[V8 Fan]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

... A few grand and you are in the 800's with a pulley down/E85 and tune. ...

A few grand?? A pulley and tune for a GT500 only costs a few hundred bucks. Camaro mods must be awfully expensive, if that's the barometer you're using to come to a few grand just for a pulley and tune.

Originally Posted by newmoon

I don't think so. Too many sacrifices to make it an all out track car. I personally want to see a street/strip warrior. The balance of the A10 ZL1 is the target.

That's exactly what the Carbon Track Pack is for, smacking around the ZL1 1LE.

[revs2ninegrand]

After reading through 42 pages of B.S, I've come to the conclusion that on all these cars it's really just a drivers race whether that be at the strip or road course.

I'm pretty sure consumers are just going to stick with brand loyalty for the most part or get what they find visually appealing.

Of course you'll have individuals who buy it and never use it for anything other than cars and coffee, but enjoy bragging about how fast it COULD go with a professional driver behind the wheel.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by V8 Fan

A few grand?? A pulley and tune for a GT500 only costs a few hundred bucks. Camaro mods must be awfully expensive, if that's the barometer you're using to come to a few grand just for a pulley and tune.





That's exactly what the Carbon Track Pack is for, smacking around the ZL1 1LE.

LOL, you mustang boys. I'm surprised you aren't driving around in your GT350.

While I think it is very likely the GT500 will best the ZL1 at the drag strip and the track, it will be just like the last generation was and it will take everything the Mustang has and it will likely be smacking itself around the track while it does it.

Ford has proven they know how to make the S550 turn extremely well in the GT350, and with all this time they have had, they will certainly produce a track beast with the 500. Sadly, they are a generation behind GM. 5th Gen GM was throwing a ton of tire at the outdated Zeta and 6th Gen they have introduced a lighter, world class chassis....pushing the Camaro in to true sports car territory while Ford is following GMs plan from last generation, throwing a ton of tire(and power) at the outdated S550 chassis. GM hasn't even had to make a single update to the 6th Gen Camaro, and Ford is still struggling. LOL....S550 2.0 still not quite equal to the alpha.

Hopefully Ford can close the gap, lose some weight, and start bringing the Mustang from muscle car to sports car NEXT generation. At well over 4,000 lbs.....that aint happening with the 6th Gen GT500.

[V8 Fan]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

...

Hopefully Ford can close the gap, lose some weight, and start bringing the Mustang from muscle car to sports car NEXT generation. ...

Pretty sure they already did that with the Boss 302 and the GT350. If you disagree, then you're one of a very small minority who doesn't think those cars are legitimate sports cars, especially the Boss 302 Laguna Seca and the GT350R.

[joe944]

Originally Posted by V8 Fan

That's exactly what the Carbon Track Pack is for, smacking around the ZL1 1LE.

This doesn't even affect the suspension does it? Just aero/wheels/tires?

I suppose they might be able to pull it off with just power/braking, but for how many laps?

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by joe944

This doesn't even affect the suspension does it? Just aero/wheels/tires?

I suppose they might be able to pull it off with just power/braking, but for how many laps?

With proper coolers probably a few. We know it has tranny and diff coolers. Will it have adequate cooling for lapping all day? I dont know. 4200+ pounds (if true) is a lot of mass to be throwing around.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by V8 Fan

Pretty sure they already did that with the Boss 302 and the GT350. If you disagree, then you're one of a very small minority who doesn't think those cars are legitimate sports cars, especially the Boss 302 Laguna Seca and the GT350R.

Didn't the Gen5 ss1le beat the Boss 302LS? and the Gen6 ss1le matches the gt350.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by revs2ninegrand

After reading through 42 pages of B.S, I've come to the conclusion that on all these cars it's really just a drivers race whether that be at the strip or road course.

I'm pretty sure consumers are just going to stick with brand loyalty for the most part or get what they find visually appealing.

Of course you'll have individuals who buy it and never use it for anything other than cars and coffee, but enjoy bragging about how fast it COULD go with a professional driver behind the wheel.

true dat, one reason the GT 500 shift itself is going to be "faster" for the people that own the car. My bro races Boxsters, every once in a while a group of hardcore Boxster racers show up with their manual Boxsters and beat out all the average Joe racers, who by and large run PDKs. As I get older I find that I just can't drive the manual as well, so even the new Mini that my oldest daughter uses for autoX and road race is now an auto, cause I am starting to suck at shifting, my kids still prefer the manual, but I think my youngest who starts driving in 2 weeks, will never compete with a manual.

I was actually surprised way back when that the 1LE did not have an auto as an option...

To me it comes out that a DCT just works better for all applications for the people that actually buy and use the car
"The purist in us whimpers a little, but the realist gets it.

Look, the days of a stick-shift being faster are over. Additionally, Ed Krenz, chief functional engineer for Ford Performance, explained that a dual clutch transmission is much better for on-track behavior because of the smoothness and speed with which it can grab the next gear. A DCT is less likely to upset the car mid-corner compared to a manual. When asked if a manual was ever considered, Ford folks didn’t have much to say, other than to point out that a manual might not make much sense in such a high-power application. (The stick-shift Challenger Hellcat would like a word.)"

My M6 Camaro is the last manual I'll buy, I knew this going in, this is my last manual, I knew it would suck in the 1/4 mile, suck in the street fight, but as a pure DD, it would be the most fun.

Nutshell, the DCT puts the GT 500 in for the win, and the car is good looking.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

Didn't the Gen5 ss1le beat the Boss 302LS? and the Gen6 ss1le matches the gt350.

He completely missed the point, intentionally I am sure. He prefers to look at the Mustang in a vacuum and not compared to their competition.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by V8 Fan

Pretty sure they already did that with the Boss 302 and the GT350. If you disagree, then you're one of a very small minority who doesn't think those cars are legitimate sports cars, especially the Boss 302 Laguna Seca and the GT350R.

Two more examples of paying for for performance than you have to with GM. It just takes more work to get the Mustang to track well, the consumer has to pay for that ultimately. Never said they aren't closing the gap, it was a comparison to how they are behind the game compared to GM. Ford closed the gap more this Gen, finishing with what will likely be the fastest all around car of the 3(GM, Ford, Dodge), but it took a LONG time, is already done with Gen 6 and has certainly fully moved on to Gen 7, more than Ford for sure as Ford isn't even done re-working the Gen 6 500 until closer to release. These aren't opinions, look at weight and performance per dollar as proof. Ford still far behind in the shaving weight category, FAR behind.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

It seems to me that Ford is setting things up for the normal GT500 to compete against the regular ZL1, and the GT500 with the carbon package to compete with the ZL1/1LE.

I doubt it could beat those cars convincingly, but they might be able to do it. With enough tire and power, the regular GT500 could best the ZL1, and add more agressive tires and enough down force, you never know, it may beat the ZL1/1LE...

But once they announce the power level, and we see how much this thing weighs, the big picture will come into focus.

If they're just dumping a bunch of power into the chassis then I doubt it'll get the job done. The Alpha platform was very well thought out, designed, balanced, and perfectly executed to be as good as it is at everything while not being specific to any one category. If Ford is trying to copy that then they should have it down after 6 years of development. My opinion is that the GT500 was not yet fully ready but they had to go ahead and put it out so they could get 2 years of sales...which also meant extending the platform by a year. They simply could not go this entire Gen without responding to the ZL1. GM put the ZL1 out when it was ready. Ford put the GT500 out when they did because they had to. It's like pulling a cake out of the oven too soon because your guests are already done with dinner and have been waiting and you're just hoping it had enough time to set and cool...the Ford camp has a lot riding on this and I think they're just hoping that it'll be good enough. But all of this remains to be seen. My opinion is that the GT500 falls short.

Originally Posted by V8 Fan

A few grand?? A pulley and tune for a GT500 only costs a few hundred bucks. Camaro mods must be awfully expensive, if that's the barometer you're using to come to a few grand just for a pulley and tune.

I'm betting a pulley and tune for a GT500 will be quite expensive. Considering that tuners will have to spend lots of time cracking the ECU and developing a safe tune, and factoring that not many GT500 owners will be willing to tune their expensively marked up Shelby and void the warranty, you can bet your ass that the first few tunes will be much more expensive than a typical Mustang GT or even a ZL1 tune.

Originally Posted by V8 Fan

That's exactly what the Carbon Track Pack is for, smacking around the ZL1 1LE.

What it's for and what it actually does will be world's apart. And even if it does, it still will cost much more...and took 6 years for Ford to build. So it better do nothing short of smacking the ZLE around because that is what it is expected to do. And even if it does, look at all it took to beat the most awesome Pony Car this world has seen.

Originally Posted by revs2ninegrand

After reading through 42 pages of B.S, I've come to the conclusion that on all these cars it's really just a drivers race whether that be at the strip or road course.

One of the most anticipated Mustang vs Camaro comparisons of all time is BS? Well I'm sure whatever you've been discussing for these 42 pages elsewhere was as interesting to us as our conversation is to you. But thanks for your opinion.

Originally Posted by ST1LE

LOL, you mustang boys. I'm surprised you aren't driving around in your GT350.

He doesn't have one for starters...

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

He doesn't have one for starters...

If he is who I think he is from the M6G site, then I believe he does. Just curious why he doesn't have better things to do than come over here and troll. LOL, so lame.

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by V8 Fan

A few grand?? A pulley and tune for a GT500 only costs a few hundred bucks. Camaro mods must be awfully expensive, if that's the barometer you're using to come to a few grand just for a pulley and tune.





That's exactly what the Carbon Track Pack is for, smacking around the ZL1 1LE.

Um, wrong. A pulley swap and tune time on the dyno will easily run $1000. Labor included. Add whatever E85 fueling system you'll need and you'll be into for a few grand. A "few". Meaning, $2500-$3k. You'll spend $500 just for Lund Gauge.



You don't just spend a few hundred bux and pop out 100 hp on tuning. smh. This ain't Fast N Furious movies. This is a $80k car and if you plan on spending a few hundred dollars tuning, then have at it.

[V8 Fan]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

Didn't the Gen5 ss1le beat the Boss 302LS? and the Gen6 ss1le matches the gt350.

In fairytale land, sure. There's not been a single independent head-to-head of the cars. The Camaro guys love to tell that tale. Some of them even go so far as to say the SS 1LE is as fast as the GT350R around a track.

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Two more examples of paying for for performance than you have to with GM. It just takes more work to get the Mustang to track well, the consumer has to pay for that ultimately. Never said they aren't closing the gap, it was a comparison to how they are behind the game compared to GM. Ford closed the gap more this Gen, finishing with what will likely be the fastest all around car of the 3(GM, Ford, Dodge), but it took a LONG time, is already done with Gen 6 and has certainly fully moved on to Gen 7, more than Ford for sure as Ford isn't even done re-working the Gen 6 500 until closer to release. These aren't opinions, look at weight and performance per dollar as proof. Ford still far behind in the shaving weight category, FAR behind.

Interesting how you seem to believe the Camaro is a featherweight. You know the SS 1LE and the GT350R with Electronics Package are within 40 lbs of each other, right? And the GT350R isn't light by any stretch. But do go on telling us how the Camaro somehow floats across the road like a leaf.


And yeah, you did say they aren't closing the gap. These were your exact words:

... Hopefully Ford can close the gap, lose some weight, and start bringing the Mustang from muscle car to sports car NEXT generation. ...

Meaning you don't think they're closing the [imaginary] gap and "maybe" they can with the next Mustang. Truth be told there are no shortages of YouTube videos showing it's a driver's race between the GT and the SS. I believe the Ecoboost stomps the lower Camaros. And the new GT500 is going to stomp the ZL1s. Your perception that the Camaro is the performance king is a fallacy. It's the same fight it's always been. Some days the Camaro will come out on top, other days the Mustang will come out on top.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

...
He doesn't have one for starters...

Apparently you wish I didn't. I hate to burst your bubble, but yes, I DO own one. 2017 Lightning Blue, chassis HR270.

Originally Posted by ST1LE

If he is who I think he is from the M6G site, then I believe he does. Just curious why he doesn't have better things to do than come over here and troll. LOL, so lame.

I don't know who you think I am, but I'm not on Mustang 6G. And I'm not here trolling. Just trying to keep you guys in perspective. Some of you are EXACTLY like the Mustang fanboys. Your blinders are on so tight that you can't, and refuse to, see reality. BlaqWhole is so bad that every one of his posts is doublespeak: "The new GT500 is a joke and won't hang with the ZL1. But if it does, it took them 6 years to do it. blah blah blah" Who cares how long it took them to do it as long as they did it? Don't be trying to write in a backdoor for yourself. Speak your words and stand behind them. We won't make you eat the whole crow, just a few bites.

Originally Posted by kttxz06

Um, wrong. A pulley swap and tune time on the dyno will easily run $1000. Labor included. Add whatever E85 fueling system you'll need and you'll be into for a few grand. A "few". Meaning, $2500-$3k. You'll spend $500 just for Lund Gauge.



You don't just spend a few hundred bux and pop out 100 hp on tuning. smh. This ain't Fast N Furious movies. This is a $80k car and if you plan on spending a few hundred dollars tuning, then have at it.

Wrong. I guess the Camaro guys are getting ripped off big time for mods. It's only a few hundred bucks for a pulley and tune for a GT500. Maybe the Camaro does, but Mustangs don't have to have a new fuel system to run E85. Very few GT500 owners change their fuel system just to run E85. And what labor cost could there possibly be with changing a pulley?? It's a 5 minute job whether you do it yourself or a shop does it. Have you ever worked on your own car??



A handheld tuner, canned tune and a pulley is under $1000 dollars (for a GT500), AKA a few hundred bucks. You guys may want to switch over to Mustangs so you can save money on mods. LOL