[at7000ft]

Totally agree on the liftback design.

rh

[Snrub]

Liftback/sportback type designs make a lot of sense for this type of vehicle. It allows for more efficient use of space, gives better storage space flexibility and promotes an aerodynamically efficient design.

[F1FTY]

Originally Posted by JaxChris

Al O. refuses to put T-Tops back on the menu because of rigidity, so we're not getting a true B-pillar liftback either.

I like the idea of sticking nothing but SBC's into the engine compartment, especially now that CAFE has been loosened.

Alpha2 would likely reduce footprint even more, and we're already complaining about being cramped and lacking interior storage compartments. If anything, they should stop trying to be 1 inch smaller than the Mustang. If would not have killed the car or its' overall performance level to make the doors 0.5" deeper, elongate the door pockets, move the dash up an inch, place the vents above the center screen, move the AC 'buttons' to the touchscreen, create a pocket where the current center vents exist, and deepen the armrest storage by 1.5".

I would also say the knee bolster pads need a redesign so that they are where they need to be for any size driver. At 6'3", I constantly find that the stitch line is firmly in the side of my kneecap and it feels like crap after an hour. A bowing pad with more length would work with more heights and seat positions.

For the trunk, I would gladly give up 2 inches of depth to get the rear seat a little more room. On the subject of trunk. A wider trunk lid opening that eliminates the rear panel section would provide sufficient width for most loading operations (except golf clubs, because seriously, those guys would buy 'Vettes and they don't hold clubs). The wider top opening allows for less longitudinal space, so the C-pillars can come back further, giving a fastback appeal, more rear headroom, and the ability to lower the rear deck about 1.5" so the window is as big as the rear view mirror. I think that is the biggest thing that mentally messes with people, more so than the short height of the door glass.

For the rear bumper, take the bubble bump off the bottom. From an aero perspective, rolling up from the diffuser to the wing should be a smooth motion. There is nothing behind that cover that can't be tucked or shrunk.

Side mirrors, get them off of the crease. The first time they get bumped by a careless persons actions they never seal again and more air gets into the door, vibrating through the A-pillar and ruining the voice microphone clarity when you're on the highway.

Transmissions -- the 8L90 is a disaster. Now even the Colorado V6 with 8L45 is hitting service departments with similar problems. The 10L90 in the ZL1 is a hardened 10R80, and should have been the 2019 replacement for all vehicles instead of the 10L80 (which is nearly identical to the 10R80). Ford is having trouble with the 10R80 in regular F-150's and Mustangs already. Go back to ZF for help or stick with the 10L90's more proven resilience. Or admit that AFM is a shudder prone event and stop trying to program the TCM to ruin the transmission in an attempt to cover up the NVH.

Headlights -- I know why GM made them thinner, but I still don't understand the ugly almost "unibrow" look. Are GM designers that checked out that anything left in the trash bin that hasn't been used by someone is what they are willing to use in order to get a unique look? It doesn't help that you constantly blur the visual cues between the Camaro and Malibu at night. People don't make that mistake with the Mustang. And Dodge only makes 2 cars anymore (good riddance to the Dart), and since they both offer the same schtick, they can look the same from the front or rear if Dodge wants because confusing them isn't a downgrade to either of them.

NPP Exhaust -- move the valves in front of the muffler and use them as a diverter to a bypass chamber in the muffler. Bring both chambers back together just before the outlet to however many tips you want on each side. The two opposing chambers will act as J-pipes for each other, giving a smoother note whether it is in mild or wild mode. Relocating the valve would allow for a stiffer mechanism to be used without getting the ting sound when little ceramic pins fail.

HUD & cluster -- 2SS, ZL1 & 1LE should have it all. Larger HUD projection image, more pages, ability to choose elements on a page from the center touchscreen. The gauge cluster should go full digital display. Rip off Ford or Audi, don't care, just make it functional and customizable. And stop sticking indicators in corners of the cluster where they can't be seen through the steering wheel.

Bring back Homelink. You can't seriously be that lazy that you rob the harness power wire to Homelink instead of increasing voltage to the Onstar control power wire that's already going to the mirror? Oh noes, a harness wire had to get bumped up a gauge, it's still the same harness design. Sheesh.

Sharkfin -- get rid of it. I have yet to see a factory delivered Camaro where the fin is perfectly straight. If you can't make a good jig for mounting it, stop doing it. Relocate under the rear deck cover and take the signal loss or come up with a better antenna cover idea. I'm happy losing Onstar and SiriusXM, to be honest. GPS antenna is under the dashboard, if I recall, so navigation is still good to go. And then that wire is available for Homelink again -- win/win.

Front bumpers -- the SEMA concept is just a bandaid on what is still the stupidest refresh decision GM has made to a performance vehicle. Nothing else to say about the 2019's front bumper. As for design help... cheekbones, stop using them. Air curtains, make them very subtle instead of drawing attention to them.

Taillights -- not sure why you felt the need to update the lights. Yet again you did nothing to the dimensions of the opening to which they are mounted. So what uncoordinated moron thought stuffing round pegs into an existing square/rectangle hole was the right move? And why make them protrude? Again, smooth rear surface. This is why so much sh!t collects on the lips and edges of the rear end.

Black package -- I love this change. They should have allowed a black splitter, black wing and black mirrors option for 16-18. I would have definitely paid you to use lower cost GBA on those parts. And the black bowtie should be all black or gloss black/matte black two-tone. There should be no faux-chrome on that plastic. Make the passive entry buttons black too while you're at it.

GMPP -- need better support here. Aftermarket is contracting and factory performance upgrades at GM that are warrantable are slim. Why not offer up the 535 package with a tune and a GMPP warranty, similar to the FR warranty substitute? Offer e85 upgrade as well for a 575 package. Let dealers get competitive with the pricing and install by making the GMPP substitute warranty a separate, optional charge. An eLSD package for the SS automatics would be nice too -- OR JUST OFFER THE 1LE WITH AN AUTOMATIC ALREADY.

But seriously, GM, get your head out of your ass with whatever led to this problem with the 8L transmissions. You make the refresh look like it contracted gangrene and its' face melted off when we're already having trouble trusting you to give us a reliable powertrain. That is why your sales are sinking faster than the competition in key, high-margin vehicle segments. Investors are going to sue for poor guidance because you fail to realize the damage to trust in the GM brand that these transmission problems are causing. I wanted a Silverado, nevermind. Ok, maybe I'll get the Tahoe, nope same problems. Alright, not getting another full size because I can't trust you. Hey the misses wanted to get rid of the Equinox for a sports coupe, she refused to consider the Camaro because of the number of times mine has been in repair. We now have a Mustang next to my Camaro. And the Mustang is far more comfortable to sit in for a weekend cruise. WTF?!?!? And it has usable storage compartments.

/rant

I mean...you ain't wrong.

Epic rant.

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by Quinten_33

Every 7th gen Camaro will have a DOHC engine, and the base engine will be a four-cylinder.

Aside from that, I would love to see the liftback design return. I think that, with the Corvette goes mid-engine and thus losing its own liftback trunk, the 7th gen has no excuse not to be a liftback. It’s more spacious, has a wider opening, and can improve both visibility and packaging if done right.

DOHC eng. are top heavy, too big and don't have low end torque. The Ford 5.0 is physically bigger than the Chevy 6.2.

[MackSteelPrivateEye]

Originally Posted by YARBIE 1

Why not discuss these changes you want somehwere else? I thought this forum was about 6th gens and people that love them. I think my 17 2SS kicks ass. Looks kick ass drives kick ass and is the best camaro yet. Just my two cents.

I have a 17' SS. Mine looks great!...right?

[Agrsiv]

I personally wouldn't even consider buying a liftback! I love my "18" and aside from gen 1, I think it's the best looking Camaro yet.

[Doin It For Dale]

Originally Posted by MackSteelPrivateEye

DOHC eng. are top heavy, too big and don't have low end torque. The Ford 5.0 is physically bigger than the Chevy 6.2.

DOHC engines rev higher and are much better for boost. The current generation of SBC engines will be the last generation of pushrod engines for GM. The 6th generation of engines will be DOHC, and, as far as I know, turbochargers will replace superchargers on high-performance engines like the LT4 and LT5. Quinten and I have a pretty good idea of what's to come, but we could be wrong...

[Quinten_33]

Originally Posted by Doin It For Dale

DOHC engines rev higher and are much better for boost. The current generation of SBC engines will be the last generation of pushrod engines for GM. The 6th generation of engines will be DOHC, and, as far as I know, turbochargers will replace superchargers on high-performance engines like the LT4 and LT5. Quinten and I have a pretty good idea of what's to come, but we could be wrong...

[Silverwing]

Yea, that's gonna be a no from me on the liftback. Can't stand that design.
Want a hatchback, buy a hatchback, leave the Camaro alone.

I'm hoping for more options, more colors, more customization. Seems like they are trimming the more bright colors, not counting that weird shock green/yellow they made.

[ChickenPoop]

Originally Posted by Silverwing

Yea, that's gonna be a no from me on the liftback. Can't stand that design.
Want a hatchback, buy a hatchback, leave the Camaro alone.

I'm hoping for more options, more colors, more customization. Seems like they are trimming the more bright colors, not counting that weird shock green/yellow they made.

Yep. Pissed me off when they ditched yellow. I like a well done yellow.

[swizlstik]

Love my Camaro!!

[BlackbeastSS2]

Originally Posted by Agrsiv

I personally wouldn't even consider buying a liftback! I love my "18" and aside from gen 1, I think it's the best looking Camaro yet.

What he said X10!!!

[Snrub]

The 3rd and 4th gen car had glass hatches. Do the Audi S5 or Kia Stinger look abnormal? IMO they look great. A lot of people don't like the current trunk opening - The car could literally look the same, but the trunk and rear glass area would move up as one to reveal more usable space. I don't see the downside to a lift back.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by JaxChris

Al O. refuses to put T-Tops back on the menu because of rigidity, so we're not getting a true B-pillar liftback either.

I like the idea of sticking nothing but SBC's into the engine compartment, especially now that CAFE has been loosened.

Alpha2 would likely reduce footprint even more, and we're already complaining about being cramped and lacking interior storage compartments. If anything, they should stop trying to be 1 inch smaller than the Mustang. If would not have killed the car or its' overall performance level to make the doors 0.5" deeper, elongate the door pockets, move the dash up an inch, place the vents above the center screen, move the AC 'buttons' to the touchscreen, create a pocket where the current center vents exist, and deepen the armrest storage by 1.5".

I would also say the knee bolster pads need a redesign so that they are where they need to be for any size driver. At 6'3", I constantly find that the stitch line is firmly in the side of my kneecap and it feels like crap after an hour. A bowing pad with more length would work with more heights and seat positions.

For the trunk, I would gladly give up 2 inches of depth to get the rear seat a little more room. On the subject of trunk. A wider trunk lid opening that eliminates the rear panel section would provide sufficient width for most loading operations (except golf clubs, because seriously, those guys would buy 'Vettes and they don't hold clubs). The wider top opening allows for less longitudinal space, so the C-pillars can come back further, giving a fastback appeal, more rear headroom, and the ability to lower the rear deck about 1.5" so the window is as big as the rear view mirror. I think that is the biggest thing that mentally messes with people, more so than the short height of the door glass.

For the rear bumper, take the bubble bump off the bottom. From an aero perspective, rolling up from the diffuser to the wing should be a smooth motion. There is nothing behind that cover that can't be tucked or shrunk.

Side mirrors, get them off of the crease. The first time they get bumped by a careless persons actions they never seal again and more air gets into the door, vibrating through the A-pillar and ruining the voice microphone clarity when you're on the highway.

Transmissions -- the 8L90 is a disaster. Now even the Colorado V6 with 8L45 is hitting service departments with similar problems. The 10L90 in the ZL1 is a hardened 10R80, and should have been the 2019 replacement for all vehicles instead of the 10L80 (which is nearly identical to the 10R80). Ford is having trouble with the 10R80 in regular F-150's and Mustangs already. Go back to ZF for help or stick with the 10L90's more proven resilience. Or admit that AFM is a shudder prone event and stop trying to program the TCM to ruin the transmission in an attempt to cover up the NVH.

Headlights -- I know why GM made them thinner, but I still don't understand the ugly almost "unibrow" look. Are GM designers that checked out that anything left in the trash bin that hasn't been used by someone is what they are willing to use in order to get a unique look? It doesn't help that you constantly blur the visual cues between the Camaro and Malibu at night. People don't make that mistake with the Mustang. And Dodge only makes 2 cars anymore (good riddance to the Dart), and since they both offer the same schtick, they can look the same from the front or rear if Dodge wants because confusing them isn't a downgrade to either of them.

NPP Exhaust -- move the valves in front of the muffler and use them as a diverter to a bypass chamber in the muffler. Bring both chambers back together just before the outlet to however many tips you want on each side. The two opposing chambers will act as J-pipes for each other, giving a smoother note whether it is in mild or wild mode. Relocating the valve would allow for a stiffer mechanism to be used without getting the ting sound when little ceramic pins fail.

HUD & cluster -- 2SS, ZL1 & 1LE should have it all. Larger HUD projection image, more pages, ability to choose elements on a page from the center touchscreen. The gauge cluster should go full digital display. Rip off Ford or Audi, don't care, just make it functional and customizable. And stop sticking indicators in corners of the cluster where they can't be seen through the steering wheel.

Bring back Homelink. You can't seriously be that lazy that you rob the harness power wire to Homelink instead of increasing voltage to the Onstar control power wire that's already going to the mirror? Oh noes, a harness wire had to get bumped up a gauge, it's still the same harness design. Sheesh.

Sharkfin -- get rid of it. I have yet to see a factory delivered Camaro where the fin is perfectly straight. If you can't make a good jig for mounting it, stop doing it. Relocate under the rear deck cover and take the signal loss or come up with a better antenna cover idea. I'm happy losing Onstar and SiriusXM, to be honest. GPS antenna is under the dashboard, if I recall, so navigation is still good to go. And then that wire is available for Homelink again -- win/win.

Front bumpers -- the SEMA concept is just a bandaid on what is still the stupidest refresh decision GM has made to a performance vehicle. Nothing else to say about the 2019's front bumper. As for design help... cheekbones, stop using them. Air curtains, make them very subtle instead of drawing attention to them.

Taillights -- not sure why you felt the need to update the lights. Yet again you did nothing to the dimensions of the opening to which they are mounted. So what uncoordinated moron thought stuffing round pegs into an existing square/rectangle hole was the right move? And why make them protrude? Again, smooth rear surface. This is why so much sh!t collects on the lips and edges of the rear end.

Black package -- I love this change. They should have allowed a black splitter, black wing and black mirrors option for 16-18. I would have definitely paid you to use lower cost GBA on those parts. And the black bowtie should be all black or gloss black/matte black two-tone. There should be no faux-chrome on that plastic. Make the passive entry buttons black too while you're at it.

GMPP -- need better support here. Aftermarket is contracting and factory performance upgrades at GM that are warrantable are slim. Why not offer up the 535 package with a tune and a GMPP warranty, similar to the FR warranty substitute? Offer e85 upgrade as well for a 575 package. Let dealers get competitive with the pricing and install by making the GMPP substitute warranty a separate, optional charge. An eLSD package for the SS automatics would be nice too -- OR JUST OFFER THE 1LE WITH AN AUTOMATIC ALREADY.

But seriously, GM, get your head out of your ass with whatever led to this problem with the 8L transmissions. You make the refresh look like it contracted gangrene and its' face melted off when we're already having trouble trusting you to give us a reliable powertrain. That is why your sales are sinking faster than the competition in key, high-margin vehicle segments. Investors are going to sue for poor guidance because you fail to realize the damage to trust in the GM brand that these transmission problems are causing. I wanted a Silverado, nevermind. Ok, maybe I'll get the Tahoe, nope same problems. Alright, not getting another full size because I can't trust you. Hey the misses wanted to get rid of the Equinox for a sports coupe, she refused to consider the Camaro because of the number of times mine has been in repair. We now have a Mustang next to my Camaro. And the Mustang is far more comfortable to sit in for a weekend cruise. WTF?!?!? And it has usable storage compartments.

/rant

T-tops will never come back due to a FMVSS requirements for roof crush and side impact (pole) test requirements. It has little to do with what Al wants. It would simply add too much cost and mass.