01-16-2019, 02:44 PM | #113 | |
Drives: 21 Bronco Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Carol Stream
Posts: 6,024
|
Quote:
|
|
01-16-2019, 02:51 PM | #114 | |
Drives: 66 Chevelle SS Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,347
|
Quote:
They would have to do something drastic to get me back on board. I was a die hard GM guy all my life until they stiffed me on a crappy piece of Chinese plastic for a dash panel. Chevy gets laughed at frequently at a dragstrip. I hear and see it frequently. Once in a great while someone surprises with their newer Caddy or Camaro.
__________________
66 Chevelle SS 396
91 octane Driver n/a 6.44@105.78 1/8th mile |
|
01-16-2019, 02:54 PM | #115 | |||
Drives: 1999 Camaro SS M6 - SBE LS1 Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,167
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
While GM may not do it, deep down, Camaro fans don't want to continually be held back from the HP wars which we are way behind Mopar in, and about to lag behind Ford in. And while I don't want a one-trick pony (which is why I am fond of the ZL1 and ZLEs), I would like a Camaro with enough HP to be competitive with the 700+HP GT500 and Redeye in a straight line while still delivering the great handling the Alpha platform is known for.
__________________
1999 Camaro SS 6M - SBE LS1
1963 Corvette GrandSport - ZZ502 4M 2017 Denali 1500 6.2 2017 Yukon Denali 6.2 |
|||
01-16-2019, 03:02 PM | #116 |
Drives: 19 Z06 Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Oakville Ont.
Posts: 1,427
|
Good point. See my post just before yours.
Sometimes maybe they can just throw us a bone so we can get what we want. Automotive manufactures spend so much trying to determine what customers want. Here we are saying what we want. Doesn’t have to be anymore deep than that. It would be extra $$ for Chevy and no one expects GM to lose money. Last Gen Z/28 was a package. Many people would have loved that LS7, but not the fancy brakes and stripped down package the Z/28 was. I think a ZL1 with 2 engine options would go over well. If a customer wants the LT5 engine then pay up. Just don’t make it a package with a bunch of other things. The ZL1 already stops and handles great. It is great, but why not make it greater. Also we as GM customers have bought many other GM vehicles because we like GM and like the history. Owning high performance GM vehicles leads us to eastablish relationships so when we need another family vehicle we head to the Chevy dealer. It’s not all just about the car. There is a big marketing picture and relationship that forms.
__________________
Gone but not forgotten:
1974 Corvette Stingray 454 1986 Z28 2009 Mustang GT convertible 2012 45th 2SS Vert 2013 ZL1 M6 2014 Zl1 M6 2014 GT500 2016 Challenger Hellcat M6 www.youtube.com/c/garageking |
01-16-2019, 03:06 PM | #117 |
Drives: 19 Z06 Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Oakville Ont.
Posts: 1,427
|
This was in response to Shaffe’s Post so see my #112
__________________
Gone but not forgotten:
1974 Corvette Stingray 454 1986 Z28 2009 Mustang GT convertible 2012 45th 2SS Vert 2013 ZL1 M6 2014 Zl1 M6 2014 GT500 2016 Challenger Hellcat M6 www.youtube.com/c/garageking |
01-16-2019, 03:15 PM | #118 |
Drives: 21 Bronco Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Carol Stream
Posts: 6,024
|
I agree I think it would be awesome. I would love to see them do it.
I am sure I come off as a debbie downer. I just go by past history as my guidline and they have never stuffed the ZR-1 Engine in anything other than a corvette which is why I wouldn't get my hopes up. |
01-16-2019, 03:22 PM | #119 |
Drives: 19 Z06 Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Oakville Ont.
Posts: 1,427
|
You are right about the ZR- 1 engine not going into anything else. Detune it a bit if they had to. GM is always innovating and changing so just hoping, that’s all.
__________________
Gone but not forgotten:
1974 Corvette Stingray 454 1986 Z28 2009 Mustang GT convertible 2012 45th 2SS Vert 2013 ZL1 M6 2014 Zl1 M6 2014 GT500 2016 Challenger Hellcat M6 www.youtube.com/c/garageking |
01-16-2019, 03:42 PM | #120 |
Drives: 2017 A10 ZL1 KG Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Porter TX
Posts: 315
|
Personally, I would evolve the ZL1 to the LT5, this would be the high horse Camaro and the ZL1 LE to the Z28 LT4 Track Camaro. done.
|
01-16-2019, 03:50 PM | #121 |
Drives: 2018 ZLE Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Des Moines
Posts: 227
|
The Z/28 cannot be LT4.
__________________
2018 ZL1 1LE (CARBON/PDR/NAV)
|
01-16-2019, 04:00 PM | #122 |
Drives: Fast Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Michigan
Posts: 3,696
|
Some decent arguments however there are still a lot of flaws from GM's perspective...
The Camaro isn't "slow" enough for them to feel like it won't sell in comparison to the higher HP Dodge/Ford offerings. Point gone. The $10k option wouldn't be enough. GM has lots of reliability and stress testing scenarios they have to meet. The clutch on M6 cars would be the first one that would have to be done for sure. Next up would be the fueling and likely cooling upgrades/changes. Plus you have clearancing needed for the dry sump setup. The ECM would have to be changed, I'm no expert, I assume that would be straightforward but keep in mind everything on these new cars from speedo, headlights, to torque limitations are controlled from the ECM. Plus, there's some other problems I went over in my previous post that would need to be addressed. Saying "good enough" is not in their rule book. So while if it was me or you with a project car, we may be able to slam an LT5 in it and massage a few things and call it a day. Whereas they may see a cobbled mess that needs revising for reliability standards. Here's another aspect, the LT5 gets worse gas mileage. Ever seen the gas mileage requirements that GM/all OEMs must hold across the board? Who knows if the 2-3 worse MPG (In the Z06 vs ZR1) translates to them having to shift products elsewhere. Do you see how these issues compound seemingly endlessly? Point gone. If it did happen, it simply would have to be more than $10,000. Though us fans don't like seeing the Chevy's "behind" or laughed at at the drag strip (Which I fully believe and have seen) - GM doesn't really care that much. As long as it's selling and is competitive in 2/3 areas, which is an understatement about the ZL1, it's fine. Keep in mind, in their book here's what happened: When the ZL1 came out it shattered muscle car track expectations, both ZL1 and ZL1 1LE putting out track times that put it in world class territories at bargain (Relative) prices. It ran low 11s in the quarter. Besting all manufacturers claims of competitors. It performed excellently on the road. Better real world traction than both competitors (GT500 and Hellcat, in 2016/17). Better brakes, tires, the list goes on. Now, we're all sitting here, wagging our fingers at GM demanding they put the engine from the Best they've ever Build (The C7 ZR1) into it and not even thinking about back end costs or problems. Catch the drift? I do not mean to be "the debbie downer". I'm attempting to bring forth some, not even all, of the left out factors. I don't know about you, but I'd rather GM spend their time and money building a lighter, stronger, faster, more efficient, dual clutch trans, aero dynamic, high HP Gen 7 Camaro than spend money on a platform that's been out for quite some time and is only (at worst) 3rd in the pack of 20+ cars in its class (American muscle car, 2 door coupe). |
01-16-2019, 04:14 PM | #123 |
Drives: 2017 A10 ZL1 KG Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Porter TX
Posts: 315
|
|
01-16-2019, 04:34 PM | #124 | |
Drives: 1999 Camaro SS M6 - SBE LS1 Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 1,167
|
Quote:
So the costs are minimal for what could be a fantastic all-out Camaro.
__________________
1999 Camaro SS 6M - SBE LS1
1963 Corvette GrandSport - ZZ502 4M 2017 Denali 1500 6.2 2017 Yukon Denali 6.2 |
|
01-16-2019, 04:43 PM | #125 |
Drives: 20 X3M CP & 19 ZL1 1LE A10 Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Brenham, TX
Posts: 3,517
|
So true. And Corvette must be round taillights and knight rider pop up headlights.
__________________
🔺22 RS E TRON GT
🔺21 Model S Plaid |
01-16-2019, 04:59 PM | #126 |
Drives: 19 Z06 Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Oakville Ont.
Posts: 1,427
|
Ok, I get all your points. Got it.
Here is my proposal. Make it a 15-20k option but do not add anything else that HAS to come with the engine. No packages. That was what killed the last Z/28. It was that you had to get the Z/28 package. You couldn’t get just the LS7. So one could order a ZL1 and just tick off the box for the motor and a few other things they want. GM makes money and the car still sells as those that do not want to pay. “Those that say I’ll jusy pulley my LT4” can feel free to do so as a “relative bargain” will still be available. GM can make everyone happy. There was a 40K difference in the vette but a lot of carbon fiber and other things were included with that. Pricing at maybe close to 20 will surly limit the amount of orders of LT5 Camaros but it will not be a fail because it’s not another trim level. It’s still a ZL1.
__________________
Gone but not forgotten:
1974 Corvette Stingray 454 1986 Z28 2009 Mustang GT convertible 2012 45th 2SS Vert 2013 ZL1 M6 2014 Zl1 M6 2014 GT500 2016 Challenger Hellcat M6 www.youtube.com/c/garageking |
|
|
Post Reply
|
|
|