[Ethanolic]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

Are you seriously kidding me here? The tires were NOT the reason. Yes, they did impact it, but there was more to it than just tires. The brakes on the GT 500 weren't up to par with what the vehicle needed. That is something that Ford has rectified with the new GT500 (those are massive btw). Yes, putting small tires on the car was stupid, and that again is also being rectified. We've seen the same issues on Hellcats..

Ford is also fixing the tire issue as well, which will make it better. However, I do say that it will be interesting to see how well the PS4S match up on the track versus the ZL1's standard GY3's...

The brakes weren’t sufficiently cooled for track duty, but they were good enough to run a fast lap at most tracks. The 265/285 Goodyear’s weren’t in the same galaxy as the 305 Trofeos though. That plus stick axle gave it no chance vs the Z28. 1000hp wouldn’t have helped the GT500.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

The 2013 GT500 lost because Ford decided to put inferior tires on the car. 285/255s general summer performance tires on a 662-hp car was and is ridiculous. It is ridiculous on my Boss never mind the GT500. Ford has since gotten a bit smarter and now has competitive tire packages on their track version cars.

Why did the GT350R lose to the ZL1? The GT350R had

• 19-inch Carbon Fiber wheels
• Michelin Piolt Sport Cup 2 tires
• 5.2 L flat plane crank engine with 8,250 rpm red line. Application specific compare to the ZL1's "antiquated truck engine"
• 3.73 TORSEN limited-slip rear axle
• MagneRide

The ZL1 is a grand touring car on heavy 20" rims with Goodyear tires

[NW-99SS]

Who's fault is it when a manufacturer selects a certain tire for the track package?

We all recognize the increase in PP2 capabilities which are mostly associated to tire. Sadly, it won't make more than 3 hotlaps without a tow truck...I suppose that's the 1LE's fault?

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Why did the GT350R lose to the ZL1? The GT350R had

• 19-inch Carbon Fiber wheels
• Michelin Piolt Sport Cup 2 tires
• 5.2 L flat plane crank engine with 8,250 rpm red line. Application specific compare to the ZL1's "antiquated truck engine"
• 3.73 TORSEN limited-slip rear axle
• MagneRide

The ZL1 is a grand touring car on heavy 20" rims with Goodyear tires

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Go back and read the article. It lost due to the ZL1's 124 horsepower and 221 lb ft power advantage. Per MT article "The Camaro is dramatically faster on the front straight"

We will soon see how big a difference hp makes when the GT500 hits the track, and the tables are turned.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Why did the GT350R lose to the ZL1? The GT350R had

• 19-inch Carbon Fiber wheels
• Michelin Piolt Sport Cup 2 tires
• 5.2 L flat plane crank engine with 8,250 rpm red line. Application specific compare to the ZL1's "antiquated truck engine"
• 3.73 TORSEN limited-slip rear axle
• MagneRide

The ZL1 is a grand touring car on heavy 20" rims with Goodyear tires

Because the alpha is a superior platform. yes the 350R had a ton of advantages as a track car but the answer is in the alpha platform. The SS 1LE already was at near 5th gen Z/28 levels which put it right behind the 350R despite being down on power, so of course adding 200HP to that platform was going beat Ford's track car even in grand touring form. That's how good the alpha is

[Ethanolic]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Why did the GT350R lose to the ZL1? The GT350R had

• 19-inch Carbon Fiber wheels
• Michelin Piolt Sport Cup 2 tires
• 5.2 L flat plane crank engine with 8,250 rpm red line. Application specific compare to the ZL1's "antiquated truck engine"
• 3.73 TORSEN limited-slip rear axle
• MagneRide

The ZL1 is a grand touring car on heavy 20" rims with Goodyear tires

Not sure your serious but I’ll bite...

1) what’s the weight difference in the wheels and what does that translate to in lap times?
2) how much better are the cups vs the SC3’s? I’ve read 1LE owners claiming no discernible gain and the fact that the ZLE runs the Goodyear’s lends credence that the Cup 2’s aren’t much better.
3) huge power disparity
4) Torsen vs ELSD the Ediff must have the advantage or GM likes unnecessary complications
4) Magneride... yeah they both have it.

End of day the 350 was quicker in the turns but got run down in the straights

[Ethanolic]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Who's fault is it when a manufacturer selects a certain tire for the track package?

We all recognize the increase in PP2 capabilities which are mostly associated to tire. Sadly, it won't make more than 3 hotlaps without a tow truck...I suppose that's the 1LE's fault?

I don’t think anyone is placing fault , merely pointing out the facts that led to the results

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by newmoon

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Go back and read the article. It lost due to the ZL1's 124 horsepower and 221 lb ft power advantage. Per MT article "The Camaro is dramatically faster on the front straight"

We will soon see how big a difference hp makes when the GT500 hits the track, and the tables are turned.

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

Not sure your serious but I’ll bite...

3) huge power disparity


End of day the 350 was quicker in the turns but got run down in the straights

I just find it ironic that the old GT500 couldn't beat the Z/28 despite having 151 HP more...but when Ford puts out its best track car ever, it couldnt beat the touring edition ZL1...despite having some weight and performance advantages. Yes, the Camaro has more power/torque...but thats pretty much always been the case in the torque department with the current version of 5.0 motors...

We'll have to see how well the new GT500 handles before I'm going to say much more about it..

VIR - GT350R was 6.1 seconds slower than the manual ZL1 1LE... but at the same token... an Alpha based V6 1LE Camaro was 4 seconds slower than a 2013 GT500....

The track tests are going to be awesome to watch is all I know..

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

I just find it ironic that the old GT500 couldn't beat the Z/28 despite having 151 HP more...but when Ford puts out its best track car ever, it couldnt beat the touring edition ZL1...despite having some weight and performance advantages. Yes, the Camaro has more power/torque...but thats pretty much always been the case in the torque department with the current version of 5.0 motors...

We'll have to see how well the new GT500 handles before I'm going to say much more about it..

VIR - GT350R was 6.1 seconds slower than the manual ZL1 1LE... but at the same token... an Alpha based V6 1LE Camaro was 4 seconds slower than a 2013 GT500....

The track tests are going to be awesome to watch is all I know..

5th gen to 5th gen, the Z/28 was lighter, had a light years better suspension set up, some of the best tires ever made, and carbon ceramic brakes. 5th gen GT500 beat the ZL1 on some tracks strictly because of the power advantage because that was really Ford's only option was to overpower the competition.

Now 6th gen to 6th gen, we saw the SS 1LE was right there behind the GT350R because it was damn near 5th gen Z/28 levels of performance and attribute most of that to the capabilites of the alpha platform. Adding 200 HP to that recipe shouldn't shock anyone it beat fords track car.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

Are you seriously kidding me here? The tires were NOT the reason. Yes, they did impact it, but there was more to it than just tires. The brakes on the GT 500 weren't up to par with what the vehicle needed. That is something that Ford has rectified with the new GT500 (those are massive btw). Yes, putting small tires on the car was stupid, and that again is also being rectified. We've seen the same issues on Hellcats..

Ford is also fixing the tire issue as well, which will make it better. However, I do say that it will be interesting to see how well the PS4S match up on the track versus the ZL1's standard GY3's...

The Camaro is the only vehicle out of the three that comes with proper tires, cooling, handles great, is fast in a straight line, and is priced appropriately.

Originally Posted by hotlap

Why did the GT350R lose to the ZL1? The GT350R had

• 19-inch Carbon Fiber wheels
• Michelin Piolt Sport Cup 2 tires
• 5.2 L flat plane crank engine with 8,250 rpm red line. Application specific compare to the ZL1's "antiquated truck engine"
• 3.73 TORSEN limited-slip rear axle
• MagneRide

The ZL1 is a grand touring car on heavy 20" rims with Goodyear tires

Well their excuse...they accused the testers of using the same same tires from a previous test and the tires were worn out. If it weren't for that then the GT350R would have lapped the ZL1 twice.

Originally Posted by newmoon

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Go back and read the article. It lost due to the ZL1's 124 horsepower and 221 lb ft power advantage. Per MT article "The Camaro is dramatically faster on the front straight"

We will soon see how big a difference hp makes when the GT500 hits the track, and the tables are turned.

Didn't the Shelby carry much more speed thru the corners or some shit tho? And with it's higher revving engine, if it came out of those corners at higher speed and in the higher RPMs, wouldn't they have had more RPM to work with since it's power band is 4K-8250?

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Ethanolic

Not sure your serious but I’ll bite...

1) what’s the weight difference in the wheels and what does that translate to in lap times?
2) how much better are the cups vs the SC3’s? I’ve read 1LE owners claiming no discernible gain and the fact that the ZLE runs the Goodyear’s lends credence that the Cup 2’s aren’t much better.
3) huge power disparity
4) Torsen vs ELSD the Ediff must have the advantage or GM likes unnecessary complications
4) Magneride... yeah they both have it.

End of day the 350 was quicker in the turns but got run down in the straights

Wheels are rotational weight. So a small weight difference improves exponentially.

The GT350R getting run down in the straights proves that Ford did a terrible job or was foolhardy in their decision to build a car like the GT350(R). That is Ford's fault. And it proves that a track car will always get beat by a car that is simply better built. GM went to extra lengths in building the ZL1. It is a well balanced machine. More so than anything Ford has. Sure it made compromises to negate the extra weight and such. But end of the day it proved to be a superior car.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

I just find it ironic that the old GT500 couldn't beat the Z/28 despite having 151 HP more...but when Ford puts out its best track car ever, it couldnt beat the touring edition ZL1...despite having some weight and performance advantages. Yes, the Camaro has more power/torque...but thats pretty much always been the case in the torque department with the current version of 5.0 motors...

We'll have to see how well the new GT500 handles before I'm going to say much more about it..

VIR - GT350R was 6.1 seconds slower than the manual ZL1 1LE... but at the same token... an Alpha based V6 1LE Camaro was 4 seconds slower than a 2013 GT500....

The track tests are going to be awesome to watch is all I know..

You all sound silly calling the ZL1 a "Grand Tourer" or "Touring Edition" car. We all know the ZL1 is a much more track focused car than the 13/14 GT500 ever was.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

You all sound silly calling the ZL1 a "Grand Tourer" or "Touring Edition" car. We all know the ZL1 is a much more track focused car than the 13/14 GT500 ever was.

And apparently it was a better "track car" than Ford's official track car. LOL!! Is that GM's fault that the ZL1 is just that good?

It also was a better "drag car" than the 15-17 Hellcat stock for stock. Should we call it a drag car??

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Wheels are rotational weight. So a small weight difference improves exponentially.

The GT350R getting run down in the straights proves that Ford did a terrible job or was foolhardy in their decision to build a car like the GT350(R). That is Ford's fault. And it proves that a track car will always get beat by a car that is simply better built. GM went to extra lengths in building the ZL1. It is a well balanced machine. More so than anything Ford has. Sure it made compromises to negate the extra weight and such. But end of the day it proved to be a superior car.

Here you go again. You act like they built the R in response to the 6th Gen ZL1. The R beat the Z28 at both turning and acceleration so it did its job at the time for less money (as you constantly point out). It getting run down in the straights by a car that came out after it doesn't prove anything except that GM knew what they needed to build to beat it, and they did, barely with the ZL1 (until the ZLE). Hence, the new GT500. We'll see what happens.

Why don't you ever question GM for the high price of the Z28, which got beat by the less expensive R?