[harner]

Originally Posted by sengli

I am always amazed how little the cars I have traded are really worth.

I am always amazed at how little dealers know about the intricacies of the performance cars they sell. It's pretty bad when I, an asshole, have to school sales "managers" on the cars that I was looking over and inspecting - including the one I purchased. The old saying still goes - don't bullshit a bullshitter.

[max pl]

Originally Posted by Smokin15

When you are trading cars, it is always about the difference. Most times when trading you are going against list (not always). If they reduce their price, you obviously get less for yours. If they give more for your car, then less off on their car.

I would suggest the latter, getting more for your trade against their list price. This would give you some break on the tax for the difference. If you really want the car, don't give up yet.

huh? you pay tax on the difference. if they give you 20k on trade and ask 60k for car, youre paying tax on 40k. if they give you 25k on trade and ask 65k for car, youre paying tax on 40k.

the tax break logic only applies for selling private party versus trading in.

[saturno_v]

Originally Posted by harner

I am always amazed at how little dealers know about the intricacies of the performance cars they sell. It's pretty bad when I, an asshole, have to school sales "managers" on the cars that I was looking over and inspecting - including the one I purchased. The old saying still goes - don't bullshit a bullshitter.

Please do not get me started on that....almost makes me not wanting to buy a car from some guys that literally do not know jack about the cars they are selling and cars in general....


I have to give credit to the Germans here...their sales force is, on average, much more knowledgeable than the folks selling American or even Japanese cars.


A salesman at an Audi dealership knew much more about the CTS-V than the sales manager at Cadillac!!!

[greaser2]

KBB numbers are a joke. I always start with givemethevin.com and get the wholesale price. You should be able to get close to the wholesale value, if the dealer wants to put on their lot, you can get a bit more.

[max pl]

Originally Posted by saturno_v

Please do not get me started on that....almost makes me not wanting to buy a car from some guys that literally do not know jack about the cars they are selling and cars in general....


I have to give credit to the Germans here...their sales force is, on average, much more knowledgeable than the folks selling American or even Japanese cars.


A salesman at an Audi dealership knew much more about the CTS-V than the sales manager at Cadillac!!!

the entire profession is a joke. cant wait til its over for them as i see a big transition happening in the next decade or two.

it's like private health insurance we all pay. not only are we paying the cost of the product or service to the doctors or car manufacturers, but a premium to some dipshit middleman. there is literally no purpose to these jobs.

[BMWM.D.]

Maybe I’ve been lucky. I don’t usually trade in cars for the reasons mentioned in this thread. But I ended up trading my 13 Grand Sport (almost 5 years old at the time) when I bought my ZL1 last year, and walked away with about 84% of what I’d originally paid for it new. It only would have been ~65% if I’d paid MSRP for the GS, but I don’t even think that’s all that bad considering. I don’t think I would have been able to get much more selling private party.

That said, my dealer didn’t care whether I sold my car to them or not. The deal we had on the ZL1 was separate, at about $5k off sticker. And for a 2018 model in September 2017, I thought that was very good. Maybe I just have a great local dealer? I dunno, but there were no games being played like many of you have experienced.

[max pl]

Originally Posted by BMWM.D.

Maybe I’ve been lucky. I don’t usually trade in cars for the reasons mentioned in this thread. But I ended up trading my 13 Grand Sport (almost 5 years old at the time) when I bought my ZL1 last year, and walked away with about 84% of what I’d originally paid for it new. It only would have been ~65% if I’d paid MSRP for the GS, but I don’t even think that’s all that bad considering. I don’t think I would have been able to get much more selling private party.

That said, my dealer didn’t care whether I sold my car to them or not. The deal we had on the ZL1 was separate, at about $5k off sticker. And for a 2018 model in September 2017, I thought that was very good. Maybe I just have a great local dealer? I dunno, but there were no games being played like many of you have experienced.

So you got like 12 to 15k off on the GS but only 5k off on the ZL1?

[Smokin19]

You can beat on the dealer's all day long (some deserve it) but, if they all go out of business you wouldn't own the best Camaro ever made.
Be thankful you live in a country where you can buy one.

[Mcmillion]

Seems like your only issue is the trade why don't you go to carmax or Infiniti and see what they will buy it for. I have owned lots of Infiniti's they do not hold value well due to the insane leases they do on them. Raptor gave you some real advice on a real value. Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it not whats listed on some website.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by Mcmillion

Seems like your only issue is the trade why don't you go to carmax or Infiniti and see what they will buy it for. I have owned lots of Infiniti's they do not hold value well due to the insane leases they do on them. Raptor gave you some real advice on a real value. Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay for it not whats listed on some website.

Good point. Get a quote from Carmax and then go back to the dealer with that in hand if you want to still trade it.

[JonDaddy82]

I’m in the business. Since their most likely into the holdback money on the new unit, they’re trying to stay too far out of the red by holding on the trade. So if they showed you 18K, their ACV in the system might be 19.5K. The “pot” is only so big. Since you opened up wanting to see a big top line selling price discount, they had no where to go on the trade. Had you opened up making everything about the trade, they would’ve stuck closer to sticker on the new unit and showed you 24K+ on the trade. Had you only mentioned trade difference, then that might be more of a 50/50 spilt. You as the customer tell us the managers how to sell you, and what’s important to you. Some people it’s OTD, some payment, some trade figure.

To recap what others have said:

- Options on the used end don’t matter like they did when you bought it.
- Infiniti’s don’t resale for shit compared to Lexus.
- They don’t care how much you love your car and think it’s special.
- It’s just another VIN to them, there was 100 before it and they’ll be 100 after it.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by JonDaddy82

I’m in the business. Since their most likely into the holdback money on the new unit, they’re trying to stay too far out of the red by holding on the trade. So if they showed you 18K, their ACV in the system might be 19.5K. The “pot” is only so big. Since you opened up wanting to see a big top line selling price discount, they had no where to go on the trade. Had you opened up making everything about the trade, they would’ve stuck closer to sticker on the new unit and showed you 24K+ on the trade. Had you only mentioned trade difference, then that might be more of a 50/50 spilt. You as the customer tell us the managers how to sell you, and what’s important to you. Some people it’s OTD, some payment, some trade figure.

To recap what others have said:

- Options on the used end don’t matter like they did when you bought it.
- Infiniti’s don’t resale for shit compared to Lexus.
- They don’t care how much you love your car and think it’s special.
- It’s just another VIN to them, there was 100 before it and they’ll be 100 after it.

Well stated.

I have gone through this process many times so I understand what it feels like when you get shocked and they tell you what they will pay for your car. That is why you will hear a lot of folks negotiate the price of the car and not mention a trade-in until the end.

If I am going to mention the trade-in up front then I will typically get a trade-in figure from Carmax before going to the dealer so I am are already armed with a real offer to buy my car. If you just tell them I think my car is worth $22k then they can turn around and say "ok, do you have a buyer for your car at 22k?" Then you can say, well yes I do and show them the Carmax offer. That is very different than just stating you feel your car is worth $22k since it is only worth what someone will pay for it.

The dealer does not want you to walk out the door at that point since they know it is highly unlikely you will ever come back after they insulted you with the price. They will typically match or come real close to the Carmax offer, which typically works in your favor since if you trade it in you will save some money on sales tax.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by BMWM.D.

Maybe I’ve been lucky. I don’t usually trade in cars for the reasons mentioned in this thread. But I ended up trading my 13 Grand Sport (almost 5 years old at the time) when I bought my ZL1 last year, and walked away with about 84% of what I’d originally paid for it new. It only would have been ~65% if I’d paid MSRP for the GS, but I don’t even think that’s all that bad considering. I don’t think I would have been able to get much more selling private party.

That said, my dealer didn’t care whether I sold my car to them or not. The deal we had on the ZL1 was separate, at about $5k off sticker. And for a 2018 model in September 2017, I thought that was very good. Maybe I just have a great local dealer? I dunno, but there were no games being played like many of you have experienced.

Corvettes tend to hold their value better. There is always a buyer for a Corvette, especially a good condition Grand Sport.

[raptor5244]

Originally Posted by saturno_v

I definitely do not get emotional and I'm ready to walk away.


In my previous purchases, I never lost so much money on my trade (I always got the average KBB figure) so I do not see a reason to start now....


19K maybe is the selling price of a bare bone 2014 Q50 for 50K miles or more, definitely not a low mileage Q50 Sport AWD loaded with every imaginable gizmo....even if my car is a 2014 it was so advanced in electronics back then that there are many luxury cars currently on the market that still do not offer all the options I have...my car was the first with the "Super cruise" capability meaning it can literally steer by itself as long as the curve is not too sharp.....you can drive for miles in some stretches of freeways without touching the steering wheel.


In my neck of the woods, a similar vintage and similarly optioned Q50 has a asking price of 26-28K.


I think dealers are still simply too fat and happy on the good times (car sales have been on a tear for years) but things are changing fast, sales are slowing down significantly, interest rates keep going up and the stock market is in a bit of a tailspin......both Cadillac and Chevrolet dealers got my number and know my figures...let's see if in December or January, in the middle of the winter with hard to sell powerful RWD models such as the ZL1 or the CTS-V, they are ready to change their tune....ain't changing mine...


Do not gorge too much on the turkey folks!!

I get what you are saying but for that same money ($56k) now you can buy a Tesla Model 3 that will shove you in the seat just as much if not more than the ZL1 (I am not joking, even the base Model 3 will make you lose your stomach if you mash the throttle at low speed), it goes 310 miles per charge on battery and cost $27 on average per month charge it. As for the tech, you can summon the damn car to you. Things are changing so fast for cars. We are witnessing a huge shift in the auto market.

If you can sell your existing car for 26-28k then I would definitely do that since it will be hard to get a dealer to pay more than $20k for it on trade unless they are making up the profit on the sale of the new car.

Best of luck.