[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

Did they? I haven't really kept up with it to be honest. I would assume the GT500 will come in around 4100 pounds in standard configuration. So if it can get decent traction it could very well beat the Redeye. Almost all of us here have been saying it will need to for months.

ZLE vs Trackpack idk. On a long track the extra power could be tough to beat. Hard for me to fathom the 500 beating a ZLE on a short technical track.

The price is going to be the most interesting thing to me. Especially with the C8 right around the corner.

The GT350R is 3,720 lbs, so I would expect the carbon fiber track pack GT500 to be around 3,920 lbs. or less. The GT350 is 3,805 lbs, so I would expect the regular GT500 to be around 4,000 lbs. but wouldn't be surprised if it comes in at 3,990 lbs. If I was Ford I wouldn't want to crest 4,000 lbs. I don't think it's going to hit 4,100 lbs. Contrary to popular opinion, the Mustang and Camaro, comparably equipped, are only about 30-50 lbs apart. The recent 1LE vs. PP2 test showed the Mustang 48 lbs heavier. The SS convertible and GT Convertible are 31 lbs apart (Motor Trend), comparably equipped. I don't see why the ZL1 would be 150-200 lbs lighter than the GT500.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

Let's find out what it costs first...and let's be clear... it makes 5 hp more than a ZR1...but it won't touch a ZR1 in any race...

Agree 1000%. That is simply bragging rights for ford to say their 5.2 makes more than the Corvettes 6.2 That is all. I don't the GT500 won't come close to a ZR1 at all.

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

I would hope, that a car with 110 more HP could beat the standard ZL1 around a track. I imagine it will beat it, but it wont be by a mile.

As for the ZLE, I think it will simply come down to the track...because if its a super technical track, I dont see anyway the ZLE loses..



With the torque deficit, I don't see it beating a RE unless it's in a perfect condition..

Also agree for the most part about the ZL1 comments. Tight technical track I expect the ZLE to come out on top. Track where GT500 can use brute force it might come out on top

From what I have seen Dodge claims 10.8 for the Redeye, but MT and C&D could only get 11.8s with it. So I could the GT500 besting it

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

The GT350R is 3,720 lbs, so I would expect the carbon fiber track pack GT500 to be around 3,920 lbs. or less. The GT350 is 3,805 lbs, so I would expect the regular GT500 to be around 4,000 lbs. but wouldn't be surprised if it comes in at 3,990 lbs. If I was Ford I wouldn't want to crest 4,000 lbs. I don't think it's going to hit 4,100 lbs. Contrary to popular opinion, the Mustang and Camaro, comparably equipped, are only about 30-50 lbs apart. The recent 1LE vs. PP2 test showed the Mustang 48 lbs heavier. The SS convertible and GT Convertible are 31 lbs apart (Motor Trend), comparably equipped. I don't see why the ZL1 would be 150-200 lbs lighter than the GT500.

1LE vs PP2 @ 48lbs heavier...had a lot to do with the coolers (and the fluid they hold) missing on the PP2.

I will say the gap isn't as great as some like to think, but the actual disparity when similarly equipped needs to take into account all things, not just options packages. The ZL1 will be at least 150lbs lighter than the GT500. A very carbon fiber track pack will shrink the ZLE differential to ~100 lbs is my guess.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Your assuming a whole lot in that statement. Also the 2013 GT500 is still to this day faster than a manual ZL1 in the 1/4. The only ZL1 that beats it would be the A10.

It should be. It has more HP and is lighter and has a solid axle afterall.

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

My point is, Blaq's pretending to not be impressed with a car that makes more power than GMs most powerful car ever that is typically $130k+, that was just released for 2019. Give me a break. 760 hp is impressive, even today. To say otherwise is just bitterness or weakness, being unable to admit Ford put together an impressive output from the Predator. Most of y'all are reasonable and expecting the GT500 to put up a good fight. Blaq is already declaring the ZL1 the winner before any tests have been done.

I would imagine the GT500 and ZR1 will be fairly similar in the 1/4 mile both in time and trap speeds, the ZR1 isn't exactly a light weight car (albeit lighter than the GT500 and ZL1) so traction will play a bigger role than expected in the e.t. Ford has already stated the GT500 runs 10s in the 1/4. Isn't the ZR1 running high 10s as well?

First off, I'm not pretending...I'm just not impressed. And second, ALL of us here are speculating on which car will beat which car at what. That is what we've been doing for months and even well before you showed up here. And you're doing the exact same thing matter of fact. So why are your panties all in a bunch at my statements? Really, would you have expected me, of all people, to say anything different? LOL!!

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

It will lay waste to a regular ZL1 around a track, considering the GT350R is nearly just as fast as the regular ZL1 around a track. Also, at 760 hp and likely coming in 500-600 lbs lighter than a Redeye, it will also likely beat the RE down the strip.

Not with those pathetic torque numbers it won't. And not if it weighs 4100 pounds. And definitely not if all it's HP is at the top of the RPM range and if it doesn't start making that power until like 5K RPMs. And not if it can't brake well enough or keep itself cool. And even if it does, what will the MSRP start at? So it will cost more than a ZL1, will have had 5 years of development, 110 more HP, 7SP DCT...if anything it damn should "lay waste" to the standard ZL1. And if it does, that still won't take anything away from how freaking awesome the ZL1 is. So I'm not seeing any way the ZL1 has anything to lose.

The ZLE will beat it for sure. And again, the ZLE really has nothing to lose considering the specs. But I'm pretty sure it's gonna hand out some spankings.

As far as the RE, the GT500 doesn't stand a chance.

[USAFS197]

As much as I love what GM has done with the Camaro, I think there is a lot of misplaced confidence, especially before ANY true performance metrics have been released, as to where the GT500 will fall performance wise. I wholeheartedly believe that they did their homework on the car and studied their competition before bringing this car into the foray. To that end, I would suspect that they would edge out their competition and not obliterate it.

Ford has gone on record to say that this generation GT500 has gained weight over its previous iteration but, did not specify as to how much so, speculate away. However, the previous GT500 came in at 3920 lbs.

Therefore I predict that the base model GT500 will edge out a standard ZL1. The Track Pack GT500 will edge out a ZL1 1LE, if anything, just based upon brute force but, it'll still be slower than a Z06/ZR1 around a track--which a Mustang is not geared to be direct competition for. Ford's real battle, is dealing with dealerships and their god awful ADM's that drive away sales.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

It will lay waste to a regular ZL1 around a track, considering the GT350R is nearly just as fast as the regular ZL1 around a track. Also, at 760 hp and likely coming in 500-600 lbs lighter than a Redeye, it will also likely beat the RE down the strip.

I also think the track package GT500 will be faster than the ZLE around a track.

Of course, these are all just speculation until someone can prove otherwise.

Which GT500 will lay a regular ZL1 to waste on the track? The regular GT500?

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by USAFS197

As much as I love what GM has done with the Camaro, I think there is a lot of misplaced confidence, especially before ANY true performance metrics have been released, as to where the GT500 will fall performance wise. I wholeheartedly believe that they did their homework on the car and studied their competition before bringing this car into the foray. To that end, I would suspect that they would edge out their competition and not obliterate it.

Ford has gone on record to say that this generation GT500 has gained weight over its previous iteration but, did not specify as to how much so, speculate away. However, the previous GT500 came in at 3920 lbs.

Therefore I predict that the base model GT500 will edge out a standard ZL1. The Track Pack GT500 will edge out a ZL1 1LE, if anything, just based upon brute force but, it'll still be slower than a Z06/ZR1 around a track--which a Mustang is not geared to be direct competition for. Ford's real battle, is dealing with dealerships and their god awful ADM's that drive away sales.

I do think the ZL1 is going to edge it out. 760 HP means nothing if it can't utilize that power on the track or if it doesn't have the room to stretch it's legs. Even if it does have room it would still have to catch up to and surpass the car it is competing against. If the ZL1 beats it around the corners due to having more TQ, less weight, a way better chassis, pretty awesome tires, and a tight suspension, then the GT500 will have to play catch up in the straights. And let's keep it real, the ZL1 on it's own merit is a very fast car in a straight line once it is rolling. Especially with those 10 gears keeping it constantly in it's power range. Also that small 1.7 liter blower will put it in boost instantly. If the straights are long enough then the GT500 will catch it. But then we'll be right back into the corners. And you have to remember that some tracks will favor the pushrod engine whereas other tracks will favor the DOHC engine. The track where they battle it out at might be the key difference. Also the time of year this happens. We don't know if that GT500 will start getting hot carrying all that weight around. Those brakes might start fading. Didn't that happen to the 13-14 GT500s? We know the ZL1 can be pushed to the limit. Can the same be said for the GT500? All we have are 2 numbers for the GT500 vs an entire history and a wealth of info on the strengths of the ZL1. So I think having confidence in the ZL1 is not a bad idea. From what I can tell based on the info on the GT500, it isn't going to beat the ZL1.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

Let's find out what it costs first...and let's be clear... it makes 5 hp more than a ZR1...but it won't touch a ZR1 in any race...

GT500 - 760 HP and 625 lb-ft
ZR1 LT5 - 755 HP and 715 lb-ft

Yep. 5 more HP but 90 lb-ft less torque.

Power dense ...sure. But less torque than a ZL1's LT4

[USAFS197]

Originally Posted by hotlap

GT500 - 760 HP and 625 lb-ft
ZR1 LT5 - 755 HP and 715 lb-ft

Yep. 5 more HP but 90 lb-ft less torque.

Power dense ...sure. But less torque than a ZL1's LT4

I don't know why everyone keeps making this comparison. No one should be comparing the ZR1 or it's engine to the GT500. They aren't even the same class of car. Let's try to keep this Camaro-centric, to which we all know it will not be getting the LT5.

[USAFS197]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I do think the ZL1 is going to edge it out. 760 HP means nothing if it can't utilize that power on the track or if it doesn't have the room to stretch it's legs. Even if it does have room it would still have to catch up to and surpass the car it is competing against. If the ZL1 beats it around the corners due to having more TQ, less weight, a way better chassis, pretty awesome tires, and a tight suspension, then the GT500 will have to play catch up in the straights. And let's keep it real, the ZL1 on it's own merit is a very fast car in a straight line once it is rolling. Especially with those 10 gears keeping it constantly in it's power range. Also that small 1.7 liter blower will put it in boost instantly. If the straights are long enough then the GT500 will catch it. But then we'll be right back into the corners. And you have to remember that some tracks will favor the pushrod engine whereas other tracks will favor the DOHC engine. The track where they battle it out at might be the key difference. Also the time of year this happens. We don't know if that GT500 will start getting hot carrying all that weight around. Those brakes might start fading. Didn't that happen to the 13-14 GT500s? We know the ZL1 can be pushed to the limit. Can the same be said for the GT500? All we have are 2 numbers for the GT500 vs an entire history and a wealth of info on the strengths of the ZL1. So I think having confidence in the ZL1 is not a bad idea. From what I can tell based on the info on the GT500, it isn't going to beat the ZL1.

I understand what you're saying. I don't think it will be a decidedly or even resounding victory but, I think it would be completely idiotic for Ford to release a vehicle with this much anticipation to be bested by an already existing vehicle that is within their lines of competition. That just doesn't make sense to me. I, for one, would not be upset if the ZL1 does fall to the GT500. I just hope that this continues to breed competition.

[shaffe]

Im going to try to just stay out of this till some reviews pop up. Other than that its same mindless chatter as last few months.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by USAFS197

I don't know why everyone keeps making this comparison. No one should be comparing the ZR1 or it's engine to the GT500. They aren't even the same class of car. Let's try to keep this Camaro-centric, to which we all know it will not be getting the LT5.

It was only mentioned in response to Idaho pointing out that the GT500 will make more power than the ZR1. They are obviously in different leagues.

I think the GT500 will be neat. Good for Ford! After the time and focused benchmarking, it should be a winner.

[Laststandard]

Originally Posted by USAFS197

I don't know why everyone keeps making this comparison. No one should be comparing the ZR1 or it's engine to the GT500. They aren't even the same class of car. Let's try to keep this Camaro-centric, to which we all know it will not be getting the LT5.

Probably because GT500 pricing will be around Z06 (pre-adm) or ZR1 (post-adm) levels.

For Camaro ZL1 the argument will become "for the extra $xxxxx I can make it faster / handle better / etc than the GT500"