[rayruner]

Just received a email from vermont tuning about a tune, i was going to use a second computer, but brian mentioned his warranty guard, anyone know anything about that good or bad.

[cooper1965]

I talked about this subject a little bit a few topics down in my Vermont Tuning Review thread. It's kinda long though, so I will paste the only thing I'm going to say about that service here.



"I won't go into detail about the incremental PCM write count protection Vtuner offers, but after exchanging files with Brian for the last month, I have a good understanding of how he does it, and its quite genius. Im 100% confident following the instructions to restore the factory tune, it will be completely UN-detectable by any tool we use here at the dealership level. I do believe this service can only be achieved using EFI live."


Hope that helps!

[rayruner]

must have missed your tuning thread. thanks

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by cooper1965

I won't go into detail about the incremental PCM write count protection Vtuner offers, but after exchanging files with Brian for the last month, I have a good understanding of how he does it, and its quite genius. Im 100% confident following the instructions to restore the factory tune, it will be completely UN-detectable by any tool we use here at the dealership level. I do believe this service can only be achieved using EFI live."

Out of curiosity, doesn't GM require dealers to send in the module(s) prior to approving any major warranty powertrain work to verify their factory status? Or perhaps there is an honor system in place, say, up to a certain number of automatically approved warranty cases per period?

(Not trying to suggest GM should do so, and of course I assume they have it locked down good enough to detect any changes, which might not be the case.)

[cooper1965]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Out of curiosity, doesn't GM require dealers to send in the module(s) prior to approving any major warranty powertrain work to verify their factory status? Or perhaps there is an honor system in place, say, up to a certain number of automatically approved warranty cases per period?

(Not trying to suggest GM should do so, and of course I assume they have it locked down good enough to detect any changes, which might not be the case.)

Hey bro!!


"If" GM requests write counts, they only require an actual screen shot from within the software sent to them usually. In the last 20 years, I've only heard of modules being requested a small number of times. They were on suspect "high" end cars that are popular for alterations. ATS-V, ZR1, ZL1 ect.. Expensive to fix units with a questionable history or more. It costs GM a significant amount of money to go through the PCM's with their software, so its unlikely. BUT, If that happens, its game over. Ghosted OS's, re-flashes, swapped PCM's, piggy-backs, ect ect ....nothing is safe.

[arpad_m]

Originally Posted by cooper1965

Hey bro!!


"If" GM requests write counts, they only require an actual screen shot from within the software sent to them usually. In the last 20 years, I've only heard of modules being requested a small number of times. They were on suspect "high" end cars that are popular for alterations. ATS-V, ZR1, ZL1 ect.. Expensive to fix units with a questionable history or more. It costs GM a significant amount of money to go through the PCM's with their software, so its unlikely. BUT, If that happens, its game over. Ghosted OS's, re-flashes, swapped PCM's, piggy-backs, ect ect ....nothing is safe.

Hey, wazzup Many thanks for the insider info, much appreciated. It's genuine professional curiousity, me being a software engineer and knowing how the automotive industry is usually behind the tip of the curve.

(Not that I'm about to go down the tuning route any time soon, but FI is definitely in the cards---once I learn to drive properly, up to my own expectations. You know, taking one step at a time, starting with the driver mod. Well, technically a CAI and a catch can were first, but real power adders will only come when I can handle them. But even then I'll simply man up, give up the warranty and not try to hide the tune.)

[cooper1965]

Originally Posted by arpad_m

Hey, wazzup Many thanks for the insider info, much appreciated. It's genuine professional curiousity, me being a software engineer and knowing how the automotive industry is usually behind the tip of the curve.

Boy you got that right. Its getting crazy, but more is coming.
(That's why I gotta keep you on my good side haha, we may need each others skill set in the future )


GM's phase-1 process, currently active on new duramax's, is already a multi-factor authentication and a 2048 bit key exchange using a hash digest unique for each VIN ECM and TCM. Writing any module requires a unique encrypted digital signature, virtually making it impossible to tune the way we used too, if at even at all. I can't confirm yet, but rumor has is this type of security will become standard across the board with GM starting in 2019-2020.

[Kevin_S17]

Originally Posted by rayruner

Just received a email from vermont tuning about a tune, i was going to use a second computer, but brian mentioned his warranty guard, anyone know anything about that good or bad.

Speaking from personal experience. I had a tune from VT Tuning on my 2017 2.0T. I got the warranty guard as my car had approx. 3k miles on it. Engine took a dump at approx. 3800 miles. I re-flashed the stock tune that Brian at VT Tuning sent me. Took the car to the dealer. The dealer checked out the car - end result engine replaced under warranty.

Totally worth it. Had I used anyone else as a tuner, I'm pretty sure I would have been screwed.

[dekes1]

Originally Posted by Kevin_S17

Speaking from personal experience. I had a tune from VT Tuning on my 2017 2.0T. I got the warranty guard as my car had approx. 3k miles on it. Engine took a dump at approx. 3800 miles. I re-flashed the stock tune that Brian at VT Tuning sent me. Took the car to the dealer. The dealer checked out the car - end result engine replaced under warranty.

Totally worth it. Had I used anyone else as a tuner, I'm pretty sure I would have been screwed.

Wait, you got a VT tune and 800 miles later your engine blew up? Did that in itself not raise huge red flags? Warranty guard sounds great, but is it only needed because the tune was risky and poorly tested to begin with?

One could argue that your final statement is the exact opposite: if you had used anyone else as a tuner, you wouldn't have been screwed by a blown engine

[cooper1965]

Originally Posted by dekes1

Wait, you got a VT tune and 800 miles later your engine blew up? Did that in itself not raise huge red flags? Warranty guard sounds great, but is it only needed because the tune was risky and poorly tested to begin with?

One could argue that your final statement is the exact opposite: if you had used anyone else as a tuner, you wouldn't have been screwed by a blown engine

He had a previous engine issue there bud. Lets not go jump to absurd assumptions here lol.

[Kevin_S17]

Originally Posted by dekes1

Wait, you got a VT tune and 800 miles later your engine blew up? Did that in itself not raise huge red flags? Warranty guard sounds great, but is it only needed because the tune was risky and poorly tested to begin with?

One could argue that your final statement is the exact opposite: if you had used anyone else as a tuner, you wouldn't have been screwed by a blown engine

As Cooper1965 mentioned - long story short but I heard what I thought was spark knock at high rpms above 5000 rpm. I was thinking "no way my new engine has spark knock". I "thought" it was the Injen CAI I had installed and was making noise knocking against the inner fender. So I continued driving it while trying to keep the CAI in place. To make matters more interesting, the CAI was defective. The air filter kept coming loose from the housing. So I kept struggling with the CAI all the time thinking the knocking noise was originating from it.

I'm actually really glad I installed the tune when I did (it was on the car for a grand total of 10 hrs). I had a log of the engine running on the stock tune. I had a log running right before the engine crapped out. It showed all engine parameters in normal range. Engine failure is definitely a material issue as the engine was doomed from the start.

[dekes1]

Originally Posted by cooper1965

He had a previous engine issue there bud. Lets not go jump to absurd assumptions here lol.

Let's not call the addition of a tune and a short term later engine failure as absurd. It's a fair, and required challenge, when evaluating Tuner's competency.
I see more and more blown engines on these forums and can't help but question the origination.

And no offense intended to Kevin_S17, but "my engine sounds like it's knocking and I can't find the cause, but I'm still going to proceed with an aftermarket tune" is an interesting thought process.

[cooper1965]

Originally Posted by dekes1

Let's not call the addition of a tune and a short term later engine failure as absurd. It's a fair, and required challenge, when evaluating Tuner's competency.
I see more and more blown engines on these forums and can't help but question the origination.

And no offense intended to Kevin_S17, but "my engine sounds like it's knocking and I can't find the cause, but I'm still going to proceed with an aftermarket tune" is an interesting thought process.

Yeah, I hear ya on that man. My "absurd" comment was more directed at your two statements here:

Originally Posted by dekes1

"the tune was risky and poorly tested to begin with"
"if you had used anyone else as a tuner, you wouldn't have been screwed by a blown engine"

That is just simply not the case. In fact, Kevin here, is the first example I've seen of a blown engine with a Vtune(If you want to call 10 hours having a tune). The other blown engine examples ranged the board from all the major players, too a few not so major players.



Truth is, none of them may even be related to the "tune" per say. These engines have a history, and they are not much different today then they were yesterday. We are still replacing LTG's under warranty on cars that are obviously UN-modified. Usually with extremely low mileage. Symptom's are always the same, damage follows suit. Piston, ring land ect.. Im with you on questioning the origins though. I've often wondered if the root issue isn't a detonation problem. Its one of the main reasons I use the fuel I do.

[Kevin_S17]

Originally Posted by dekes1

And no offense intended to Kevin_S17, but "my engine sounds like it's knocking and I can't find the cause, but I'm still going to proceed with an aftermarket tune" is an interesting thought process.

Agreed, doesn’t look like a great decision in hindsight. Probably a little bit of ignorance on my part and listening to too many people in this forum. Particularly the part where I was told that if you get knock after installing a CAI you should get it “tuned out”. Should have just removed the CAI. Lesson learned.