[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by Mountain

I will say this: I really like the Coyote. That is such a sweet engine. Now, don't get me wrong, I love the LT1, great engine, but if I had to choose between the two? Yeah, I'd take the Coyote. Why? Good displacement. DOHC with TiVCT. Very durable high-RPM capability. Great OEM intake system. Great heads. Not overly complicated. A very power-dense powertrain platform. Plus, it sounds good. The Coyote Gen3 is awesome, but I'm not a fan of the spray bores - I'd rather opt for a minute displacement decrease and use the lined Gen2 block.

Honestly, there isn't a world in which I would choose a Coyote motor over a LS3, an LSX, or even an LT1/LT4. Sorry, but it's just not worth the headache. I'd rather have power as soon as I depress the pedal. There is a reason why people use the LS motor so much. They just work, even out of a junkyard.

As far as the sound aspect, I'll give you that they do sound good. Mustangs have always done one specific thing right, and that is the sound. Both the exhaust and the car itself is just noisy enough to let people know what it is. That is still to me the one thing GM has failed to get right.

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

Honestly, there isn't a world in which I would choose a Coyote motor over a LS3, an LSX, or even an LT1/LT4. Sorry, but it's just not worth the headache. I'd rather have power as soon as I depress the pedal. There is a reason why people use the LS motor so much. They just work, even out of a junkyard.

As far as the sound aspect, I'll give you that they do sound good. Mustangs have always done one specific thing right, and that is the sound. Both the exhaust and the car itself is just noisy enough to let people know what it is. That is still to me the one thing GM has failed to get right.

Agree with everything you said except the the last part. IMO, with the NPP valves open, the SS sounds awesome. It sounds mean without having to be overwhelming. I guess I'm in the minority when I say it sounds better than the Mustang. The Mustang's exhaust note proves that louder isn't always better. But that's just my two cents.

[satanschariot666]

chevy motors have always sounded better

[BlaqWhole]

And now we have markups on the Bullitt. HAHA!! $5K and up. So you can buy a Ford with SS level of performance for more than the price of a ZL1. Sounds about right. Or you could buy a debadged GT with manual trans in vomit green and pay more than a GT350. Soo stupid. So now this car is even slower than the GT350 but will cost about the same amount. Way to go team Ford.

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

Agree with everything you said except the the last part. IMO, with the NPP valves open, the SS sounds awesome. It sounds mean without having to be overwhelming. I guess I'm in the minority when I say it sounds better than the Mustang. The Mustang's exhaust note proves that louder isn't always better. But that's just my two cents.

Originally Posted by satanschariot666

chevy motors have always sounded better

Unfortunately, the 5th gen and 6th gen cars are quite a bit subdued over what they should/could be. My 18 ZL1 is actually much quieter than my previous SS....and even with the NPP exhaust, I'd take the sound of my SS over it... muffler delete only exhaust...rest was stock....

What I am referring to is that people don't confuse a Mustang with a Honda when it goes by. I'm not saying a Camaro sounds like a Honda...but it is far quieter in my opinion than it needs to be..

[oldman]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

The coyote is more difficult to work on than an LT1 im sure but it ain't that much harder.

I've worked on many engine types, the LT1 is basically a LS engine with a slightly more complicated oil pump and two bolts for the DI pump. Excuse me while a laugh, the whole thought of changing out 4 cams, and 32 valve springs gets me tired. I find it incredabbly difficult to believe doing a ported head, cam, header swap is only "ain't much harder". The price of 4 cams is nearly 3x the price of a LT1 cam.

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

My long block is stock, It's no "big deal" anyway right? A

It is no big deal because the first half of the statement "stock long block" is IMPOSSIBLE TO PROVE. I HIGHLY doubt that 1/10 of the forum racers ever own up to blowing their own engine up.... it just not known. The cost of forged LT1 pistons is $1000... big deal, during a cam / head swap it might add 2 hours to the job


When a Ford guys says "stock long block" = at ain't worth it to mod. It is not a bug it is a feature, got it, thanks.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

Unfortunately, the 5th gen and 6th gen cars are quite a bit subdued over what they should/could be. My 18 ZL1 is actually much quieter than my previous SS....and even with the NPP exhaust, I'd take the sound of my SS over it... muffler delete only exhaust...rest was stock....

What I am referring to is that people don't confuse a Mustang with a Honda when it goes by. I'm not saying a Camaro sounds like a Honda...but it is far quieter in my opinion than it needs to be..

Try a Challenger if you want to say is this an Accord?

[oldman]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

my response was to oldman's rant about non functional design cues .

Must of hit a nerve here.. I merely mused that just about every Mustang for just about forever had fake stuff slapped on the hood and on the sides, HUGE ugly and completely fake.

The last F Body I had was a 4th gen, before that outside of one 350 Chevy powered Firebird (came that way from the dealer), my last F body before that was a 69 z/28. So, of course, I'm use to having the hood actually work.

So I merely MUSED that non-functional Mustang stuff just freaks me out. It goes without saying non-functional ANY Junk just freaks me out.

Then comes well the Camaro had a single exhaust... LOL, and it was still MUCH faster than a Mustang GT..... So I guess it was "functional".

[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by DevilsReject97

Unfortunately, the 5th gen and 6th gen cars are quite a bit subdued over what they should/could be. My 18 ZL1 is actually much quieter than my previous SS....and even with the NPP exhaust, I'd take the sound of my SS over it... muffler delete only exhaust...rest was stock....

What I am referring to is that people don't confuse a Mustang with a Honda when it goes by. I'm not saying a Camaro sounds like a Honda...but it is far quieter in my opinion than it needs to be..

The 2018 sounds pretty good but 15-17 stock exhaust was awful. 60dB of of putrid. I agree the Camaro could use a little more pop though.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by oldman

Must of hit a nerve here.. I merely mused that just about every Mustang for just about forever had fake stuff slapped on the hood and on the sides, HUGE ugly and completely fake.

The last F Body I had was a 4th gen, before that outside of one 350 Chevy powered Firebird (came that way from the dealer), my last F body before that was a 69 z/28. So, of course, I'm use to having the hood actually work.

So I merely MUSED that non-functional Mustang stuff just freaks me out. It goes without saying non-functional ANY Junk just freaks me out.

Then comes well the Camaro had a single exhaust... LOL, and it was still MUCH faster than a Mustang GT..... So I guess it was "functional".

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by oldman

I've worked on many engine types, the LT1 is basically a LS engine with a slightly more complicated oil pump and two bolts for the DI pump. Excuse me while a laugh, the whole thought of changing out 4 cams, and 32 valve springs gets me tired. I find it incredabbly difficult to believe doing a ported head, cam, header swap is only "ain't much harder". The price of 4 cams is nearly 3x the price of a LT1 cam.

So spending a grand or two replacing a rotating assembly on an engine that doesn't need it is a good move, but spending an extra $750 for cams is a big deal? LOL.

And for a guy whose worked on so many engines I find it laughable that having to change an additional 16 valve springs would bother you so much...BTW very few Coyote cams require a valve spring change to begin with, you're LT1 will require you to change out 16 springs as well as drop the oil pan or pull the whole motor...don't get too tired oldman.

such a cheap and easy job , yet you're still running the stock cam

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

So spending a grand or two replacing a rotating assembly on an engine that doesn't need it is a good move, but spending an extra $750 for cams is a big deal? LOL.

And for a guy whose worked on so many engines I find it laughable that having to change an additional 16 valve springs would bother you so much...BTW very few Coyote cams require a valve spring change to begin with, you're LT1 will require you to change out 16 springs as well as drop the oil pan or pull the whole motor...don't get too tired oldman.

such a cheap and easy job , yet you're still running the stock cam

While I (hate to) agree (with you) that a cam swap isn't that difficult, I do have to disagree with you about the whole valve springs thing. I've found 2 things of note when swapping cams on an OHC engine. One is the "valve spring upgrade RECOMMENDED" warning and the other is the "valve spring upgrade REQUIRED" warning. Both of these warnings mean that you will have to upgrade the valve springs. Usually the one with the "recommended" warning absolutely WILL require them to be upgraded. And the cams that are compatible with the stock valve springs are not worth the swap anyway. At least that is how it was back some time ago. Maybe these 3rd Gen Coyote engines come with extra strong valve springs, I don't know. But experience has taught me that if you're doing a cam on a OHC engine and you want it to be better than stock or worth the effort then you are going to be swapping out those springs at one point or another.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by oldman

I've worked on many engine types, the LT1 is basically a LS engine with a slightly more complicated oil pump and two bolts for the DI pump. Excuse me while a laugh, the whole thought of changing out 4 cams, and 32 valve springs gets me tired. I find it incredabbly difficult to believe doing a ported head, cam, header swap is only "ain't much harder". The price of 4 cams is nearly 3x the price of a LT1 cam.





It is no big deal because the first half of the statement "stock long block" is IMPOSSIBLE TO PROVE. I HIGHLY doubt that 1/10 of the forum racers ever own up to blowing their own engine up.... it just not known. The cost of forged LT1 pistons is $1000... big deal, during a cam / head swap it might add 2 hours to the job


When a Ford guys says "stock long block" = at ain't worth it to mod. It is not a bug it is a feature, got it, thanks.

I call BS on all these "stock bottom end" comments. Everyone is "simple bolt-ons" and "stock bottom ends" and has just a "tune, x-pipe, and intake" these days.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

While I (hate to) agree (with you) that a cam swap isn't that difficult, I do have to disagree with you about the whole valve springs thing. I've found 2 things of note when swapping cams on an OHC engine. One is the "valve spring upgrade RECOMMENDED" warning and the other is the "valve spring upgrade REQUIRED" warning. Both of these warnings mean that you will have to upgrade the valve springs. Usually the one with the "recommended" warning absolutely WILL require them to be upgraded. And the cams that are compatible with the stock valve springs are not worth the swap anyway. At least that is how it was back some time ago. Maybe these 3rd Gen Coyote engines come with extra strong valve springs, I don't know. But experience has taught me that if you're doing a cam on a OHC engine and you want it to be better than stock or worth the effort then you are going to be swapping out those springs at one point or another.

you don't swap the springs on the NSR cams from Comp for example and they are good for 40whp. If you do swap the springs to anything stiffer than a Boss302 spring you will start running into VCT issues and for that reason cams that require stiffer springs usually require VCT lockout at that point it ain't worth doing unless your building an all out race car.