[mlee]

Originally Posted by OminouSS

You are not likely to boil your factory fill anyway so please give no thought to the ABS flush. It is just not necessary. You are going to have to be one aggressive driver to compromise the stock DOT 3 fluid and you are much more likely to experience fade at the pad/rotor before the juice. No harm in filling with motul now but since you are new to track, I might actually suggest you wait a couple sessions before switching. Do the pads and fluid all at once when you are realistically requiring the upgrade. Stretch the consumables as far as you safely can.

Definitely not true... Do not go to a road track without DOT4... EVER.

Originally Posted by Timbo-1LE

Question, believe I read the clutch used same reservoir, any thoughts here??

Did first track day with factory, was going to switch to dot4.

Yes, clutch fluid is in the back side of the brake reservoir and there is really no way to completely drain this so there will be some mix, but no big deal. Once you do the next DOT4 flush it will be all gone. These reservoirs co-mingle.

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

Where do you see that in the High Performance Owner's Manual? I can't seem to find it anywhere...
I'll still be changing the fluid since everyone seems to agree the manual says to and it makes a big difference.

Whether you find this in the manual or not you will find out very quickly that DOT3 will not work well for you on a road track. There is nothing like that feeling of having no brakes at 100 mph.

I asked the GM Engineers why they don't put in DOT4 from the factory with ZL1 cars especially and the answer was DOT3 lasts longer and the masses don't track.

Short Story: I got caught up making plans for CFest 7 a couple years ago and didn't do the brake fluid change, but wasn't planning on much NCM track time anyway since I had to work with vendors and do setup at Beech Bend. I did find some time late afternoon to run over to NCM and make a couple of sessions in my 17 ZL1 and all seemed good. Then I drove it back over to Beech Bend and the autoX track had just been finished and they wanted me to take a quick run and check it out. 1st turn and I almost ended up in the wall with no brakes.

Trust me it doesn't take long to boil DOT3 and loose your brakes.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by GunMetalGrey

Where do you see that in the High Performance Owner's Manual? I can't seem to find it anywhere...
I'll still be changing the fluid since everyone seems to agree the manual says to and it makes a big difference.

Main Owner's Manual page 199. It addresses brake fluid and bedding in process. While DOT4 is not specifically mentioned there, a minimum dry boiling point is.
While there are decent DOT3 * racing * fluids out there and of course higher grade DOT4s, the SRF will give ya the most protection, last all season and require least frequent bleeding. Stock fluid is a street fluid and there is a chance one can boil it and lose the brakes. It is a real risk and nothing I'd recommend for anyone to experience especially early in their track driving career.

PS Not sure why this is not mentioned again in HP Supplement. As i had said before the manuals are a bit of a dog's breakfast and it is crucial to read them both to get 100% of required info. IMO.

[Osbornsm]

...aaaaand what happens when you boil racing fluid?


fresh Motul RBF600 and foot to the floor on main straight

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by JeromeS13

2018 Chevrolet Camaro Track Preparation Guide, Page 4:

https://my.chevrolet.com/content/dam...tion-guide.pdf

Thanks, I don't know why I don't have this manual, it's different than what came in my car that's for sure

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by mlee

Definitely not true... Do not go to a road track without DOT4... EVER.

Yes, clutch fluid is in the back side of the brake reservoir and there is really no way to completely drain this so there will be some mix, but no big deal. Once you do the next DOT4 flush it will be all gone. These reservoirs co-mingle.

Whether you find this in the manual or not you will find out very quickly that DOT3 will not work well for you on a road track. There is nothing like that feeling of having no brakes at 100 mph.

I asked the GM Engineers why they don't put in DOT4 from the factory with ZL1 cars especially and the answer was DOT3 lasts longer and the masses don't track.

Short Story: I got caught up making plans for CFest 7 a couple years ago and didn't do the brake fluid change, but wasn't planning on much NCM track time anyway since I had to work with vendors and do setup at Beech Bend. I did find some time late afternoon to run over to NCM and make a couple of sessions in my 17 ZL1 and all seemed good. Then I drove it back over to Beech Bend and the autoX track had just been finished and they wanted me to take a quick run and check it out. 1st turn and I almost ended up in the wall with no brakes.

Trust me it doesn't take long to boil DOT3 and loose your brakes.

I have an appointment set for this Friday and going to use Motul 600 for now

How long would you expect Motul 600 Full Synth to last compared to Castrol SRF if I do about one tracking day a month?
I also see Motul 600 and 660, seems the difference is wet vs dry boiling point

I'd go with Castrol SRF but it won't arrive until after my first tracking event, plus the track is low speed with lots of technical corners.
I may switch to Castrol SRF before Area 27 in August

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

Main Owner's Manual page 199. It addresses brake fluid and bedding in process. While DOT4 is not specifically mentioned there, a minimum dry boiling point is.
While there are decent DOT3 * racing * fluids out there and of course higher grade DOT4s, the SRF will give ya the most protection, last all season and require least frequent bleeding. Stock fluid is a street fluid and there is a chance one can boil it and lose the brakes. It is a real risk and nothing I'd recommend for anyone to experience especially early in their track driving career.

PS Not sure why this is not mentioned again in HP Supplement. As i had said before the manuals are a bit of a dog's breakfast and it is crucial to read them both to get 100% of required info. IMO.

Thanks yeah I'm going to print off that Track Prep manual and keep it around!

How long would you expect Motul 600 Full Synth to last compared to Castrol SRF?
I also see Motul 600 and 660, seems the difference is wet vs dry boiling point

[GunMetalGrey]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

It's on page 4 in the Track Preparation Guide

The above recommendation, especially in light of what Badmojo pointed out a couple of posts back, needs to be taken seriously if you're running any hotter than lunch time parade laps at roughly highway speeds. Being "over-prepared" in this respect sure beats being "not quite prepared enough".


Norm

Agreed

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by Osbornsm

...aaaaand what happens when you boil racing fluid?


fresh Motul RBF600 and foot to the floor on main straight

I have read in several car forums now the Motul RBF600 isn't all that great.

The best of the best is Castrol SRF. Do not cheap out on brake fluid. If I were to track my car, I would buy the best. At 100+ and pushing the limits, why take any chance? Use the best right out of the gate.

[Rodan]

Does anyone have any direct, first hand experience with Castrol v. Motul?

I've been running the Motul RBF600 on the track for years and never had anything to complain about. EDIT: had that backwards, nevermind.

I'm not opposed to paying a little more for something better, but it needs to be objectively better...

[JeromeS13]

I've been running Motul RBF600 for years now. I just flush a little before and after each event. No problems yet. Numerous track events.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

I have read in several car forums now the Motul RBF600 isn't all that great.

The best of the best is Castrol SRF. Do not cheap out on brake fluid. If I were to track my car, I would buy the best. At 100+ and pushing the limits, why take any chance? Use the best right out of the gate.

Individual experiences are going to vary as widely as the various cars they drive and what their skill sets otherwise limit them to.

I'm just fine with RBF600 with a little pre-event bleeding with a little over 300 HP to play with on tracks that don't seem to be overly demanding brake-wise (I've even run with ATE200 without any issue). Somebody running with double that HP number on more brake-intensive tracks on hotter days than I can physically stand to be out in, likely not.


Norm

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Individual experiences are going to vary as widely as the various cars they drive and what their skill sets otherwise limit them to.

I'm just fine with RBF600 with a little pre-event bleeding with a little over 300 HP to play with on tracks that don't seem to be overly demanding brake-wise (I've even run with ATE200 without any issue). Somebody running with double that HP number on more brake-intensive tracks on hotter days than I can physically stand to be out in, likely not.


Norm

Yep. I'd say a pad type has a lot to do with it (and type of venue, pace, etc - of course).
Aggressive, high torque pad will heat things up in a hurry and hence require better fluid. I had run inexpensive DOT3 Willwood 570 with stock pads with zero issues. Having said that it requires more frequent bleeding. This season i am switching to SRF as i have bought it already and also have a set of DTC60s sitting on a shelf that i need to use up!

[Lafourche1]

FWIW I've run RBF 600 in perhaps 15 track events, some 3 days in length, in both my '16 Camaro SS and my '18 ZL1. I've had to change pads and rotors, but never had brake fluid issues. I always bleed a little before and after the event.

I am NOT the fastest of the fast. I am not the slowest, either (HPDE II & HPDE III),

RBF 600 is fine. If concerned then step up to Castrol SRF. Nothing wrong with going with the best if you feel better about the choice.

[Ryephile]

Originally Posted by Rodan

Does anyone have any direct, first hand experience with Castrol v. Motul?

I've been running the Motul RBF600 on the track for years and never had anything to complain about. EDIT: had that backwards, nevermind.

I'm not opposed to paying a little more for something better, but it needs to be objectively better...

Motul RBF600 is an excellent DOT4, probably the "best of the rest". It has excellent pedal feel, and for the vast majority of applications its wet boiling point is more than enough. Getting your calipers hotter than RBF600's wet boiling point starts melting piston seals and turning pretty red powder coating brown, and if your calipers are getting that hot it's because you're over-using the brakes, and/or they're being under-cooled (whether it's from lack of aero cooling or induced heat from poor pad insulation).

If you go to a motorcycle track day, a big chunk of the bikes have RBF600 in the reservoirs. I've also used it in many track cars over the years. It's a major step up from ATE Typ 200 in both performance and price.

Castrol SRF is more expensive up front, but it's significantly higher wet boiling point also means that it's nearly impossible to boil it without also causing heat-induced damage to your calipers. A side benefit is it'll last the season with no functional degradation in performance. No other brake fluid can honestly claim this. This makes the long-term cost lower. My only complaint with SRF is the pedal feel is more compressible compared to RBF600, similar to Typ 200. IMO, the thermal capability and full-season longevity outweigh this minor niggle.