[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

I'm hoping that instead of a full electrificaiton of muscle cars (if we can even still call them that), they transition to a 48-volt system. It only adds minimal weight and can boost efficiency 10% or more. Plus, you can electrically power a compressor to provide boost when your turbo isn't spooled up yet, getting rid of turbo-lag without robbing you of RPMs. It can also give you 100-150 lbft of torque, especially off the line. You can also shut down the engine completely while cruising at higway speeds and still power the A/C compressor with electricity. You can also put all accesories on the 48volt system, like the water pump, a/c compressor, power steering, etc. All of this is a win/win in terms of performance and efficiency.

I like how you think.

[Mighty Mouce]

Originally Posted by IOMike

I feel that this attitude is the core of what's wrong with GM.

Don't make it better, just do a better job convincing people to buy it? I could not agree less.

The 6th gen is a great car with major issues outside of the performance aspect. For some, they can look past those issues. I'd rather GM buckles down and builds a better car than learns a better way to sling it.

So they can't do both? They can make the car perfect but if no one knows its out there what good is it. And whats so bad about the camaro anyway?? Look how Dodge increased there sales. They had a badaas ad campagn. They built the HC and Demon and didn't hold back promoting it, no matter how un PC it was.

[at7000ft]

Originally Posted by cellsafemode

chevy's just gonna push you into a mustang.

Mustang isn't going away because ford doesn't have to split sales between the vette and camaro like chevy does. One car with a ton of trims that range from super expensive to 4 banger cheap. Chevy is too far up it's own rear to change now ...so they'll just keep the vette with it's relatively higher profit margin and just deal with selling less cars and cede the next gen of car enthusiasts to ford and dodge.

Maybe gm is more pessimistic than me and they're saying to ford and Dodge that they can have this niche ...since it's worthless given that none of it will exist soon. SUV's and uber/lyft will dominate the ongoing market ...with regulation destroying all "excessive" performance in the name of safety, efficiency (automation), and the environment.

And while we are on the pessimistic performance car future note, don't forget about the gps monitors insurance companies are currently encouraging us to use that monitor speed/acceleration/etc and send the info right to the insurance company. Some day you will not be able to get insurance without using one, at that point few will be interesting in having a performance car, (just those with little to lose that will risk going without insurance, or race track only).

[Mighty Mouce]

Originally Posted by CCG Garnet Red

My son and I carried two of his 18 year old female fellow HS grads out to eat to Tupelo, MS (45 minute drive) about a week ago in his '17 RS. Yeah he (5'10") and I,( 5'11") sat in the front with seats forward and the girls 5'7" and 5'4", sat in the back. They said that they had plenty of room and loved his car. It's what you make it or just drop the Camaro and put the name on that sporty "Blazer" instead, more room and better visibility. BTW, he and I couldn't get a word in edgeways! Ha!

True I have had mid 5 footers in the back of mine with no problem.

[Mighty Mouce]

Originally Posted by LT4Greg

Has anyone out there heard if GM cut the Racing Support for drag racing and NASCAR? I have been wondering lately with Mary B.in charge of GM now!

Yeh...I'm heard that somewhere. GM is run by snowflakes now...wouldn't surprise me.

[RagingHawk]

Chevy needs to adjust pricing/trim layout on the lower tier Camaro models. Camaro SS/ZL1 are fine. The I4/V6 need to be adjusted as they are not competing well with the Mustang Ecoboost. Drop the 1LE package and just make a cheaper performance pack. I can find Mustang Ecoboosts in the Premium trim with the performance pack for low 30's on auto trader. A fully loaded 3LT Camaro trim with or without 1LE pack is often mid to high 30's. That needs to change.

Also Ford has a lot of consumer focus on the Ecoboost engine and its performance. It has a good reputation in general and is seen across their other performance brands. GM needs to decide for the next gen if they are going to I4 route only or V6 hybrid route and market it as a direct competitor to the Ecoboost.

[RealG]

GM is lost , No vision, no direction typical large corporation inefficiency. The current design and management team cannot properly design a seventh gen Camaro so it’s best to just give up. The new Chevy blazer is a nightmare the new Chevy trucks are ugly and nobody buys any Chevy cars period. The only hope is if they go fullbore into electric cars and that happens to takeoff they might be OK but if not I really believe they’ll be done as a company in 10 years.

[DanZ]

Camaro’s just aren’t embraced by enough groups of people. The primary buyer of a Camaro is a young male. I bought my first one at 20. Females, young couples, and middle aged people will buy Chargers and Mustangs, but rarely a Camaro.



There’s a neighbor of mind, the mother and the two adult children all have new Chargers. My sister has a Mustang. A gal down the street has a Mustang. One girl where I work has a Mustang. A receptionist of a client I call on has a Mustang. I don’t know any females with a Camaro. And I rarely see a female driving a Camaro.

[BluePhoenix]

Thing about it all is where does Mary Barra and Execs want to take GM, and when it comes to the brand are the just waiting to see the response on the 2020 refresh, and how sales play out over next year or two. Also they don’t want to announce and debut a 7th gen Camaro prior to Ford or Dodge showing their next gen cars. Really because of where the Camaro currently is, they should wait let it play out. The Gen 6 Camaro is a very nice car, what’s not nice about them are the sticker prices. The new LT1-Base V8 may help a bit, but GM would have to market them or put a few on the dealers lots. Word was we have seen the last variant of the 6th gen Camaro with the refresh however GM needs to counter the new GT500 with a Z/28 that uses the 2019-2020 refresh.

[RagingHawk]

Originally Posted by RealG

GM is lost , No vision, no direction typical large corporation inefficiency. The current design and management team cannot properly design a seventh gen Camaro so it’s best to just give up. The new Chevy blazer is a nightmare the new Chevy trucks are ugly and nobody buys any Chevy cars period. The only hope is if they go fullbore into electric cars and that happens to takeoff they might be OK but if not I really believe they’ll be done as a company in 10 years.

The Blazer's design is well executed, imo. It got a lot of attention at the auto shows and it is starting to sell well. I am seeing many of them on the streets. The experiment with the interior design also left people excited. GM needs to be more flexible with interior design for next gen vehicles it will continue to do well. If you look at Subura, Hyundai, Ford, etc., their upcoming vehicles have an all new interior design. The tablet style screens/full digital display is becoming the standard. For GM, I think we will first their implementation in the 2021 Escalade.

As for Camaro, the design was good, but they have to appeal to more average customer even though we enthusiasts might not like that. Even then, the 6th gen should be more successful. Problem is the I4/V6 trims are too expensive for what you get. People want more features. You can get an 1LS or 1LT but it is not pretty inside or out. Mustang has lots of options for its Ecoboost. Many more interior and exterior packages that allow the Car to be visually pleasing to a wide array of consumers.

So Chevy needs to either cut the V6 or I4 in next gen. Either go with an boosted I4 to compete with Ecoboost or some V6 hybrid. On the 5th gen, the V6 was standard and many people went 2LS route for the value, power and design. 6th gen, it is more expensive to get in a V6 and if you go value route(ie 1LS), it is not atheistically pleasing without LED headlights/RS package.

So bottomline, this is a packaging/pricing dilemma. Cut the I4 or V6 in next gen Camaro. Whichever one is chosen, give it ample power to compete with current Ecoboost Mustang and market it as a great alternative to the Ecoboost. HP/TQ need to be above 300. Otherwise people will just go with more compact hot hatch or something. Then drop 1LE package, no one really cares about it on standard model. Give a performance package that enhances appearance and performance to a moderate degree. Then offer some simple exterior packages. And finally, cut down interior trim to 1LT/2LT only. Like a non-priemum vs premium on the Mustang. And let full digital display/other goodies like Recaros and so on to be separate options.

[Lazerbrainz2k3]

Originally Posted by RagingHawk

Problem is the I4/V6 trims are too expensive for what you get. People want more features. You can get an 1LS or 1LT but it is not pretty inside or out. Mustang has lots of options for its Ecoboost. Many more interior and exterior packages that allow the Car to be visually pleasing to a wide array of consumers.

Going on both configurators just now over lunch, I see neither "many more interior and exterior packages" (or even standalone options), nor a big gap in price. Depending on trim and engine it even tilts in Chevy's favor.

Sure, Ford offers some things Chevy doesn't, but the reverse is true as well. All are pretty minor details which I doubt are anyone's reason for picking one over the other if they're seriously cross-shopping.

The most consequential difference between the two that I see is Ford offering MRC on the Ecoboost while Chevy doesn't below the SS, but for an otherwise zero-options Ecoboost, it's a $6k option!

[RealG]

Originally Posted by RagingHawk

The Blazer's design is well executed, imo. It got a lot of attention at the auto shows and it is starting to sell well. I am seeing many of them on the streets. The experiment with the interior design also left people excited. GM needs to be more flexible with interior design for next gen vehicles it will continue to do well. If you look at Subura, Hyundai, Ford, etc., their upcoming vehicles have an all new interior design. The tablet style screens/full digital display is becoming the standard. For GM, I think we will first their implementation in the 2021 Escalade.

As for Camaro, the design was good, but they have to appeal to more average customer even though we enthusiasts might not like that. Even then, the 6th gen should be more successful. Problem is the I4/V6 trims are too expensive for what you get. People want more features. You can get an 1LS or 1LT but it is not pretty inside or out. Mustang has lots of options for its Ecoboost. Many more interior and exterior packages that allow the Car to be visually pleasing to a wide array of consumers.

So Chevy needs to either cut the V6 or I4 in next gen. Either go with an boosted I4 to compete with Ecoboost or some V6 hybrid. On the 5th gen, the V6 was standard and many people went 2LS route for the value, power and design. 6th gen, it is more expensive to get in a V6 and if you go value route(ie 1LS), it is not atheistically pleasing without LED headlights/RS package.

So bottomline, this is a packaging/pricing dilemma. Cut the I4 or V6 in next gen Camaro. Whichever one is chosen, give it ample power to compete with current Ecoboost Mustang and market it as a great alternative to the Ecoboost. HP/TQ need to be above 300. Otherwise people will just go with more compact hot hatch or something. Then drop 1LE package, no one really cares about it on standard model. Give a performance package that enhances appearance and performance to a moderate degree. Then offer some simple exterior packages. And finally, cut down interior trim to 1LT/2LT only. Like a non-priemum vs premium on the Mustang. And let full digital display/other goodies like Recaros and so on to be separate options.

If you think any aspects of the Blazer flop are good , we live in two different worlds. It’s not a Blazer it’s a joke as the new Bronco will kill it in sales and everything else. And like it or not the public regardless of what general motors hopes compares the blazer and the bronco 40 years of history has taught us that. GM can make a new suburban suv and call it a Camaro but that wouldn’t make it a Camaro. GM is lost. Blazer will be discontinued in a few years, GM wasted a valuable name plate.
No sense in us arguing about it , time will tell.

[closs2sx]

Gm is rarely a leader they have always followed. Camaro came after the mustang and it took them 3 years. When other manufacturers started blacking out their vehicles it was past the peak of the fad before gm got in the game and they only dipped their toes in. Its time gm finally becomes a leader not a follower. I am a gm guy have bought 27 new gm vehicles in my life and many performance cars and everyday cars and have only strayed a few times. That being said to be honest if they don't put a good looking high hp camaro out (lt5 755 hp range or better) in something like a zl1 at least hopefully a zl1 1le then its time for me to move on from the brand in general. I will not go ford or Chrysler but Audi, Porsche would be high on the list. I wanted a ZR1 but 140k was 40k more then my Z06 and it has 750 to the wheels now and I did not see the value the ZR1 so gm lost me there. I can't say I won't buy a C8 but right now I don't like the idea or looks of it.

[FNxR3DNECK]

Originally Posted by RealG

If you think any aspects of the Blazer flop are good , we live in two different worlds. It’s not a Blazer it’s a joke as the new Bronco will kill it in sales and everything else. And like it or not the public regardless of what general motors hopes compares the blazer and the bronco 40 years of history has taught us that. GM can make a new suburban suv and call it a Camaro but that wouldn’t make it a Camaro. GM is lost. Blazer will be discontinued in a few years, GM wasted a valuable name plate.
No sense in us arguing about it , time will tell.

I think you might be stuck in the past my friend.... Why is the name so damn important anyway? The market for a full size truck-based (as in body on frame) off-road SUV just hasn't been there for a LONG time!!!! That's why Ford killed the Bronco however many years ago, and that's why Chevy killed the Blazer (or should I say turned it into the Trail Blazer in the 2000s). They didn't really "Bring back the Blazer" like you want it because yours (and others on here's) desire for an old school Blazer isn't reflected by the market. The market is all about small-medium cross-overs, so that's what they did. They named it Blazer probably for 2 reasons: 1. It's a name that some/most Chevy customers will at least recognize. 2. Simply a reason to preserve the trademark for the Blazer name.

Your arguments/predictions about the Bronco are completely irrelevant. The Bronco is targeting the Wrangler, the Blazer is in a whole different segment. Ford is banking on Jeep owners jumping ship to Ford, Chevy simply has no interest in trying to compete in that segment.

GM is not "lost", they are investing in the future. Some people with your mindset are just stuck in the past...