[max pl]

looks, design, comfort, quality, materials, long term value, reliability, corporate/dealership experience.

aside from GT porsches, bmws and porsches arent 2 to 3 times the cost.

[Joel2702zzz]

Originally Posted by TrackClub

What is it then (that justifies paying 2 or 3 times the price)?

Yeah I really want to know too.

[DaveC113]

Originally Posted by Joel2702zzz

Yeah I really want to know too.

Once you get past functionality and into a luxury market the most important thing is having potential customers buy into your story. It's not all hype, a lot of it is the past reputation of the company and the fact they have a proven track record. However, just as much of it is perception, prestige, how the item makes you feel.

Different people put different value on value for the dollar. If cars are pocket change then it's not an issue, if something is perceived as better it doesn't matter how much more it costs. Others are driven mostly by value, and there's the whole spectrum in between.

Cars are mostly sold on emotion, it's very, very different from selling say, a gas furnace.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by max pl

looks, design, comfort, quality, materials, long term value, reliability, corporate/dealership experience.

aside from GT porsches, bmws and porsches arent 2 to 3 times the cost.

I must admit Pcars hold their value way above average and especially those which are produced in limited numbers (mostly GTs). Yes indeed they cost 3 times (at least). A pre-owned (low miles) Cayman GTS is twice as much. While reliability is very good by and large the service costs are very high and mandated to maintain track warranty, including parts replacements according to certain mileage. Some folks i know keep their GT cars for 2 years only to avoid those costs, keep miles very low then pony up extra cash and get new models instead.

Bimmers are different. As much as i know (and see) tons of folks tracking older Bimmers (many made into track cars) i almost never see any of the new M4s (which are almost twice the price).
Bimmers are also one of the most leased brand due to reliability...And hence their re sale value is at best average if not below.

I understand your comments but many of them are intangibles. Id also suggest that folks spend THAT kind of money mainly due to prestige factors et al. Whether they are loaded or not. Funny enough, some really loaded folks dont see cars as prestige at all. Or at least they dont feel a need to make a statement. Or maybe cars are just way unimportant to them. But a private jet is.

Personally i have nothing but praise for GM dealerships where i have taken my vehicles. They all treated my 1le as if it was an exotic and at one dealer the service consultant personally supervised the techs. No BS! But obviously that will vary depending on management, their values etc.

Bottom line, this thread started as a head to head comparo re performance, as both cars have been engineered with track enthusiasts in mind. Yes one can get a Howe race car, a hauler and a trailer and terrorize all HPDE events, but most folks are less hard core. And some folks (like me) go back to street cars that do both duties well. And for this purpose, there isnt a bigger bargain than an SS 1LE. And there isn't a better value proposition than a ZL1 (albeit it costs more).

[Boost Creep]

There are some not so old BMW's that go for dirt cheap, like $4G or so.
328i or something like that, can't give them away.

[TrackClub]

Originally Posted by Boost Creep

There are some not so old BMW's that go for dirt cheap, like $4G or so.
328i or something like that, can't give them away.

And even at a top drawer dealer 3yr old cars can be had for about 50-55% msrp with low miles and super clean to boot.

[Aragorn]

Some e46 m3 can now be found for less than $20k.

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by max pl

looks, design, comfort, quality, materials, long term value, reliability, corporate/dealership experience.

aside from GT porsches, bmws and porsches arent 2 to 3 times the cost.

Naw, Porsches are 2 times the cost.

Take the base price and multiply it by 1.5, that's the real cost of any Porsche with any kind of reasonable options. They set it up so the "base model" is very undesirable and there are so many little goodies that you want to tack on, like better suspension, better seats, etc...

[ST1LE]

It is amazing for GM that I can say even this, but the ONLY place a Camaro and some Porsche's can be compared is performance. The cars cannot be compared in any other way, they are of different classes entirely and for good reason.

If you cannot 'justify' buying a P-Car over a Camaro, it is because you don't make enough money. I don't mean that in a rude way, as I do not make Porsche money myself.

[WhyUMad1LE]

The suede material in the GT3 RS felt the same to me, and the layout of the interior was pretty simple. The gauges and carbon backed buckets are very nice though.

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

The working Man's Camaro blows away the Boutique Motor Works. Less money, more dependable and cheaper to fix.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by WhyUMad1LE

The suede material in the GT3 RS felt the same to me, and the layout of the interior was pretty simple. The gauges and carbon backed buckets are very nice though.

I think where you will see the biggest difference is in the driving experience.

I love my SS 1LE, and it is far better than my M3 was, but when you get into a Porsche, it's the intangibles that are hard to describe that make the difference.


The motor, the engine sounds (talking GT cars here), the attention to detail, the R&D that goes into each infinite detail, the precision of the individual parts that all come together as a cohesive package.

These are the things you are paying for in a Porsche.

Give me the option of a Porsche GT4 or GT3 and the SS 1LE and I will take the Porsche. Give me the option of the ZL1 1LE or the GT3 RS, I will take the Porsche. I just don't make Porsche money.

[JamesNoBrakes]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

I love my SS 1LE, and it is far better than my M3 was, but when you get into a Porsche, it's the intangibles that are hard to describe that make the difference.

I do not disagree, just that tend to put more weight on this than it warrants and eventually we start believing (rationalizing) things that aren't even true. Good engineered car is a good engineered car and many things go into it. Sometimes they fall flat on their face, such as with BMW electric steering, sometimes you take a performance hit for something that makes the noise you want or has the feel you want. It can be really difficult to step back and think about whether or not the car is worth it or really does those things better than something else. The higher end the car, the less this is true, but there are always a few outliers there.

[TrackClub]

The thing is - to get 1le performance one has to shell out quite a bit more money to be just on par. Ive just read an arricle on Drive blog about Civic R. It stated something very interesting, yet so obvious: it is much easier to manufacture a great car for $250G vs $35G.
1le very much falls into this category.

Otoh if we start looking at intangibles, Porsche starts to pale in comparison to say a Ferrari or a Lambo. Etc.
Take a Ford GT for example, which got beat by a ZR1 on track, yet intangibles wise it attracts huge money.

To me, as far as sports cars go, an overall package surely matters, but the deciding criteria is on track vs cars and coffee gatherings.