[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I think sometimes you and others forget the main reasons why people pay markups on certain vehicles. They do it because they think the vehicle will double or triple in value. I had one guy brag about getting a Demon at $40K over MSRP and he said it would be worth it because the car was going to make him money in the end. I'd feel bad for him right about now. Same goes with the Shelbys. People don't pay markups because there is some mystical quality to Mustangs. They pay it because they believe it will increase in value. That is why markups disappear after 2 years when the values don't increase. Same car. Just not the same value. If it was something about the car then the markups would never disappear. But that isn't the case at all.

I think you're just trying to give us a dose of our own medicine (as it were). The C8 will be the underdog considering that the GT500 will have a huge HP advantage, CF stuff, and is supposed to be the top of the top. A standard Vette, while potent, is NOT the top Vette. There is the Z51, GS, Z06, and the ZR1s. So really the bottom level Vette should not be beating the top Mustang especially in the same MY and especially when being overpowered by 200+ HP. The way I see it is that if the GT500 beats the Vette then it really should have. If the GT500 loses then that looks bad. It will not look bad for the standard Vette to lose to anything. My expectations is that it will beat the current ZL1's performance numbers in a straight line and will hang around a track which will be impressive for a NA 500 HP Vette.

The first part of your post. I wasn't trying to say that people will be stupid and keep paying markups because of the car. I thought you were implying that because it's taken so long to come out, and reveal info people will lose interest in the GT500 and not care about it's #'s. I was simply saying that it will still draw plenty of interest.

If it seems that way maybe I am just excited about the C8 lol. I probably shouldn't have said disappointed but lets say it wouldn't shock me if the C8 outperformed a lot of cars, the GT500 included. Now i don't know if it could do it in a straightline but around track that really wouldn't surprise me.

We know it's going to handle amazing because that's just what team corvette does, it's going to be at least several hundred pounds lighter than the GT500. A C7 Z51 weighs what 3400 pounds? GM lately has been pretty good about cars not getting to much heavier so even if gains 200 pounds. It could still be 5-600 pounds lighter than the GT500 if the estimated 4100 pounds weight is right. the mid engine layout means it should be able to put it's power down incredibly well. Those are some pretty big things that could give the C8 a big advantage. And it may shock you, I'm a corvette guy lol. Always had a thing for Corvette's and as much as I try to keep my expectations for things in check the C8 is one I think my excitement is getting to me lol.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by shaffe

The first part of your post. I wasn't trying to say that people will be stupid and keep paying markups because of the car. I thought you were implying that because it's taken so long to come out, and reveal info people will lose interest in the GT500 and not care about it's #'s. I was simply saying that it will still draw plenty of interest.

If it seems that way maybe I am just excited about the C8 lol. I probably shouldn't have said disappointed but lets say it wouldn't shock me if the C8 outperformed a lot of cars, the GT500 included. Now i don't know if it could do it in a straightline but around track that really wouldn't surprise me.

We know it's going to handle amazing because that's just what team corvette does, it's going to be at least several hundred pounds lighter than the GT500. A C7 Z51 weighs what 3400 pounds? GM lately has been pretty good about cars not getting to much heavier so even if gains 200 pounds. It could still be 5-600 pounds lighter than the GT500 if the estimated 4100 pounds weight is right. the mid engine layout means it should be able to put it's power down incredibly well. Those are some pretty big things that could give the C8 a big advantage. And it may shock you, I'm a corvette guy lol. Always had a thing for Corvette's and as much as I try to keep my expectations for things in check the C8 is one I think my excitement is getting to me lol.

You're not alone, I have very high expectations for every model of the mid-engine Vette. I think it is going to dominate cars with MUCH higher HP, and would not be shocked if the base C8 gave the GT500 a run for its money in every performance category.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by rocket403

The Redeye is using the Demon engine and not the same unit that is in the Hellcat

"So they plunked the Demon's supercharged V-8, eight-speed automatic, and driveline bits—including the line lock and launch control but not the trans brake—into a Hellcat and added the Redeye suffix to differentiate it from lesser 707-hp (and now 717-hp) Hellcats.

Blame the Redeye's twin-snorkel hood for its slightly reduced 797-hp output. Even with the driver's-side headlamp void and an inlet near the front-left wheel liner supplementing the air supply, Dodge had to recalibrate the engine for the reduced airflow. Running race gas won't get you any more grunt, as the Redeye's ECU isn't equipped to conjure up the Demon's extra 32 ponies when fed high test."

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...e-first-drive/

Despite what they claim, the RE still isn't making significant HP over the HC when dynoed. HCs are in the 650-680 range while REs are in the 680 range and a little higher. And from what I understand they aren't doing much better in the quarter mile either.

Originally Posted by shaffe

If it seems that way maybe I am just excited about the C8 lol. I probably shouldn't have said disappointed but lets say it wouldn't shock me if the C8 outperformed a lot of cars, the GT500 included. Now i don't know if it could do it in a straightline but around track that really wouldn't surprise me.

I was just messin with ya. I do think the C8 will be an animal. And I do think it'll give it to the other more powerful cars. We'll see.

Incidentally I am seriously considering a ME Vette. Or even a current Z06. I gotta bring my ZL1 up to the dealership where I got it from and chat with my salesman friend tomorrow...and might not be coming back home with it. I'm excited but sad.

[rocket403]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Despite what they claim, the RE still isn't making significant HP over the HC when dynoed. HCs are in the 650-680 range while REs are in the 680 range and a little higher. And from what I understand they aren't doing much better in the quarter mile either.

The Redeye has been out for a relativity short time and we have yet to see what they can do at the track as the summer gets closer we will see more 1/4 times. To make a blanket statement based on what some dyno numbers is a bit much.

From what I have seen the Hellcats are low 11's high 10's and Redeyes will be mid 10's

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by shaffe

You and Blaq keep saying the Redeye is 90K car. It starts MSRP at 73,190
https://www.dodge.com/build.challeng...SE,27Z,3EJ,APA

You have to load it with practically every option to get it to 90. Widebody package, technology package, premium paint, premium leather, premium package, painted satin black graphics package

I am still going to the guess the base GT500 splits the ZL1 and ZLE in MSRP.

I keep going back to they undercut the Z/28 MSRP by 12K with the GT350R. I think they know where this car needs to sit MSRP wise.

A Redeye without the widebody packaged makes as much sense as the 2016 GT350 did without coolers (track package). It makes for a low msrp headline, but is no way to order the car. Add the $6,000 widebody package and you’re starting at $79,190, including destination.

That, in my opinion, should be the msrp benchmark for the GT500.

Edit: this will be affirmed when the cars are tested. No way Dodge is sending a non-widebody

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by rocket403

The Redeye has been out for a relativity short time and we have yet to see what they can do at the track as the summer gets closer we will see more 1/4 times. To make a blanket statement based on what some dyno numbers is a bit much.

From what I have seen the Hellcats are low 11's high 10's and Redeyes will be mid 10's

Nothing of what I said was a blanket statement. REs have been dynoing in the 680s and higher whereas HCs have been in the 650s-680s and some higher. So how does a car with 90 more HP not make much more when dynoed? Like I said, the HCs must have been severely underrated and are really closer to 780 as opposed to 707. Or the REs were overrated. But numbers don't lie and the HP difference is not proportionate to what an engine with an extra 90 HP should be making.

Also I said "from what I understand". So how is that a blanket statement? It was based off what I have seen, heard, and interpreted. If you saw something different then good for you. But go on the Hellcat FB pages and forums and ask around. Most people will tell you that the RE is not significantly faster, IF faster at all, over the HC.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Despite what they claim, the RE still isn't making significant HP over the HC when dynoed. HCs are in the 650-680 range while REs are in the 680 range and a little higher. And from what I understand they aren't doing much better in the quarter mile either.

I was just messin with ya. I do think the C8 will be an animal. And I do think it'll give it to the other more powerful cars. We'll see.

Incidentally I am seriously considering a ME Vette. Or even a current Z06. I gotta bring my ZL1 up to the dealership where I got it from and chat with my salesman friend tomorrow...and might not be coming back home with it. I'm excited but sad.

If you bring home a C7 Z06, I doubt you'll think much about the ZL1. At least if it was me, I don't think I would. The C7 Z06 is a beast. I'm already getting excited about the ME Vette bringing down the price of used C7 Z06s, and maybe in a few years...problem is I'll need a back seat for at least, oh, another 15 years or so.

Fun fact: Did anyone remember that Motor Trend ran a 2006 Corvette Z06: 0-60 in 3.5 seconds and 1/4 mile in 11.5 @ 127.1 mpg. 127 mph!! 505 hp. 3,147 lbs. Now that's a beast. That's darn near C7 Z06 acceleration with 145 less hp. I love N/A engines. That's why I'm thinking I'll eventually do a full heads/cam/bolt on with my Gen 3 Coyote 5.0 going for 600 crank hp (after warranty expires in 2024!) in lieu of a 700+ hp S/C.

[RobbyBeefcake87]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

If you bring home a C7 Z06, I doubt you'll think much about the ZL1. At least if it was me, I don't think I would. The C7 Z06 is a beast. I'm already getting excited about the ME Vette bringing down the price of used C7 Z06s, and maybe in a few years...problem is I'll need a back seat for at least, oh, another 15 years or so.

Fun fact: Did anyone remember that Motor Trend ran a 2006 Corvette Z06: 0-60 in 3.5 seconds and 1/4 mile in 11.5 @ 127.1 mpg. 127 mph!! 505 hp. 3,147 lbs. Now that's a beast. That's darn near C7 Z06 acceleration with 145 less hp. I love N/A engines. That's why I'm thinking I'll eventually do a full heads/cam/bolt on with my Gen 3 Coyote 5.0 going for 600 crank hp (after warranty expires in 2024!) in lieu of a 700+ hp S/C.

This is the way to go imo. I plan on going the same route, 500ish with fbo then eventually 600ish max effort h/c. After or near warranty expiration of course.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Despite what they claim, the RE still isn't making significant HP over the HC when dynoed. HCs are in the 650-680 range while REs are in the 680 range and a little higher. And from what I understand they aren't doing much better in the quarter mile either.

I was just messin with ya. I do think the C8 will be an animal. And I do think it'll give it to the other more powerful cars. We'll see.

Incidentally I am seriously considering a ME Vette. Or even a current Z06. I gotta bring my ZL1 up to the dealership where I got it from and chat with my salesman friend tomorrow...and might not be coming back home with it. I'm excited but sad.

Ha. Yeah I am expecting the C8 to be an animal. After decades of it possibly happening, it's finally happening. I think they are really going to want to make a statement with it.

Originally Posted by hotlap

A Redeye without the widebody packaged makes as much sense as the 2016 GT350 did without coolers (track package). It makes for a low msrp headline, but is no way to order the car. Add the $6,000 widebody package and you’re starting at $79,190, including destination.

That, in my opinion, should be the msrp benchmark for the GT500.

Edit: this will be affirmed when the cars are tested. No way Dodge is sending a non-widebody

Which still proves my point that it's not a 90K car lol.

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Which still proves my point that it's not a 90K car lol.

Still almost 20k more expensive than a ZL1 however..

[NW-99SS]

Well since we are on the topic of Corvettes...

I have high expectation for the C8 - some of which are already getting let down. I don't like the steering wheel 2 spoke design, reminds me of the wheel in my 4th gen which isn't "pretty" by any standard. Also, no manual rumor, much like the GT500 means I won't own one. I know the GT500 Ford Boss says they might consider it, I haven't heard anything positive from either C8 or GT500 camp for a manual offering. Other than that, the latest renderings are pretty good, and I think from a performance standpoint it will be highly capable. I still might end up looking for a used C7 ZR1 as I think they will hold value extremely well being the last big HP V8 with a manual from GM in the traditional Corvette layout.

I am excited to see Zora's dream finally be realized, only with he was around to experience it.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by NW-99SS

Well since we are on the topic of Corvettes...

I have high expectation for the C8 - some of which are already getting let down. I don't like the steering wheel 2 spoke design, reminds me of the wheel in my 4th gen which isn't "pretty" by any standard. Also, no manual rumor, much like the GT500 means I won't own one. I know the GT500 Ford Boss says they might consider it, I haven't heard anything positive from either C8 or GT500 camp for a manual offering. Other than that, the latest renderings are pretty good, and I think from a performance standpoint it will be highly capable. I still might end up looking for a used C7 ZR1 as I think they will hold value extremely well being the last big HP V8 with a manual from GM in the traditional Corvette layout.

I am excited to see Zora's dream finally be realized, only with he was around to experience it.

I love my manual but the fact is the autos are simply better for performance. Just the way it is. I'm not disappointed in having a DCT in the 500 and the C8.

The C8 should be awesome. I hope I'm not over-hyping it.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

Still almost 20k more expensive than a ZL1 however..

I assume Ford is making the Hellcat/Redeye the main competitor to the 500. They likely wont be aiming at the track performance of the ZL1 never mind the ZLE. The 500 really has to be faster than the Redeye to be considered a success in my mind. And I expect the pricing to start around 80k.

However I have kinda lost interest. C8 looks outstanding thus far and I'm more interested in that then a 80k Mustang.

[NW-99SS]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

I love my manual but the fact is the autos are simply better for performance. Just the way it is. I'm not disappointed in having a DCT in the 500 and the C8.

The C8 should be awesome. I hope I'm not over-hyping it.

I don't compete in any competitions where I would win money. So I would rather continue to improve my driving skills, than have electronics do it for me. I know I'm old school and the minority, and I'm fine with that. To be completely honest, the manual versions of the highest performing Camaros and Corvettes are still within tenths of a second on road courses in the hands of skilled drivers...so the real advantage of auto and DCT is to those less skilled - where the auto allows them to be faster than they would be in a manual.