[Balzdeep]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

F1A94 runs $9500 for the race kit. I'm in for $12k labor included. About the same that this kit will run. Actually, the base TT kit runs $9k. Tuning not included nor are any other accessory parts. To go all in on this kit, you are in it for a good $13k. So, around $16k plus with labor and tuning. That leaves another good $4k for me to spend which obviously would be spent on a 427 build which would in return gap the living hell out of this car.



Btw, I'm stock as well so. haha. You have no argument. I'll give this car the sauce.



That kit at 18.5 lbs makes the same HP my single PC makes on 24 lbs.


The only kit I'd buy if I owned a Coyote would be Aldo's kit. His Maroon Coyote is laying waste in Houston right now. Of course, it's a $25k kit, but that's on stock internals. Can't imagine it on a built motor.

You need my screen name. Lol.

No, my point was you can buy that base 18 GT a10 for 32-33k. Half the cost of your car new. Big savings to pay for those kits. lol.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Balzdeep

You need my screen name. Lol.

No, my point was you can buy that base 18 GT a10 for 32-33k. Half the cost of your car new. Big savings to pay for those kits. lol.

And then by the time you get to stock ZL1 performance you'll have no warranty and the car will be worth $25K due to depreciation despite you already spending ZL1 money. Yea that's smart.

And here's another thing...mod your GT and wait for parts to arrive. Oops, the wrong part showed up. Send it back and wait for the right one to arrive. Meanwhile the car sits at the shop disassembled and racking up a nice bill. Parts arrive, some of them might be defective. Some of them might be missing stuff. Whatever. So you wait and wait and the car sits. Now you need a tune but the tuner's wife is sick or his dog died or his grandmother in law just got diagnosed with cancer or his daughter got abducted by aliens or some other nonsense for not having the tune ready. So you wait even more. And now everything is ready to go and guess what...the axles you bought that were rated for 1000 RWHP snapped on the first pass at way less than 1000 RWHP. So you have to upgrade to the 1500 RWHP axles just to hold your 750 RWHP car. And the car gets towed home and sits. And finally (again) everything is ready to go but the tune is acting up and the tuner this time is vacationing on Jupiter or some damn where. Or you got "bad gas" as the Mustang community will tell you because it is never the tuner's fault...until it happens to you that is. So you wait again. All that for a base model GT with no creature comforts and that won't be worth shit if you tried to sell it because some tire kicker will try to talk you down considering that all these GT guys are getting their cars for pennies on the dollar even when they're brand new. I think I'll keep my ZL1...

[Balzdeep]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

And then by the time you get to stock ZL1 performance you'll have no warranty and the car will be worth $25K due to depreciation despite you already spending ZL1 money. Yea that's smart.

And here's another thing...mod your GT and wait for parts to arrive. Oops, the wrong part showed up. Send it back and wait for the right one to arrive. Meanwhile the car sits at the shop disassembled and racking up a nice bill. Parts arrive, some of them might be defective. Some of them might be missing stuff. Whatever. So you wait and wait and the car sits. Now you need a tune but the tuner's wife is sick or his dog died or his grandmother in law just got diagnosed with cancer or his daughter got abducted by aliens or some other nonsense for not having the tune ready. So you wait even more. And now everything is ready to go and guess what...the axles you bought that were rated for 1000 RWHP snapped on the first pass at way less than 1000 RWHP. So you have to upgrade to the 1500 RWHP axles just to hold your 750 RWHP car. And the car gets towed home and sits. And finally (again) everything is ready to go but the tune is acting up and the tuner this time is vacationing on Jupiter or some damn where. Or you got "bad gas" as the Mustang community will tell you because it is never the tuner's fault...until it happens to you that is. So you wait again. All that for a base model GT with no creature comforts and that won't be worth shit if you tried to sell it because some tire kicker will try to talk you down considering that all these GT guys are getting their cars for pennies on the dollar even when they're brand new. I think I'll keep my ZL1...

Blow your $$ however ya want Bro. Lol.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Balzdeep

Blow your $$ however ya want Bro. Lol.

This I agree with, the Mustang guy can basically buy two Mustangs, so who cares how long one stays at the shop. If you can't afford to mod your car, and have a backup DD, then don't. No issues at all. One reason I don't like working with the younger performance crowd (yes broad brush painting), is that they want it all, cheap price on install, low to no markup on price of parts, need them installed as soon as I drop the car off at 5:30 PM on Friday, want it to work perfectly out of the box.

Yep there are shops like that Lingenfelter, just they offer less performance vs a lot higher price than any other Houston shop, I only assume they have a reasonable delivery time. We know shops like Hennessey have a spotty reputation on timely delivery, but admittedly probably are getting more performance. It is a continuum and it ends with the biggest wallet. Even then I personally would question Hennessy's HP quoted vs the components installed, but I'm conservative by nature. Hennessy does offer warranty, so maybe I'm a worry wart.


Now take the Porsche guys (yes broad brush painting) $25,000 for a rebuild MINIMALLY, you call me when it is done, could be 1 month could be 5 months, there is NO warranty implied, don't cry to the shop about you needing the ride to take the wife to the alternative birthing clinic. Completely different clientele.

If you got the bucks for either ride stock ZL1 1LE vs 350R great, but this makes up a SMALL (miniscule) portion of the Mustang vs Camaro debate. Nearly 1000 post ago, when we went all the way back to the 60s. Ford is a pay to play company. has been since day one, the ZL1 1LE vs 350R AFAIK are separated by at lest $10,000 bucks out the door in favor of Chevy. I perceive Chevy to have value at each portion of the segment. In this go around it would seem that Fords is the underdog and it gets the Mustang guys all hot and bothered that even when they pay... the are not getting the play. There is always somebody with more bucks, somebody that is faster. For the Mustang it means $$$$ at each and every level, will Ford jump ahead with the 500? don't know, but they are down big IMO and need a win on the high end. I do think the 2019 GT finally brings at least some reasonable Joe Average, weekend 1/4 mile, type of competition to the table, great! But again it is pay to play, you gotta start putting $$$$$ into the option list just to equal the base SS in others forms of racing (not street and 1/4 mile) back to Ford's mantra "pay to paly". For me I don't like ADM, the $$$$$ to get a package, hence I have a base SS AND a supercharged 2016 Civic SI on the savings vs the 350 that I really wanted.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Balzdeep

Blow your $$ however ya want Bro. Lol.

You do the same. End of the day you will lose a lot more money modding your GT than I ever will modding my ZL1. ANd you'll still have just a base GT. And I'm not cutting on you. I'm just saying that there are reasons why some of us spend more money on a higher model car. For one, those of us here with ZL1s have no interest in a base model anything unless it's a second vehicle or a beater. For another reason, you'd have to mod the entire car and some of us been down that road and don't ever wanna go back down it again. So yea I'll spend my money how I want and it won't be on something that needs a major facelift and rebuild just to give me what I could have bought and had a warranty on right off the bat.

And for the record, don't pretend like the Mustang threads aren't full of issues with modded cars. That is something else I'd never wanna deal with again.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

You do the same. End of the day you will lose a lot more money modding your GT than I ever will modding my ZL1. ANd you'll still have just a base GT. And I'm not cutting on you. I'm just saying that there are reasons why some of us spend more money on a higher model car. For one, those of us here with ZL1s have no interest in a base model anything unless it's a second vehicle or a beater. For another reason, you'd have to mod the entire car and some of us been down that road and don't ever wanna go back down it again. So yea I'll spend my money how I want and it won't be on something that needs a major facelift and rebuild just to give me what I could have bought and had a warranty on right off the bat.

And for the record, don't pretend like the Mustang threads aren't full of issues with modded cars. That is something else I'd never wanna deal with again.

Very true, I don't pretend at all that the money I dropped on my supercharged Civic SI, could not have easily purchased a Type R. My supercharge Challenger same deal, my supercharged, heads, cam, headers etc 6th gen Camaro... ZL1. I will say this I have gotten good money back returning my cars to stock / near stock and selling the parts but I do my own labor. There is a LOT to be said by just getting a ZL1 or GT 350 and enjoying the car stock everyday if you like.

I like modding cars, and sure each time I tell the Oldlady, "I'm keeping this one stock"... each time that does not last. I do keep a few family base rides stock, but for some reason I end up throwing stupid money into my cars. You know what they say" I spent most of my money on booze, women and fast cars.... the rest I just wasted."

[Balzdeep]

It is still shocking low 30’s buys you a 1200 whp capable motor and trans as it sits. That again, is very impressive. I can go buy a 2000 hp race engine and put in what ever the **** I want and go fast. $$$$. .

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Balzdeep

It is still shocking low 30’s buys you a 1200 whp capable motor and trans as it sits. That again, is very impressive. I can go buy a 2000 hp race engine and put in what ever the **** I want and go fast. $$$$. .

Even less if you consider lightly used, which you may as well if you're modding the crap out of it.

With the back and forth on brands, it gets lost sometimes just how much we get for the money these days.

GT's in the 20's, , 1LE's for low 30's, it is INSANE!

[DiGiam]

I didn't read all 168 pages but the fact that we are having to talk about a Zl1 competing with a GT is a problem. That gen 3 coyote is just way too easy to get power out of. Guys are routinely hitting 675-700 on bone stock engines with just fuel injectors and fuel pump. Try that on an ss Camaro or ZL1 for that matter. With headers and a free flowing exhaust Ive seen the new mustang hit 750 on pump gas with room left over. How long will it last? who knows. Its definitely a crap shoot and you will lose the warranty. Given a choice, id go for the Zl1 because of all the things they don't talk about. Forged engine, stronger axles, stronger transmission, better handling, and a warranty with 650hp. but you still cant deny the capability of the new mustang.

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by DiGiam

I didn't read all 168 pages but the fact that we are having to talk about a Zl1 competing with a GT is a problem. That gen 3 coyote is just way too easy to get power out of. Guys are routinely hitting 675-700 on bone stock engines with just fuel injectors and fuel pump. Try that on an ss Camaro or ZL1 for that matter. With headers and a free flowing exhaust Ive seen the new mustang hit 750 on pump gas with room left over. How long will it last? who knows. Its definitely a crap shoot and you will lose the warranty. Given a choice, id go for the Zl1 because of all the things they don't talk about. Forged engine, stronger axles, stronger transmission, better handling, and a warranty with 650hp. but you still cant deny the capability of the new mustang.

Unless I'm reading this wrong, a gen 3 Coyote gained 300 hp from headers and a free flowing exhaust? Damn!!

[MaskedRacerX]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

Unless I'm reading this wrong, a gen 3 Coyote gained 300 hp from headers and a free flowing exhaust? Damn!!

PLus a CAI, that's a good +90-100HP of that 300 ...







(assuming FI is implied in his post)

[DiGiam]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

Unless I'm reading this wrong, a gen 3 Coyote gained 300 hp from headers and a free flowing exhaust? Damn!!

I was comparing forced induction to forced induction smart ass.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by DiGiam

I was comparing forced induction to forced induction smart ass.

LT4 engines with a Procharger and LTs are hitting well into the 800s and that is RWHP. A bunch of guys out there on a PC and LTs are in the 850 RWHP range easily.

For a Coyote to get to those power levels and do it safely and to have all the supporting mods to use that power effectively would mean modding the entire car. AT that point, unless you bought a base model for dirt cheap, you'll be spending ZL1 money anyway. And plenty of SS guys are well into the 10s, 9s, and even faster and pushing over 1000 RWHP. It isn't just Mustangs doing it. They just like to brag about it more than anyone else because it makes them look better. But I do find it funny when all the Mustang guys talk about how easy it is to build this and that but then you ask them how much they paid for it all and find out they spent $15K-$25K. Or you see a shop advertising how they can get you to 900 RWHP and you call them to find out the cost is gonna be around $15K, lol!!

[DiGiam]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

LT4 engines with a Procharger and LTs are hitting well into the 800s and that is RWHP. A bunch of guys out there on a PC and LTs are in the 850 RWHP range easily.

For a Coyote to get to those power levels and do it safely and to have all the supporting mods to use that power effectively would mean modding the entire car. AT that point, unless you bought a base model for dirt cheap, you'll be spending ZL1 money anyway. And plenty of SS guys are well into the 10s, 9s, and even faster and pushing over 1000 RWHP. It isn't just Mustangs doing it. They just like to brag about it more than anyone else because it makes them look better. But I do find it funny when all the Mustang guys talk about how easy it is to build this and that but then you ask them how much they paid for it all and find out they spent $15K-$25K. Or you see a shop advertising how they can get you to 900 RWHP and you call them to find out the cost is gonna be around $15K, lol!!

I agree. They have to spend so much more in suspension, axles, and everything else to hold that kind of power. Id still pick a Zl1 over a gen 3 coyote everyday. I was just making the point that they can get a lot of power out of those engines with entry level supercharger kits. In the end, the deepest pockets always win