[k20attack]

Originally Posted by JB'sZL1

I'm sure they don't, and I'm sure GM will not do that. I'll put money on it. I have stated from the beginning the onus is upon the manufacturer if a claim is denied because of a purported warranty violation. We even have it in writing (I do not know if it's in EE's warranty...but that would be a good thing) that allowing EE's can to overflow "will not cause damage."

I'm not sure what you're saying is true in the case of a catch can since it is not part of the original design of the car. While it is true that the onus is on the manufacturer to prove your "aftermarket" part caused a problem (per the 2nd link EE provided), I'm not sure a catch can would be considered aftermarket since the FTC language seems to imply that "aftermarket" means direct replacement parts not made or sold by the OEM. I'll try to dig deeper at the FTC and at GM for an actual answer. I'd like to install a catch can, but I am not willing to fight anyone for warranty work if anything goes south with my engine, catch can related or not.


Also, FYI, direct quote from the FTC website: "The FTC cannot resolve individual complaints, but can provide information about what steps to take to protect yourself."

[JB'sZL1]

Originally Posted by k20attack

I'm not sure what you're saying is true in the case of a catch can since it is not part of the original design of the car. While it is true that the onus is on the manufacturer to prove your "aftermarket" part caused a problem (per the 2nd link EE provided), I'm not sure a catch can would be considered aftermarket since the FTC language seems to imply that "aftermarket" means direct replacement parts not made or sold by the OEM. I'll try to dig deeper at the FTC and at GM for an actual answer. I'd like to install a catch can, but I am not willing to fight anyone for warranty work if anything goes south with my engine, catch can related or not.


Also, FYI, direct quote from the FTC website: "The FTC cannot resolve individual complaints, but can provide information about what steps to take to protect yourself."

The reason for the Moss act is to help business: there are all kinds of aftermarket parts to place on almost any vehicle, from lights to spoilers to deflectors etc. And the vast majority of these will not cause engine damage.

One needs to differentiate any part that is cosmetic or preventative vs. a power mod. Hell, you can install an upper pulley in less time than a cc on an LSA, and a lot of techs would not notice it. But you can easily overspin the sc causing damage.

We now have it in writing than an overfilled cc will not cause damage to the engine. It would be good to have that on their warranty. And going one further: that a properly installed EE cc will never cause harm to an engine.

[JB'sZL1]

Originally Posted by k20attack

I'd like to install a catch can, but I am not willing to fight anyone for warranty work if anything goes south with my engine, catch can related or not.

I couldn't agree with you more.

[k20attack]

I have the below email in to the FTC and I emailed Chevy. I'll let you know when/if I hear back:



I do not have a complaint to file or a specific problem. I am looking for clarification on the FTCs position on auto warranties. I am looking for an answer whether or not installing "aftermarket" parts into a vehicle voids the warranty in two different scenarios:



1) where the aftermarket part was not a part of the original design of the vehicle but is widely used for increasing the engine life of the vehicle, IE: Oil Catch Cans.


2) Where the aftermarket part is a part of the original design of the vehicle, but said aftermarket part is not made by the original equipment manufacturer and varies slightly in design and/or shape from the OEM parts but facilitates the same function as the OEM part, IE: an air intake or exhaust system.

[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by Elite Engineering

...LT1...

This is a ZL1 section. Folks here are LT4 here not LT1.

Can you share your before and after pictures and data collected on an otherwise stock ZL1 LT4 engine?

....and then same question on a modified ZL1 LT4 engine (headers, cam, heads, intake, tune, etc.), without changing any of these before and after "performance mods" other than the catch can itself?

[JD2018_ZL1]

Originally Posted by Elite Engineering

By Federal law, they cannot void your warranty for one of our systems as it in no way defeats, deletes, reduces, or compromises an function of the OEM system and it retains a closed to the atmosphere system. And at 95% effectiveness for our E2 and E2-X Series, there is no more effective system on the market. That is 2-3 times any of the systems some are endorsing, and anyone can do the "catchcan challenge" to see for them selves with no bias anywhere involved. Next, look at the law. You do NOT need to sue anyone, a simple complaint with the FTC will start the ball rolling, the burden is on the manufacturer/dealer.


So look at the actual law and some examples, especially with more and more dealers selling and installing proper systems. But ANY system with a breather can and will give grounds as well as are illegal in all 50 States.


https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blog...ranty-warnings



https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/article...ne-maintenance



https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/media/v...file-complaint



Now, we commonly see "opinions" expressed and we urge all to look at fact.


To also clarify, when we share photo's, dyno graphs, and test results (even though we do all of these ourselves to see the results) we ONLY port independent un biased sources. Such as this before and after dyno runs of a LT1 with 20k miles on it. app. 20 whp regained after a manual intake valve cleaning:






Anyone can do this same test themselves. It only takes a few minutes to remove your intake manifold, and minimal tools to inspect your valves up close and personal. And a manual cleaning is not that difficult.


We do not yet have CARB cert for CA, but we are one of the few that meet all emissions requirements as well as make it impossible to cause any issues that could be warranty related. Allowing a can to overfill will defeat the function of the can, but does not cause damage. In our design droplets will begin to be pulled through once the can reaches over 1/3rd full so it can never lead to a "gulp" of ingestion.


The benefits for past Port injection engines were mainly reduction in Knock Retard and keeping engine wear at bay and extended engine oil life, where the GDI engines we stop up to 85% of the intake valve coking, remove most contaminants before they can settle and cause excessive wear, increase fuel economy in addition to the other benefits. And we challenge ANY other can design to test against ours.


As always, contact our Engineering department before ordering to make sure you get the correct system for your vehicle at: Tech@EliteEngineeringUSA.com and then Sales@EliteEngineeringUSA.com


Cheers!

This is dangerous. Federal Law(Magnuson Moss Act)written in 1975 mind you, was created to make it impossible for you to have your warranty claim denied for using an aftermarket air filter or oil filter. That is even becoming a battle now because they have gone to certifications on the oil not just oil weight such as 5w30 it has to be 5-w30 dexos 1 or 2.

End of day anyone that makes aftermarket parts should not be on a forum making these proclamations unless they are willing to go to Bat for the person they are selling to.

The fact is dealers and manufacturers are making it very difficult for people that want to mod their vehicle in any way. They void the warranty because they can and then if you want to fight it you also can do that but at what cost? They are trying to make it illegal for you to tune the vehicles computer because they are making a claim you do not own the software you are merely using it in the vehicle they sell you. They are trying under the digital rights act.

I believe with a direct injection gasoline engine the benefits from a catch can are of no doubt. Do I think the benefit outweighs the warranty loss potential, no. The added detergents in todays top their gas is designed with direct injection in mind. I think as long as you change the oil frequently and run top tier fuel you will be fine.

It is going to become more and more difficult to do anything as evident in the ZR1. They are going full encryption on the computers. FCA has encrypted gateway modules they require authentication prior to even being able to connect to the car. They started that in 2018. Cars are all connected to internet now also and if you think that they aren't monitoring your car you're nuts. They can see every value and parameter they want.

[SJFGTO]

What it all comes down to in the real world is if a dealer denies a warranty claim erroneously because of a catch can you can take it to other dealers and hope for a better outcome, bear the cost of the repair yourself and move on, bear the cost of the repair yourself and sue the dealer / GM for breach of warranty to recover your costs, file an action to compel the dealer to fix your vehicle under warranty or keep badgering the dealer and GM to change their minds. Whether or not the dealer was incorrect in the first place is of little consequence if the dealer says no dice. Then it becomes a matter of time and expense to right the wrong and you may or may not have a Camaro sidelined until there is a resolution. I have an elite catch can, I believe they function as advertised. I have used them in the past on LS engines. It all comes down to whether you are willing to accept the real world possibility that a dealer may make an incorrect decision and the consequences that follow.

[Mister Will]

Originally Posted by SJFGTO

What it all comes down to in the real world is if a dealer denies a warranty claim erroneously because of a catch can you can take it to other dealers and hope for a better outcome, bear the cost of the repair yourself and move on, bear the cost of the repair yourself and sue the dealer / GM for breach of warranty to recover your costs, file an action to compel the dealer to fix your vehicle under warranty or keep badgering the dealer and GM to change their minds. Whether or not the dealer was incorrect in the first place is of little consequence if the dealer says no dice. Then it becomes a matter of time and expense to right the wrong and you may or may not have a Camaro sidelined until there is a resolution. I have an elite catch can, I believe they function as advertised. I have used them in the past on LS engines. It all comes down to whether you are willing to accept the real world possibility that a dealer may make an incorrect decision and the consequences that follow.

The thread has been circling around this point the entire time. Finally someone said it all in one post.

[Elite Engineering]

JD2018_ZL1

I would have to disagree on the FTC as being antiquated, We included several links to recent actions that involve aftermarket products of all types, and in our over 15 years doing this there has only been ONE instance of a warranty denied, and those that followed it all know it was an illegal case of voiding the warranty as it was a common oil pump failure not related in any way. The FTC is very active in assisting with complaints and following up, and as our system in NO way violates in any way anything that can void a warranty. While this is NOT the case of many, especially those with a breather or that vents to the atmosphere. So as we deal with this, and no one else seems to provide the links to the forms and guides offered on this, we feel it is a service we supply. So, out of 10's of thousands sold and in use, and only the one instance and it's outcome, that is not much of a risk period.

Now, the oil used DOES have an impact on all of this, but can you please explain how today's fuel have any effect on these issues? In order to have any impact the fuel would need to make contact with the backsides of the intake valves. As no fuel touches the valves where the coking builds, how does this impact it? We here are a rare company of Engineers, and an Automotive Engineer whose specialty is all of this, we stay on top of the new developments and changes in the industry affecting all of this, and that is why we have the data and information we share. Every other brand on here pushing catchcans simply pushes the products, and that is how sales are made. We seem to be the only one that takes all of these hours to share and educate and as many can attest to, it does not matter WHO's can you purchased, we still assist with helping install and troubleshoot.

As for the Industry and anti-tuning steps with encryption getting more and more sophisticated, our systems don't affect any of this. We only enhance and improve what is already in place making sure to maintain emissions compliant systems. As for benefits, we are one of the few to work directly with several in the industry to validate and verify the benefits and we share this as well.

So, there is no valid reason to NOT install a system if warranty is the concern because the actual experience does not support that concern. we realize there is a small group here that for whatever reason seem to have taken it upon themselves to attempt to discourage people from taking these steps to ensure long engine life and avoid the issues that affect these engines, and are confused as to why as we respect anyone's personal choice to not to. But that should be just that, the car owner’s choice and decision. We have probably at least 1 every week a Chevy or GM dealer is installing the system on the customers car as they have seen the benefits and assure the customer it will not affect the warranty. And that is GM alone. Ford and others also do.

So, let's have a technical discussion on how using the right fuel has any effect whatsoever on these issues. Would love to hear how that is possible.

Thanks, and ask questions all. Were here to answer technical questions and discuss it instead of just "Buy this!!"

Cheers!

[Fredtp]

[QUOTE=Elite Engineering;10520586]JD2018_ZL1

I would have to disagree on the FTC as being antiquated, We included several links to recent actions that involve aftermarket products of all types, and in our over 15 years doing this there has only been ONE instance of a warranty denied, and those that followed it all know it was an illegal case of voiding the warranty as it was a common oil pump failure not related in any way. The FTC is very active in assisting with complaints and following up, and as our system in NO way violates in any way anything that can void a warranty. While this is NOT the case of many, especially those with a breather or that vents to the atmosphere. So as we deal with this, and no one else seems to provide the links to the forms and guides offered on this, we feel it is a service we supply. So, out of 10's of thousands sold and in use, and only the one instance and it's outcome, that is not much of a risk period.


So Elite Engineering is saying catch cans with a breather void the warranty?

[unavailablezl1]

My dealership offered to install one when I told them about oil usage at lots of high rpms. So that right there would not void a warranty, one would hope.

[Stealth7]

So elite, will you provide say a $50000 litigation budget for each of your customers so that if a dealer or GM voids a warranty as a result of one of your products the customer will have funds to contest the matter?

[JB'sZL1]

Originally Posted by Fredtp

So you are saying catch cans with a breather void the warranty?

I think what he's saying, and it's been law for over half a century, is that vented breathers violates the law and the warranty. A breather must be vented back into the engine to be legal.

[Ghost18ZL1]

Originally Posted by Stealth7

So elite, will you provide say a $50000 litigation budget for each of your customers so that if a dealer or GM voids a warranty as a result of one of your products the customer will have funds to contest the matter?

I have an Elite can on my car so I hope this is the case