[Chef-j]

Originally Posted by PRAY

E content doesnt effect N/A cars near as much as F/I cars. Also, if it was jus an E content deal then the curves would all look the same and just be at different levels. Plus the lowest power car had a 20% E advantage above the second highest car.

The point of this post was to illustrate that "evenly" modded cars all don't put out cookie cutter numbers. Not even on the same dyno. Now imagine if these were different dynos across the country.

Thats good to know.

I do see a point of this post now, its good testing results for who worries much about numbers.

[PRAY]

Originally Posted by laynlo15

Dyno's are just a tuning tool. If they all go to the track the one with the least hp on the dyno might run quicker then the ones with the most hp. Many on the this forum have put down better numbers on the dyno then mine and run 1/2 second slower at the track, so those numbers even though I know your showing how different they are mean nothing going down the drag strip. But dam you put out some effort just to get them done and spent all day on the dyno. Hell of a deal so thanks for showing those who have never been on a dyno or thought all mods the same meant the same hp/torque on the dyno. Aren't speed engineering headers the cheap one and half the price of kooks? If that's the case they did a dam good job making hp.

Yes, Speed Engineering are the cheap ones.

I put no stock in dyno numbers, never have. But you already know that. It is however an effective tuning tool and can show flaws in a certain car or product. That's all it's good for is testing.

[laynlo15]

I totally agree with that.

[laynlo15]

Was the quality of that header decent? Fit? Got to get some long tubes for my build so looking for alternatives.

[PRAY]

Originally Posted by laynlo15

Was the quality of that header decent? Fit? Got to get some long tubes for my build so looking for alternatives.

Plug wire clearance has been an issue. The rest seemed to be fine.

[PRAY]

E is a strange animal. It doesn't seem to matter much power wise from 12.5-13.2 AFR. But as E content goes up getting it a little leaner does help. I have heard you get to a point of the fuel portion taking up space that could be filled by oxygen. I prefer to run them at the leaner side of things. No need to have extra fuel if it isn't helping. On an F/I car I can see it for it's cooling properties, but not on a N/A car.

[TJay74]

I am going to say the Red car with the E81 did a little better as the last timing modifier comes in when the Ethanol is over 80%.

I think from my foggy memory the timing modifier for the Ethanol tables are:

10%
20%
40%
60%
80%

And as said, you can have 3 exact same cars with the exact same mods and they all 3 will put down different power. Lots of variable comes into play in regards to that. How the car was broken in, the internal friction losses and efficiencies of each vehicle and several others.

[PRAY]

Originally Posted by TJay74

I am going to say the Red car with the E81 did a little better as the last timing modifier comes in when the Ethanol is over 80%.

I think from my foggy memory the timing modifier for the Ethanol tables are:

10%
20%
40%
60%
80%

And as said, you can have 3 exact same cars with the exact same mods and they all 3 will put down different power. Lots of variable comes into play in regards to that. How the car was broken in, the internal friction losses and efficiencies of each vehicle and several others.

I have my own scale adjustment I make for the E spark adder. I messed with the E51 cars scale and it didn't make a difference. So I went back to the normal added.

You hit on the head with these cars. People think it is only about the mods to the motor. There is no consideration to the clutch/converter, trans, rear diff, rear brakes, wheel/tires. It all adds up.

[parish8]

Those numbers seem incredibly similar to me. Happy to see the one with the most E and lightest wheels came out on top.

I bet if you 100% marched the parts, wheels, fuel... that difference would be 10hp or less. That is crazy consistent. I don’t see too many people out there freeking our about their numbers being 10 lower than expected.

[PRAY]

Originally Posted by parish8

Those numbers seem incredibly similar to me. Happy to see the one with the most E and lightest wheels came out on top.

I bet if you 100% marched the parts, wheels, fuel... that difference would be 10hp or less. That is crazy consistent. I don’t see too many people out there freeking our about their numbers being 10 lower than expected.

Stock rims and tires would have been nice on all three cars.

I think the # 1 and 2 cars would have been almost identical had the E content been the same and both had dry filters. But the tq on the lowest one has me a bit worried.

I have had people wonder why another car made 2rw more than theis on the same dyno and ask what I could have done wrong.

[parish8]

do you have your own dyno? I really enjoy spending time on the dyno and seeing incremental changes as things progress, I just don't like paying for the dyno time and always feel rushed when I am being charged $80/hr. I am trying hard to figure out a way to get my own dyno and a place to put it.

[cmitchell17]

Originally Posted by parish8

do you have your own dyno? I really enjoy spending time on the dyno and seeing incremental changes as things progress, I just don't like paying for the dyno time and always feel rushed when I am being charged $80/hr. I am trying hard to figure out a way to get my own dyno and a place to put it.

With electronics and controls as cheap as they are now, I feel like dynos may not have as much of a use anymore, unless you have a load cell engine dyno. I would think someone would have made some kind of strain gage or something you could put somewhere in the drivetrain. I've tried to use virtual dyno and comparing PIDs from the speed sensors to compare tuning changes, its just too hard to find a consistent flat place and keep the car in gear with the TC locked. I only could ever quantify differences in virtual dyno runs when I opened up the NPP exhaust and from E85, never saw anything from tuning changes and trying to compare peak WOT timing and AFR just ends up almost impossible.

[PRAY]

Originally Posted by parish8

do you have your own dyno? I really enjoy spending time on the dyno and seeing incremental changes as things progress, I just don't like paying for the dyno time and always feel rushed when I am being charged $80/hr. I am trying hard to figure out a way to get my own dyno and a place to put it.

I don't have a dyno. I pay every time I use it. It came up the other day about how much I have spent on the development of this platform. With parts, travel, dyno time, track time and the cost of the car I think I am a bit over 80K out of my own pocket to offer the best parts and services I can. That doesn't include the lost wages time of just getting to the dyno and testing. I basically make nothing when I take a customers car to the dyno to just get numbers. From the multiple times I have done it I have honestly never gained more than 3-5rw over my base remote or street tune. I could have bought a dyno a couple times over now. LOL.

As soon as my new house is finished I plan on putting a dyno in. Just haven't decided on which one yet.

[TJay74]

I was wondering how long until you went down the road of buying a dyno. I would go with a Eddy load dyno like the Mustang or the Dynojet version. At least they allow you the ability to load the vehicle up and be able to test driveability if needed.