[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

Well, in the Demon's case it worked because 3000 suckers ran out and bought a low 10 second car thinking they could run a 9.65 in it...pure genius marketing.

Not quite...it's more like those "suckers" bought an extremely limited, one year only, highly desirable car that will probably see a substantial increase in value in the next 10-20 years. Some of them cared about the track times. Most of them didn't care at all. Even if it didn't run 9s the fact remains that it'll probably triple or even quadruple in value.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

0.9. The 500 will run the LL , just as every other Mustang has, but it won't be sponsored by Ford just as it wont be sponsored to run the Ring.

You missed the point.

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

If that's what you wanna think then enjoy.

I fully explained what I had to say and you glossed over it with gibberish. So there was no need to break down every incorrect or ill-conceived statement you wrote. It would have taken too long. Plus, you came here from M6G and jumped right on this post and the only reason you're here is to berate the Camaro. You aren't the first to do so and you won't be the last. So there's no point in debating you anyway. If someone went to M6G in such an obvious manner just looking to argue they would be booted. So I just choose not to engage in debating any of you anymore because there will be others just like you. Besides all it does is takes the thread off track. Third, you don't even know when the Z28 was first available in the 5th Gen...so why should I waste time debating something with someone who isn't fully informed?? That about sums it (and you) up.

It was a typo and should have said 2014. One typo doesn't take away from my points. And I haven't once berated the Camaro, actually, as I've stated many times I grew up a Chevy/Camaro guy until literally a few months ago. Why would I berate the car I grew up loving and still like (just not as much as my Mustang)? And no, I didn't come from M6G and only post in this thread. None of my posts are ban worthy. Seems like I think your posts are just as inaccurate as you think my posts are.

Anyway, obviously there's no convincing either of us, so game over, stalemate.

So, back to the topic at hand for this thread - I think the GT500 track package will beat a ZLE on the track, and at the drag strip. That's my opinion. Time will tell.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

It was a typo and should have said 2014. One typo doesn't take away from my points. And I haven't once berated the Camaro, actually, as I've stated many times I grew up a Chevy/Camaro guy until literally a few months ago. Why would I berate the car I grew up loving and still like (just not as much as my Mustang)? And no, I didn't come from M6G and only post in this thread. None of my posts are ban worthy. Seems like I think your posts are just as inaccurate as you think my posts are.

Anyway, obviously there's no convincing either of us, so game over, stalemate.

So, back to the topic at hand for this thread - I think the GT500 track package will beat a ZLE on the track, and at the drag strip. That's my opinion. Time will tell.

I don't care but ok.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by Idaho2018GTPremium

It was a typo and should have said 2014. One typo doesn't take away from my points. And I haven't once berated the Camaro, actually, as I've stated many times I grew up a Chevy/Camaro guy until literally a few months ago. Why would I berate the car I grew up loving and still like (just not as much as my Mustang)? And no, I didn't come from M6G and only post in this thread. None of my posts are ban worthy. Seems like I think your posts are just as inaccurate as you think my posts are.

Anyway, obviously there's no convincing either of us, so game over, stalemate.

So, back to the topic at hand for this thread - I think the GT500 track package will beat a ZLE on the track, and at the drag strip. That's my opinion. Time will tell.

If it doesn’t beat the ZLE, then is it considered a fail? it’s had a couple years to figure out how to do it.

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by 13vertss

If it doesn’t beat the ZLE, then is it considered a fail? it’s had a couple years to figure out how to do it.

To the 1/4 mile and 0-60 guys? Probably not. To track guys? Yes. Let's be honest. If the GT500 falls behind any Camaro or any Challenger on any test this forum will call it a fail. Hard to argue that with how long it has been in development.

[BlaqWhole]

In all fairness (can't believe I'm defending the GT500 yet again, lol), all it has to do is beat the ZL1 in a straight line and then beat the Hellcat and Redeye in cornering. It doesn't have to beat the ZLE in cornering nor does it have to beat the Redeye in a straight line. But just coming in somewhere in the middle should be enough. Asking it to do both isn't fair. I mean, even the Z06 can't do both. And I don't think even the ZR1 can do both either. In fact I don't think there is any car that can accomplish both of those feats that costs under $100K. If the GT500 does accomplish it then I will be more than impressed. If it comes in somewhere in the middle then that would be more than satisfactory. Sure they had forever and a day to build it. But we are still limited in what we can do with cars these days. Especially if the goal is to stay under $80K while still also offering comparable options.

So that is where I leave the GT500 at. Beat the ZL1 in the quarter mile, beat the Redeye around a track, have comparable options, keep the MSRP to around $80K max, get it to people without markups, and make sure it is a dependable product without the issues that the S550 has been plagued with. Do that and you've got a winner. That is not too much to ask.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

In all fairness (can't believe I'm defending the GT500 yet again, lol), all it has to do is beat the ZL1 in a straight line and then beat the Hellcat and Redeye in cornering. It doesn't have to beat the ZLE in cornering nor does it have to beat the Redeye in a straight line. But just coming in somewhere in the middle should be enough. Asking it to do both isn't fair. I mean, even the Z06 can't do both. And I don't think even the ZR1 can do both either. In fact I don't think there is any car that can accomplish both of those feats that costs under $100K. If the GT500 does accomplish it then I will be more than impressed. If it comes in somewhere in the middle then that would be more than satisfactory. Sure they had forever and a day to build it. But we are still limited in what we can do with cars these days. Especially if the goal is to stay under $80K while still also offering comparable options.

So that is where I leave the GT500 at. Beat the ZL1 in the quarter mile, beat the Redeye around a track, have comparable options, keep the MSRP to around $80K max, get it to people without markups, and make sure it is a dependable product without the issues that the S550 has been plagued with. Do that and you've got a winner. That is not too much to ask.

At the end of the day, you could drop a blanket over the performance spread of all of these vehicles. We're arguing over the margins of performance far beyond the levels that most of us will ever use. It's at the point where it really comes down to preferences on things not totally related to performance. So, if I were considering buying a GT500 and the specs came out and said it was a couple tenths slower than a Redeye in the quarter mile and half a second behind the ZL1 at VIR, would I deem the car a failure and void my deposit check? Hell no. Likewise, if I decided that I was gonna trade in my SS Vert for a ZLE and then saw a review where Randy Pobst said that the GT500 was the better car around Laguna Seca would I suddenly spin around and leave James - Martin Chevrolet and take my wallet over to Village Ford? Nope. I'm gonna buy the one that best speaks to me.


To paraphrase an earlier post in this thread, it's great times we live in when $64k cars that run in the neighborhood of 3.5s 0-60 and 11s quarter miles can be considered "failures". I'm glad to see the automakers battling it out to make each of these vehicles the best that they can be, but at the end of the day, even the "worst" of these vehicles are freakin' awesome cars. May each person who buys any of them enjoy every ride.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Martinjlm

At the end of the day, you could drop a blanket over the performance spread of all of these vehicles. We're arguing over the margins of performance far beyond the levels that most of us will ever use. It's at the point where it really comes down to preferences on things not totally related to performance. So, if I were considering buying a GT500 and the specs came out and said it was a couple tenths slower than a Redeye in the quarter mile and half a second behind the ZL1 at VIR, would I deem the car a failure and void my deposit check? Hell no. Likewise, if I decided that I was gonna trade in my SS Vert for a ZLE and then saw a review where Randy Pobst said that the GT500 was the better car around Laguna Seca would I suddenly spin around and leave James - Martin Chevrolet and take my wallet over to Village Ford? Nope. I'm gonna buy the one that best speaks to me.


To paraphrase an earlier post in this thread, it's great times we live in when $64k cars that run in the neighborhood of 3.5s 0-60 and 11s quarter miles can be considered "failures". I'm glad to see the automakers battling it out to make each of these vehicles the best that they can be, but at the end of the day, even the "worst" of these vehicles are freakin' awesome cars. May each person who buys any of them enjoy every ride.

I definitely agree with you. However we are competitive. And the very nature of this sport is based on competitiveness. That 10th of a second, while insignificant, can mean the whole world, lol!! But in all reality, it truly is insignificant. We all know that among even the same make and model of a car there will be variances in the tuning, engine output, etc. So technically you could test a Mustang and Camaro and get one result, and then test two completely different Mustangs and Camaros on completely different tracks at completely different times of the year and get completely different results. But when we all look at that magazine and see that the SS beats the GT by that 1 tenth, or by 0.8 MPH, or vice versa, it means a lot.

The GT500 is going to be great no doubt about it. The question that remains is HOW great will it be. The Ford guys have been waiting a long time for this. So they want it to beat everything at everything. But it doesn't have to. It literally just has to be on the same level and that will make it worth a reasonable MSRP. Even if it doesn't beat the Redeye or ZLE, it just has to show up and be on the same level.

[Martinjlm]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I definitely agree with you. However we are competitive. And the very nature of this sport is based on competitiveness. That 10th of a second, while insignificant, can mean the whole world, lol!! But in all reality, it truly is insignificant. We all know that among even the same make and model of a car there will be variances in the tuning, engine output, etc. So technically you could test a Mustang and Camaro and get one result, and then test two completely different Mustangs and Camaros on completely different tracks at completely different times of the year and get completely different results. But when we all look at that magazine and see that the SS beats the GT by that 1 tenth, or by 0.8 MPH, or vice versa, it means a lot.

The GT500 is going to be great no doubt about it. The question that remains is HOW great will it be. The Ford guys have been waiting a long time for this. So they want it to beat everything at everything. But it doesn't have to. It literally just has to be on the same level and that will make it worth a reasonable MSRP. Even if it doesn't beat the Redeye or ZLE, it just has to show up and be on the same level.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Chadicus

To the 1/4 mile and 0-60 guys? Probably not. To track guys? Yes. Let's be honest. If the GT500 falls behind any Camaro or any Challenger on any test this forum will call it a fail. Hard to argue that with how long it has been in development.

Ford had the Redeye, ZL1 and ZLE to benchmark. They delayed the GT500 for years to make sure they got it right. I expect it will dominate and will be surprised if it doesn’t. How could they possibly miss?

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Ford had the Redeye, ZL1 and ZLE to benchmark. They delayed the GT500 for years to make sure they got it right. I expect it will dominate and will be surprised if it doesn’t. How could they possibly miss?

I think all of us are expecting it to dominate. But I have doubts to be honest. I'm not sure it beats the Redeye or the ZLE. And it's likely to be the most expensive of the 3 even without ADM.

[Subcool]

Pics from the naias

[Subcool]

Looks cool but would still rather have my Z