn’t see out of, yet the Alpha2 Camaro's design was set in stone. Outward visibility, trunk opening size, and interior space are baked into a design in the early stages of development, possibly before the gen6 Camaro was even released to the public.

It was decision time: throw out years of development time and money and start over, or terminate the model and focus on more profitable trucks.

I believe Al Oppenheiser deserves much of the blame for the Camaro’s demise since as Chief Engineer it was his responsibility to set design parameters like outward visibility, trunk opening size, and interior space. He failed to balance the needs of a daily driver against the demands of track usage, and the result was a weekend toy car with even less practically usable cargo space than a Corvette. I’m told the Camaro's back seat isn’t even usable for baby seats! Why wouldn’t they make baby seat usage a design goal for a car purchased by young men? Do they think only incels buy Camaros? I mean seriously, what kind of groupthink circle jerk forgets to ensure baby seat usage is practical in a Camaro?

Such a colossal failure of product planning requires consequences, so heads need to roll at the very highest levels of GM. No doubt Mark Reuss was among those who signed off on the Alpha1 Camaro so he needs to go first and foremost. Welburn was supposedly responsible for setting the design goal to "make it look like the Omega Camaro, but more Transformer!" but he's retired so good riddance. While they're at it they can terminate the employment of those responsible for the 2019 mid-cycle uglification, John Mack and Michael Simcoe. I have a sneaking suspicion they also uglied up the trucks so there's another reason to terminate them with extreme prejudice.


GM have apparently freaked at the publicity of the Camaro's demise so in an effort to protect current sales they've tried to steer the story towards "delayed until further notice" instead of "cancelled." Just like the 5th gen Camaro was "delayed until further notice" in 2002.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I'm saying it IS bogus.

1 - For all we know Al could have gotten a promotion. Or he could have requested a different department 5 years ago but had to wait until something was available. Or he took over for someone who retired. Or any number of reasons that none of us are aware of. Stuff like this happens with administrative people in companies all the time. It isn't anything new and is not indicative of anything negative.

2 - Sales across the segment are bad and have been bad. And again, you keep talking sales yet nobody in 2 years has been able to answer the question of whether or not sales are bad enough that they are not making a profit. I have asked that over and over to which nobody knows. They just keep repeating "sales are bad".

3 - There are no rumors about the S650 other than the name. There are no mentions of the next Gen Challenger or even a Challenger in 2 years.

My point is that everything said about the Camaro can be said about the Chally and Mustang. Yet the Camaro is the only one being questioned. Challenger sales have straight up sucked for 75% of it's life span since it returned. They sold soo horribly that the were consistently being outsold 2 or 3 to 1. But I don't remember one person questioning them back when they sold like 2,250 units and the Camaro sold like 7,500 units.

And again, none of this matters as I bought my last Camaro...unless I buy a used one in the future for whatever reasons. I'm moving on to higher end stuff. But I'm just saying you gotta see how silly and hypocritical this all is. The Camaro is the only one being questioned because it is the only report that will grab headlines or get attention for whatever reason. Probably because these guys on here keep thinking that everything spells doom for the Camaro. Shit, the Camaro could have gotten extended by 1 week and there would be posts on here that we're all doomed and GM is failing and the Camaro is gone forever.

All I said was there was somethings that could make you pause and go hmm. I also agreed with you I expect it to be around.

[protovack]

Originally Posted by RagingHawk

The Blazer's design is well executed, imo. It got a lot of attention at the auto shows and it is starting to sell well. I am seeing many of them on the streets. The experiment with the interior design also left people excited. GM needs to be more flexible with interior design for next gen vehicles it will continue to do well. If you look at Subura, Hyundai, Ford, etc., their upcoming vehicles have an all new interior design. The tablet style screens/full digital display is becoming the standard. For GM, I think we will first their implementation in the 2021 Escalade.

As for Camaro, the design was good, but they have to appeal to more average customer even though we enthusiasts might not like that. Even then, the 6th gen should be more successful. Problem is the I4/V6 trims are too expensive for what you get. People want more features. You can get an 1LS or 1LT but it is not pretty inside or out. Mustang has lots of options for its Ecoboost. Many more interior and exterior packages that allow the Car to be visually pleasing to a wide array of consumers.

So Chevy needs to either cut the V6 or I4 in next gen. Either go with an boosted I4 to compete with Ecoboost or some V6 hybrid. On the 5th gen, the V6 was standard and many people went 2LS route for the value, power and design. 6th gen, it is more expensive to get in a V6 and if you go value route(ie 1LS), it is not atheistically pleasing without LED headlights/RS package.

So bottomline, this is a packaging/pricing dilemma. Cut the I4 or V6 in next gen Camaro. Whichever one is chosen, give it ample power to compete with current Ecoboost Mustang and market it as a great alternative to the Ecoboost. HP/TQ need to be above 300. Otherwise people will just go with more compact hot hatch or something. Then drop 1LE package, no one really cares about it on standard model. Give a performance package that enhances appearance and performance to a moderate degree. Then offer some simple exterior packages. And finally, cut down interior trim to 1LT/2LT only. Like a non-priemum vs premium on the Mustang. And let full digital display/other goodies like Recaros and so on to be separate options.

I disagree on several details here, mainly about styling--I think the base model Camaro looks just fine, even verging on cleaner looking to some. But I do agree that GM needs to get a more powerful 4 cylinder. That's where the L3B comes in. That said, I still feel like my 2.0T is amazingly quick and I don't really feel like I need more power on the street. It's light too. The horsepower wars can't go on forever, nor should they.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by RealG

If you think any aspects of the Blazer flop are good , we live in two different worlds. It’s not a Blazer it’s a joke as the new Bronco will kill it in sales and everything else. And like it or not the public regardless of what general motors hopes compares the blazer and the bronco 40 years of history has taught us that. GM can make a new suburban suv and call it a Camaro but that wouldn’t make it a Camaro. GM is lost. Blazer will be discontinued in a few years, GM wasted a valuable name plate.
No sense in us arguing about it , time will tell.

What are you going to say, when the Bronco comes out with a 4 cylinder EcoBoost engine? What do you "think" the Bronco will be? I see comments on this site all time that go something like "If GM would bring back the [insert dead nameplate here] it would be awesome and sell like hot cakes!!" OK sure, whatever you are thinking in your head might be perfect for you. Meanwhile, 3/4 of everyone else thinks your grand vision sucks.

It makes me sick that half the comments on here say something to the effect of "7th gen needs to look less like a 1st gen, more like a 2nd gen". You've got to be kidding me. The only thing the 7th gen (if we get one) needs to be is something that has the general Camaro identifiers....long hood, short deck, two door 2+2 coupe with sporty performance. It does not need to be freaking retro 2nd gen.

Aside from the internet diehards like yourself, everyone I've talked to...even a few Ford faithful have told me they like the new Blazer. My wife is not a car person per say, and she loves it. Look I get that crapping on a storied nameplate with something that doesn't fit the heritage sucks...but there was already a grocery getting Blazer in the 90s and early 00s. Did you cry then? Hate it or not, I think the Blazer will be a success. Yep...time will tell. The only thing wrong with the Blazer is that the price is a bit hard to swallow, but you know Chevy is going to be throwing money on the hood sooner or later. Also, Chevy is going to water down the look like crazy, throwing it on the new TrailBlazer and Equinox instead of letting Blazer have it's own personality.