01-28-2019, 08:42 PM | #701 | |
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01-28-2019, 08:51 PM | #702 |
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I hope the GT500 beats the ZLE, and gives Chevy a reason to drop the LT5 into the Camaro.. Would be a good way for the 6th gen to (potentially) go out on top.
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01-28-2019, 09:32 PM | #703 |
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I would not be surprised to see LT5 in a Camaro, but I wouldn’t expect it in Gen 6. It’s okay for Camaro to share an engine with Z06. Not so much ZR1. When ZR1 finishes its run, LT5 becomes a “free agent” and can land in a number of places. A Cadillac? Like CT5-V? Or Escalade-V? Or a Cadillac sports car? Definitely a Camaro. But ZR1 has to be dormant for that to happen. We’re talking 2021-22. And that would be likely timing for CA7.
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01-28-2019, 10:13 PM | #704 | |
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As far as "If it makes a profit does it justify its continuation?" Thats depends I suppose, If GM feels they could produce another vehicle that would cost similarly in R&D/tooling but sell much more and return more profit then no it doesn't warrant continuation. Same for Mustang, but I believe there is more at stake with axing Mustang for Ford. |
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01-28-2019, 10:58 PM | #705 |
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Jesus, these Ford guys are annoying. I wonder how Subaru has been able to keep the Legacy around selling 20-60k a year when Honda sells 300k Accords. I mean, how is that possible? It's being outsold 5 fold at the very least. Should have been dead 10 years ago going by logic spewed by some that come on here.
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01-29-2019, 12:05 AM | #706 | |
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GM is not going to drop the Camaro for some new model and to suggest that is a bit off if you ask me. Neither will Ford drop the Mustang. If you recall, they tried that back in the 90s with the Probe to which they received a very bad reaction and decided against it. I could see GM adding a better selling car to the lineup. Or adopting some features or even calling it a "Camaro". But they are not gonna drop the Camaro for a different model. It isn't hard to believe that GM covered the R&D costs. They already had the LT1 and LT4 developed since it was in the Corvettes first. Same with the A8 trans. The chassis was shared. The A10 trans was co-developed. And they did not do any crazy revisions...certainly not having to re-build the entire car mid-Gen like Frod had to do with the Mustang. There were no recalls to the extent that Frod had with the GT350 that I remember. So all those items saves on costs tremendously. Running an efficient production plant saves also. So for all you know, GM could have spent very little on the Camaro and therefore only needs to sell a small amount of them to pull a profit. Perhaps the Mustang HAS to sell as much as possible to stay afloat. Perhaps Frod had to allow their engineers to build the PP2 off the books and off the clock and then decided not to throw coolers on it because they could not afford the costs of doing all that. Perhaps the GT500 was delayed due to costs and them not being able to afford to build it. There are soo many things that one could speculate. But if the Camaro is doing as badly as you wanna believe, then why isn't GM budging on price, offering more incentives, aggressively advertising it, etc?? If sales are that poor, wouldn't someone start doing something?? |
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01-29-2019, 05:30 AM | #707 |
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The sad thing is that the ZLE took the top honors in handling while the Hellcat and Redeye took top honors in straight line work. Each of those two have been out all this time. The GT500 after 6 years of development might not claim top honors in either category at all. Plus GM released the ZL1 in 17 followed by the ZLE in 18 all the while Ford was still working on the PP2, Bullitt, and GT500. So how much time has GM had to build something killer for the 7th Gen VS the little bit of time Ford will have. Whatever the GT500 does, it will be short-lived. Like maybe a year or two. GM will put out something for the 7th Gen to smack it right back down and take the crown again. And then they'll move on to the next one while Ford will be stuck playing catch up yet again. All of this is another reason why Ford failed with the S550.
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01-29-2019, 06:26 AM | #708 | |
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GM needs Camaro as long as they want to be in the high end coupe/sedan segment with Cadillac. Mustang is rumored to share a SUV chassis (right?). Mustang could very well de-emphasis performance. Ala Mustang II. This is why I smh with all the Camaro will be discontinued celebrations. This whole segment is underperforming and none will survive to see 2028 at 2018 volumes.
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01-29-2019, 07:27 AM | #709 | |
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Please describe your Failed with the S550 statement? It has sold almost 3x as many Mustangs as Camaros. The fastest GT is presently faster than the SS by allot as reviewed and has been for nearly 2 years. The GT350 has received praise throughout the automotive world at introduction and continues to do so as the car you want. The only folks calling it a failure are within this forum. The 500 will soon be released and will likely be faster than anything the Camaro has to offer in any trim level. So IMO it is the Camaro presently failing or clinging to the life raft. Its 3-year dominance in the segment is over.
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01-29-2019, 07:38 AM | #710 | |
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01-29-2019, 07:40 AM | #711 | |
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GT is faster but only after redesigning the entire car from the ground up. It spent most of it's life getting destroyed. The 370Z was more a match for the GT than the GT was for the SS, lol!! Even after the extensive rebuild it still suffered many engine problems. The PP2 coolers fiasco. The list goes on. I can round off several things. All you can mention is sales, lol, which we all know means nothing. The GT500 is the only saving grace and even it won't be top dog in any of the categories that matter except for being the most expensive, the longest to develop, and having the highest markups. And who knows what engine, trans, suspension, problems will plague even that thing. |
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01-29-2019, 07:43 AM | #712 | |
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From a strategic point of view, Alpha is here to stay because Cadillac is Alpha and Chi (XT5 / XT6). GM will work hard to improve the products position in the marketplace before considering shutting it down. To that extent, Camaro provides a volume relief valve. More volume is better, low volume does not mean kill.
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01-29-2019, 07:46 AM | #713 | |
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If the Camaro's dominance being possibly at an end is a sign of failure, then how can the Mustang taking this long to be competitive not a failure? You LOVE talking about how one specific configuration of the Mustang GT is 'a lot' faster than any Camaro SS. Why is a lack of a competitive manual GT not a failure? Oops, I forgot we don't dare acknowledge the existence of the Manual GT due to its utterly embarrassing performance numbers. You wear rose colored glasses when looking at the Mustang, and wonder why you're never in agreement with people on a Camaro forum. If the GT350 was really that good, worth the $, I am pretty sure you would have traded the Boss for one and wouldn't keep talking about what magazines think about it. Good enough to praise, but not good enough to buy....got it.
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01-29-2019, 08:02 AM | #714 |
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Let's not forget that all the praise they gave it came before the engine oil consumption issues, the fire hazard issues, the drivetrain issues, etc. They were given the car for 1 day when it was brand new, test drove it and tested it for that day, gave it back, and then wrote reviews. If I had a brand new GT350 for one whole day and got the thrash it then I'm sure I'd praise it too. After a month, year, I'm sure I'd realize what a failure Ford created. hence why soo many of them are switching over to ZL1s and Z06s yet not one of us switched over to one of those heaps, lol!!
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