[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Where the hell has newmoon been??

It is odd that he hasn't commented on sales in a while.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

It is odd that he hasn't commented on sales in a while.

As well as the 0.1 sec advantage of the GT*.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Where the hell has newmoon been??

Originally Posted by Chadicus

It is odd that he hasn't commented on sales in a while.

Originally Posted by hotlap

As well as the 0.1 sec advantage of the GT*.

You guys are familiar with the urban legend "Candyman", right? Say his name three times and he appears....and he won't be nice

[Craig]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Is that what I said? No. It wasn't. I said that the 7th Gen Camaro is a sure thing. It will be here for 2022. Do we know if the S650 will be here or will it still be S550? Will a new Gen Challenger show up? Who knows. But for an absolute fact, there will be a 7th Gen Camaro in 2022. So if Mustang and Challenger are such huge successes, how come nobody knows what they'll have for purchase in 2022?

I think you are 100% right about the 7th gen. For long as Cadillac intends to sell sedans there will be a Camaro built into the business case to mitigate the R&D costs of the platform. Not only that, Cadillac is benchmarking Audi, Mercedes, Lexus, etc. when engineering their architecture and all those improvements drop straight down to Camaro. And it’s the exact same situation with the powertrain thanks to Corvette. When it comes to performance value for the dollar, The LT2 powered 7th gen on an updated Alpha platform is going to wipe the slate clean.

Meanwhile, Mustang and Challenger will continue to ride on orphaned platforms for the foreseeable future, platforms that are already notably inferior to Alpha. I expect the advantages Camaro already has in terms of chassis dynamics will only get wider in the coming years.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by Craig

I think you are 100% right about the 7th gen. For long as Cadillac intends to sell sedans there will be a Camaro built into the business case to mitigate the R&D costs of the platform. Not only that, Cadillac is benchmarking Audi, Mercedes, Lexus, etc. when engineering their architecture and all those improvements drop straight down to Camaro. And it’s the exact same situation with the powertrain thanks to Corvette. When it comes to performance value for the dollar, The LT2 powered 7th gen on an updated Alpha platform is going to wipe the slate clean.

Meanwhile, Mustang and Challenger will continue to ride on orphaned platforms for the foreseeable future, platforms that are already notably inferior to Alpha. I expect the advantages Camaro already has in terms of chassis dynamics will only get wider in the coming years.

DO NOT expect the magnitude of change / improvement from Gen 6 to Gen 7 that was delivered going from Gen 5 to Gen 6. Going from Alpha to Alpha2 is evolutionary. Going from Zeta to Alpha was revolutionary. Meanwhile, Dodge and Ford have more room for improvement, especially if Dodge ever implements the Giulia's Giorgio platform. Think of how much Mustang gained going from 6AT to 10AT compared to what Camaro gained going from 8AT to 10AT. Similar potentials for improvement on a chassis basis with evolutionary improvements.

[JhonnyGTR]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

You guys are familiar with the urban legend "Candyman", right? Say his name three times and he appears....and he won't be nice

[Craig]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

DO NOT expect the magnitude of change / improvement from Gen 6 to Gen 7 that was delivered going from Gen 5 to Gen 6. Going from Alpha to Alpha2 is evolutionary. Going from Zeta to Alpha was revolutionary. Meanwhile, Dodge and Ford have more room for improvement, especially if Dodge ever implements the Giulia's Giorgio platform. Think of how much Mustang gained going from 6AT to 10AT compared to what Camaro gained going from 8AT to 10AT. Similar potentials for improvement on a chassis basis with evolutionary improvements.

Having more room for improvement is just another way of saying the car doesn’t perform as well. Having more potential for improvement is something completely different. S550 has already been through multiple cycle enhancements just to be competitive with Alpha 1.0. Every platform can be improved, but the easy improvements to S550 have already been made. GM has not even begun to improve Alpha, which was designed to underpin much more expensive cars to begin with.

[BlaqWhole]

As of right now the Mustang performs very well and on par with the Camaro. The problem is that it took them too long and too much to get to this point. The Camaro on the other hand had already been at this point for a while and needed no changes. And how much further can Ford push that 5.0? The 7th Gen Camaro should get the same 500 HP NA V8 engine that will be in the C8 Vette. Will the 5.0 be able to make that kind of power safely and reliably?

[BlaqWhole]

Going back to Redeye MSRP. I just did a build. After matching the options I have on my Hellcat to a Redeye WB the price went from $73K to $89K. My HC MSRP with full options was $71K. So basically a RE WB is a $19K increase over my Hellcat with the same options. And that 90 extra HP does not even translate to RWHP.

[wnta1ss]

Originally Posted by hotlap

As well as the 0.1 sec advantage of the GT*.

Fake news. I have seen these supposedly magical Performance Pack Coyotes out there, and they still are a little behind the SS on the dragstrip in the real world.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by hotlap

As well as the 0.1 sec advantage of the GT*.

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

Fake news. I have seen these supposedly magical Performance Pack Coyotes out there, and they still are a little behind the SS on the dragstrip in the real world.

That is the point of hotlap's "*". You have to have a very specific configuration. When I've gone out and checked content of GTs on dealer lots in my area (spitting distance from Ford World HQ and the Flat Rock Mustang plant) only 4 of 28 GTs had the * configuration.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

Fake news. I have seen these supposedly magical Performance Pack Coyotes out there, and they still are a little behind the SS on the dragstrip in the real world.

Well not only do they need the PP1 and the A10 they also have to be in drag mode and on a prepped surface.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

Fake news. I have seen these supposedly magical Performance Pack Coyotes out there, and they still are a little behind the SS on the dragstrip in the real world.

That is because it has to be optioned a certain way to get those results. Whereas with the SS you can just pick any one without having to add in a special set of options. So the results you see in mags are when the GT comes with all the options it needs to run those times. WHen you're at the track however you are not likely to see one with all those options. So you'll see them doing mid to high 12s like they did when they first showed up. Once the top guys figured out that they had to get one with all the options is when people like Evans started driving halfway across the country to get those few specific trims and then took them to the best tracks during the best times of the year to get those runs. Under normal conditions you will not see them run those times.

[Ethanolic]

You guys are seriously in denial if you think any configuration of A10 GT besides maybe one on 235 all seasons is slower than any SS.