[s346k]

not surprised. camaro is now a niche car with too much invested. they are expensive, for good reason, but clearly don’t apply to the greater majority of buyers. i don’t sell cars so i don’t see mine going anywhere.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

I'm not saying this news is bogus...but I'm not convinced of it either. There is no way the CT4 and CT5 are going to sell well enough to warrant keeping around the Alpha 2 chassis. The Camaro outsells both of those cars...perhaps combined even. You'd think GM would want to split those costs even further.

I'm saying it IS bogus.

Originally Posted by shaffe

While yes earlier I agree this seems like the type made just for clicks there is some evidence that at least makes me go hmmm I could see that happening.

1. Al O getting plucked away from the Camaro. He's the guy that got it where it is and he's in another department.
2. The sales are bad (segment wise all bad)
3. there's really been no rumors about the 7th gen. I think everyone just assumed it would go on Alpha II like the CT4/5

But to me there is way more reasons to keep it around that have already been mentioned. Mostly the plant won't survive on just CT4/5 production. That alone to me makes the car worth carrying into a 7th gen. I would say it's more likely that we see a 7th gen than not.

1 - For all we know Al could have gotten a promotion. Or he could have requested a different department 5 years ago but had to wait until something was available. Or he took over for someone who retired. Or any number of reasons that none of us are aware of. Stuff like this happens with administrative people in companies all the time. It isn't anything new and is not indicative of anything negative.

2 - Sales across the segment are bad and have been bad. And again, you keep talking sales yet nobody in 2 years has been able to answer the question of whether or not sales are bad enough that they are not making a profit. I have asked that over and over to which nobody knows. They just keep repeating "sales are bad".

3 - There are no rumors about the S650 other than the name. There are no mentions of the next Gen Challenger or even a Challenger in 2 years.

My point is that everything said about the Camaro can be said about the Chally and Mustang. Yet the Camaro is the only one being questioned. Challenger sales have straight up sucked for 75% of it's life span since it returned. They sold soo horribly that the were consistently being outsold 2 or 3 to 1. But I don't remember one person questioning them back when they sold like 2,250 units and the Camaro sold like 7,500 units.

And again, none of this matters as I bought my last Camaro...unless I buy a used one in the future for whatever reasons. I'm moving on to higher end stuff. But I'm just saying you gotta see how silly and hypocritical this all is. The Camaro is the only one being questioned because it is the only report that will grab headlines or get attention for whatever reason. Probably because these guys on here keep thinking that everything spells doom for the Camaro. Shit, the Camaro could have gotten extended by 1 week and there would be posts on here that we're all doomed and GM is failing and the Camaro is gone forever.

[MakCamaro]

Fake news. Read the article below from GM Autority:

http://gmauthority.com/blog/2019/06/...rOtapGhrF6BR3I

And this:

https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=557167

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

Yeah, it's not like the Mustang sold over 100k for the first two years of the generation.

Yeah, it like Mustang sale have fallen 62% since the start of this generation.

...putting it another way

[Martinjlm]

The biggest single threat to Camaro beyond 2023 will be CAFE. Camaro (and Mustang) are relatively short wheelbase cars with powerful engines in a world where long wheelbase trucks and utilities have preferential treatment in computing CAFE targets. Some amount of electrification will be needed if either is expecting to survive in the new CAFE world.

[396ssrat]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

The biggest single threat to Camaro beyond 2023 will be CAFE. Camaro (and Mustang) are relatively short wheelbase cars with powerful engines in a world where long wheelbase trucks and utilities have preferential treatment in computing CAFE targets. Some amount of electrification will be needed if either is expecting to survive in the new CAFE world.

Currently this administration has put the kabosh on the unreasonable CAFE standards. We may end up with a reprieve if 2020 goes well.Otherwise it will be Batteries.

[DrkPhx]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

The biggest single threat to Camaro beyond 2023 will be CAFE. Camaro (and Mustang) are relatively short wheelbase cars with powerful engines in a world where long wheelbase trucks and utilities have preferential treatment in computing CAFE targets. Some amount of electrification will be needed if either is expecting to survive in the new CAFE world.

Very true. The real race now is not which OEM can build the highest hp model, but who will come to market first with an electric Pony Car. We know Dodge is out, so it's between Ford and GM.

Originally Posted by 396ssrat

Currently this administration has put the kabosh on the unreasonable CAFE standards. We may end up with a reprieve if 2020 goes well.Otherwise it will be Batteries.

They will eventually get reinstated once the current administration is out of office; that's what the OEM's are anticipating.

I copied this from the blog:

A previous version of this story indicated the seventh-generation Chevrolet Camaro had been cancelled, but we received word that it has actually been delayed until further notice.

True or not; it looks like GM is going to let the Camaro carry on in it's current state for at least a few more years. Maybe they're hoping for sales to pick up over the years like the Challenger and if not; it's gone. Either way, the next few years will be interesting that's for sure.

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by CCG Garnet Red

The Gen 4 ran from 93 to 2002 and got very stale and sold very poorly in its last year. Same thing could happen to the Gen 6, especially if no Gen 7 in the pipeline. GM Authority says Gen 7 just delayed. Better not delay too long or will be forgotten during Gen 6 extended run. I was filling up my son's 17 RS the other night and a man with two vettes came up to me, looked his Camaro over and tried to figure out what it was. He didn't know that they were still making Camaros. Thanks, GM.

2002 sales were about the same as the previous 5 years. 1994-95 were the biggest sales years for 4th gen at well over 100k sold. Sales dropped by half in '96 and then to around 40k-45k for the final 5-6 years.

So, if Camaro drops to around 40k-45k units for the 6th gen...the writing is on the wall.

[Ethanolic]

Originally Posted by 396ssrat

Currently this administration has put the kabosh on the unreasonable CAFE standards. We may end up with a reprieve if 2020 goes well.Otherwise it will be Batteries.

Car manufacturers don’t look at what the current administration is doing, they look at trends. Fuel efficiency and electrification are the long term trends.

[FNxR3DNECK]

Originally Posted by GearheadSS

2002 sales were about the same as the previous 5 years. 1994-95 were the biggest sales years for 4th gen at well over 100k sold. Sales dropped by half in '96 and then to around 40k-45k for the final 5-6 years.

So, if Camaro drops to around 40k-45k units for the 6th gen...the writing is on the wall.

But the market was totally different back then.... so I find it hard to directly compare the two situations.

[17Blk1LE]

Al will be working towards design on past models. These models will be electric..Again GM is leaning towards a Teslas future.

[rocket403]

7th Gen Delayed indefinitely or Canceled we will see how it all plays out over the next 4 years to see if the delay is a permanent situation.

I would think that if the Camaro continues to be outsold by the Challenger and the sales don't rebound after the new V8 non SS goes on sale I would think it may be a permanent outcome.

Also with Martinjlm comments about CAFE requirements past 2023 maybe the writing is on the wall for V8 cars and this is the end of the line for cars with big engines, in the future it will only be in the trucks.

[GearheadSS]

Originally Posted by FNxR3DNECK

But the market was totally different back then.... so I find it hard to directly compare the two situations.

Was it? If there are about the same number of folks buying these cars, is the market for them really that different? I don't think so.

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by rocket403

7th Gen Delayed indefinitely or Canceled we will see how it all plays out over the next 4 years to see if the delay is a permanent situation.

I would think that if the Camaro continues to be outsold by the Challenger and the sales don't rebound after the new V8 non SS goes on sale I would think it may be a permanent outcome.

Also with Martinjlm comments about CAFE requirements past 2023 maybe the writing is on the wall for V8 cars and this is the end of the line for cars with big engines, in the future it will only be in the trucks.

I'm hoping that instead of a full electrificaiton of muscle cars (if we can even still call them that), they transition to a 48-volt system. It only adds minimal weight and can boost efficiency 10% or more. Plus, you can electrically power a compressor to provide boost when your turbo isn't spooled up yet, getting rid of turbo-lag without robbing you of RPMs. It can also give you 100-150 lbft of torque, especially off the line. You can also shut down the engine completely while cruising at higway speeds and still power the A/C compressor with electricity. You can also put all accesories on the 48volt system, like the water pump, a/c compressor, power steering, etc. All of this is a win/win in terms of performance and efficiency.