[J_MaherAMG]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Wrong. The 1LE come prepared with everything needed. It is a track car that doesn't require adding on extra stuff. The GT350 needs this and/or that added on to be tracked. That's like ordering the 1LE and then having to opt in other features.

It was obviously such a great risk that Ford had to recall EVERY Shelby to resolve the potential issue. They even gave that one dude his money back or some shit even tho his Shelby was highly modded.

I can't say the same thing. If I can afford the faster car, then I'm getting the faster car.

This I have to disagree with. Most people have no idea what a FPC engine is. Even some of the Mustang guys aren't sure what it is. And I'm not sure where you gt info that it was the most universally loved engine...the Chevy 350s, the LS engine family, and the Hemis occupy that domain. The LS engines are the most widely used engines in just about everything from project cars to small aircraft to boat engines etc. You say "LS engine", "350", "5.7", or "Hemi" and everyone will know what you're talking about or will have heard of it. Heck I'll even give the "5.0" and "302" monikers recognition as being very well known. But you say "Voodoo" or "5.2 FPC" and very few people will know what you're talking about. Among the Ford crowd they are popular. But nobody else is impressed with them.

I believe you misread or misinterpreted my comment. When I speak of being universally praised, I'm purely talking about since the car has debuted, not a single review or journalist has had anything but positive things to say about the engine. It was in no means referencing that it is more well known, more respected, more of anything compared to other engines like those you mention. I also agree that most people, even most enthusiasts don't understand what a FPC is or the reasoning/benefits of it.

I do have to ask based on your faster comment, what do you do when the next car comes out and it is faster than yours? Perhaps you are in a much better financial standings than I, but I can't see any but the very rich being able to constantly chase the latest and greatest. That being said, if you couldn't afford to continually switch cars every 1-2 years when a faster model debuts, would you then be less satisfied or less excited about driving your current car? Hence my reasoning for purely looking for a car that would be the most fun to drive, based on my preferences.

They did perform a recall on a little over 8,000 units for the oil cooler line. There seemed to be only a very few who actually had issues. Based on the work that was done and the recall itself, it was a proactive fix for a possible manufacturing defect, an incorrectly placed crimp, on one of the oil cooler lines. The one guy you are referring to, his snap ring was not properly seated from the factory; it was what came loose on track and caused the fire. They did buy back his car and he got an R for a little under MSRP. His entire ordeal is recorded and recounted on the M6 site. Of course, since his modifications did not have anything to do with the snap ring, it was a non-issue.

And I would also agree with your first statement if we were to compare the MY16 350's that didn't have coolers standard. They rectified the issue for MY17 and have had zero issues since regarding cooling capabilities or track-ability.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Wrong. The 1LE come prepared with everything needed. It is a track car that doesn't require adding on extra stuff. The GT350 needs this and/or that added on to be tracked. That's like ordering the 1LE and then having to opt in other features.

Yup. Having track rats in management as opposed to having a bunch of guys sitting around after hours off the clock to come up with a package apparently is completely different, lol!!

"Since 17"...

Come on dude, you're smarter than this. You do not go to Chevy's website and order a 1LE...you order a Camaro then choose to add the 1LE option.

In 15-16 you did the exact same thing at Ford...you ordered a Shelby GT350 and then chose an option package, either Tech, Track pack or R.

17+ any GT350 includes the Track Pack.


As you say yourself the 1LE is a track car...the base/tech Shelby's were not designed to be in 15-16.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

Come on dude, you're smarter than this. You do not go to Chevy's website and order a 1LE...you order a Camaro then choose to add the 1LE option.

In 15-16 you did the exact same thing at Ford...you ordered a Shelby GT350 and then chose an option package, either Tech, Track pack or R.

17+ any GT350 includes the Track Pack.


As you say yourself the 1LE is a track car...the base/tech Shelby's were not designed to be in 15-16.

The SS and ZL1 are also track cars. The 1LE option gives more. See the difference?

GT350! The most track focused Mustang* ever with an amazing low MSRP of $49,995*

* standard in poser trim

That was not one of Fords better ideas but the poser editions MSRP combined with the track part made great headlines.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by J_MaherAMG

I believe you misread or misinterpreted my comment. When I speak of being universally praised, I'm purely talking about since the car has debuted, not a single review or journalist has had anything but positive things to say about the engine. It was in no means referencing that it is more well known, more respected, more of anything compared to other engines like those you mention. I also agree that most people, even most enthusiasts don't understand what a FPC is or the reasoning/benefits of it.

The LS engine family was still in production when the GT350 came out. Same as the Hemi. Out of all the engines I'd say the Hellcat is the most widely known and popular. People who have no interest in cars and don't know anything about them know what a Hellcat is and that it has 707 HP. And most people know the Ford 5.0 as well. I'd say if anything the GT350's engine is the least known and least popular. Maybe it does get praised among reviewers I'll give it that. But I also haven't seen negative comments about the LT1, LT4, etc. Despite all of the shortcomings that these engines, and the Voodoo engine has. Just consider how weird it is that an engine that had as drastic of a potential for a fire as the Voodoo received nothing but praise before and after the recall. No mention of any hazard. That is one critical piece of information to leave out. One would come to the conclusion that these reviewers aren't always diligent in their reporting.

Originally Posted by J_MaherAMG

I do have to ask based on your faster comment, what do you do when the next car comes out and it is faster than yours?

I'll buy it, lol!!

Originally Posted by J_MaherAMG

Perhaps you are in a much better financial standings than I, but I can't see any but the very rich being able to constantly chase the latest and greatest. That being said, if you couldn't afford to continually switch cars every 1-2 years when a faster model debuts, would you then be less satisfied or less excited about driving your current car? Hence my reasoning for purely looking for a car that would be the most fun to drive, based on my preferences.

I'm just saying that if I can afford the faster car then that is the one I'm getting. But that also depends on other factors like options, how much more money it costs and how much more performance I'll get for that money, markups, etc.

Originally Posted by J_MaherAMG

They did perform a recall on a little over 8,000 units for the oil cooler line. There seemed to be only a very few who actually had issues. Based on the work that was done and the recall itself, it was a proactive fix for a possible manufacturing defect, an incorrectly placed crimp, on one of the oil cooler lines. The one guy you are referring to, his snap ring was not properly seated from the factory; it was what came loose on track and caused the fire. They did buy back his car and he got an R for a little under MSRP. His entire ordeal is recorded and recounted on the M6 site. Of course, since his modifications did not have anything to do with the snap ring, it was a non-issue.

I am very well aware of what the issue was. And they recalled all of them. Every single last one. There were a handful who had the issue. I'm sure that not everyone who had the issue posted it to social media. Some were probably asked not to post about it. But they all had the potential which is why they all were recalled. I mentioned his modifications to show that Ford did not even bother considering that it wasn't their fault at all.

[J_MaherAMG]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The LS engine family was still in production when the GT350 came out. Same as the Hemi. Out of all the engines I'd say the Hellcat is the most widely known and popular. People who have no interest in cars and don't know anything about them know what a Hellcat is and that it has 707 HP. And most people know the Ford 5.0 as well. I'd say if anything the GT350's engine is the least known and least popular. Maybe it does get praised among reviewers I'll give it that. But I also haven't seen negative comments about the LT1, LT4, etc. Despite all of the shortcomings that these engines, and the Voodoo engine has. Just consider how weird it is that an engine that had as drastic of a potential for a fire as the Voodoo received nothing but praise before and after the recall. No mention of any hazard. That is one critical piece of information to leave out. One would come to the conclusion that these reviewers aren't always diligent in their reporting.

I'll buy it, lol!!

I'm just saying that if I can afford the faster car then that is the one I'm getting. But that also depends on other factors like options, how much more money it costs and how much more performance I'll get for that money, markups, etc.

I am very well aware of what the issue was. And they recalled all of them. Every single last one. There were a handful who had the issue. I'm sure that not everyone who had the issue posted it to social media. Some were probably asked not to post about it. But they all had the potential which is why they all were recalled. I mentioned his modifications to show that Ford did not even bother considering that it wasn't their fault at all.

Like I mentioned, I am by no means saying the Voodoo is as or ever will be as popular as the LS or Hemi engines. Fact is it never will be, there are far more people out there in the North American market who are looking for project engines like you said, and who would rather a torque monster of an engine rather than a high revving engine like the Voodoo. By comment was purely directed at the way the automotive world (i.e reviewers, journalists, media, etc.) praised the Voodoo for its characteristics that make it unique. No doubt by probably 1000:1 the LS engines are more popular, but there wasn't the same "ooooh, awwww" type reactions since those engines were similar to what came before. I would also agree that some reviews have to be taken with a grain of salt; I consider the majority of them for entertainment purposes only. But whether there is a recall or not doesn't take away or diminish or affect any of the characteristics of the engine that people love.

In relation to the oil cooler line recall, yes every one of those 8026 (I believe that number is accurate from M6G, might be a few off) had the recall performed. But considering there has only been a very, very, very few 350's that ever been reported to catch fire, some that we Know of to have nothing to do with this oil cooler line, don't you think saying it had such a "drastic fire hazard potential" would be exaggerating quite a bit? They recalled all of them because they couldn't be certain that the cars produced between a specific date range had the incorrectly crimped hose or not. I personally checked mine, and could see no indication that the crimp was done in an incorrect location. I had the recall performed of course regardless so that if anything else ever were to go wrong, I could not be blamed for being negligent in having the work done. I also rechecked the new lines and the crimping was in the exact same location. I'm fairly confident that the issue affected a fairly low number of units, and based on the verrrrryyy few incidents reported (that we know of) I believe its a fair statement to make. Now whether anything ever comes of the oil usage that we are seeing... that is certainly a more common issue, but whether we ever get word from Ford or not I have my doubts. Luckily mine has had 0 issues thus far and knock on wood it won't in the future.

At least you're consistent but in all seriousness though, if you couldn't afford at the time to buy say the next gen ZL1, would you honestly enjoy your car any less? Because something else out there is faster than you or has more capability, does it make your ZL1 or Hellcat for that matter any less special or cool to drive? Hell no! Way I look it is if you are happy with the level of performance and features your car delivers, what else is out there doesn't matter, because there will always be someone faster, someone with more money/mods/horsepower/driver skill, etc. If it makes you smile behind the wheel, nothing else matters in my mind

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by hotlap

The SS and ZL1 are also track cars. The 1LE option gives more. See the difference?

GT350! The most track focused Mustang* ever with an amazing low MSRP of $49,995*

* standard in poser trim

That was not one of Fords better ideas but the poser editions MSRP combined with the track part made great headlines.

The SS and ZL1 are not track cars, but they are trackable.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

The SS and ZL1 are not track cars, but they are trackable.

Yet here the SS is testing at the Nurburgring. The SS is fully track capable.

TOP 10 THINGS YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT THE 2016 CHEVROLET CAMARO
6. 455 horsepower for the Camaro – how amazing is that? Chevy says that the new Camaro SS delivers better lap times than the fifth-generation’s track-focused Camaro 1LE package. Official 0 to 60 mph time is still pending, but we’re guessing it will come in the low 4-second range.

So is the base ZL1 (7:29.60 Nurburgring time)
https://media.chevrolet.com/media/ca...%20Recent.html

Funny. You’re arguing that the 2016 GT350 wasn't a track car, but it could be optioned to be one.

[Spartan268]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

The SS and ZL1 are not track cars, but they are trackable.

So what exactly defines a "track" car?

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

The SS and ZL1 are not track cars, but they are trackable.

This they are capable track performers but the last true track Camaro was the Z28 a car purposely built to handle the rigors of track duty competition again and again and again, maybe the ZL1-1LE may fall into this as well. Much like the GT350R. Sure the ZL1 and 1LE can lay down significant lap times, can they do it all day, day after day, is the engine and entire drivetrain built to handle this abuse as its main venue. Tests show the 1LE capable of laying a better lap than the 5th Gen Z28, in a prolonged session how long until that Z28 overtakes the 1LE?

[joe944]

Arguing over whether or not a specific model of a performance car is meant to be driven on a track is silly. They are going to be driven on a track and tested, period.

M3's are very commonly tracked, and nobody is telling them they are stupid and should have bought a GTS.

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by J_MaherAMG

Like I mentioned, I am by no means saying the Voodoo is as or ever will be as popular as the LS or Hemi engines. Fact is it never will be, there are far more people out there in the North American market who are looking for project engines like you said, and who would rather a torque monster of an engine rather than a high revving engine like the Voodoo. By comment was purely directed at the way the automotive world (i.e reviewers, journalists, media, etc.) praised the Voodoo for its characteristics that make it unique. No doubt by probably 1000:1 the LS engines are more popular, but there wasn't the same "ooooh, awwww" type reactions since those engines were similar to what came before. I would also agree that some reviews have to be taken with a grain of salt; I consider the majority of them for entertainment purposes only. But whether there is a recall or not doesn't take away or diminish or affect any of the characteristics of the engine that people love.

In relation to the oil cooler line recall, yes every one of those 8026 (I believe that number is accurate from M6G, might be a few off) had the recall performed. But considering there has only been a very, very, very few 350's that ever been reported to catch fire, some that we Know of to have nothing to do with this oil cooler line, don't you think saying it had such a "drastic fire hazard potential" would be exaggerating quite a bit? They recalled all of them because they couldn't be certain that the cars produced between a specific date range had the incorrectly crimped hose or not. I personally checked mine, and could see no indication that the crimp was done in an incorrect location. I had the recall performed of course regardless so that if anything else ever were to go wrong, I could not be blamed for being negligent in having the work done. I also rechecked the new lines and the crimping was in the exact same location. I'm fairly confident that the issue affected a fairly low number of units, and based on the verrrrryyy few incidents reported (that we know of) I believe its a fair statement to make. Now whether anything ever comes of the oil usage that we are seeing... that is certainly a more common issue, but whether we ever get word from Ford or not I have my doubts. Luckily mine has had 0 issues thus far and knock on wood it won't in the future.

At least you're consistent but in all seriousness though, if you couldn't afford at the time to buy say the next gen ZL1, would you honestly enjoy your car any less? Because something else out there is faster than you or has more capability, does it make your ZL1 or Hellcat for that matter any less special or cool to drive? Hell no! Way I look it is if you are happy with the level of performance and features your car delivers, what else is out there doesn't matter, because there will always be someone faster, someone with more money/mods/horsepower/driver skill, etc. If it makes you smile behind the wheel, nothing else matters in my mind

Aside from the catching fire that's being discussed here, have you seen the 47 page 'blown engine' thread in the M6G GT350 section? There seems to be an uncomfortable amount of engine failures reported. I'm reading 41 according a post by the one of the members. I did not read through the entire thread but there's lots of talk about possible issues with oil pressure.

Being that you seem pretty knowledgeable about the Voodoo, do you have any insight on this?

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by J_MaherAMG

Like I mentioned, I am by no means saying the Voodoo is as or ever will be as popular as the LS or Hemi engines. Fact is it never will be, there are far more people out there in the North American market who are looking for project engines like you said, and who would rather a torque monster of an engine rather than a high revving engine like the Voodoo. By comment was purely directed at the way the automotive world (i.e reviewers, journalists, media, etc.) praised the Voodoo for its characteristics that make it unique. No doubt by probably 1000:1 the LS engines are more popular, but there wasn't the same "ooooh, awwww" type reactions since those engines were similar to what came before. I would also agree that some reviews have to be taken with a grain of salt; I consider the majority of them for entertainment purposes only. But whether there is a recall or not doesn't take away or diminish or affect any of the characteristics of the engine that people love.

I'm not sure if you were around back then but the LS1 engine got way more praise and "ooohhhh, aaahhhh" than the Voodoo gets. And that was way before social media made it easier to drool over stuff. These days the Chevy small block, Chrysler Hemi, and even the Ford flat head are still widely respected that they will appear on a best engines of all time list before the Voodoo does and that is if the Voodoo is even on the list at all. Even the Hellcat engine gets more praise and is more well known and respected. Would I agree that it is one of the more popular recent engines? Of course. Would I say that it is the most popular recent engine? Not at all. And for the record, I haven't seen any of this praise over the Voodoo like you're making it out to be. I'm not trying to insult you or the Shelby, but the only people I see giving it all the praise you're talking about are the Mustang crowd a magazine article from over a year ago. The fact that there are more people who have traded in GT350s for ZL1s and Z06s than the other way around tells me that those engines are not as special as people think they are. We have had several people come over here after trading in for the ZL1. The only times I've seen a Chevy getting traded in for a Shelby is when it's a SS Camaro or a Stingray vette.

Originally Posted by J_MaherAMG

In relation to the oil cooler line recall, yes every one of those 8026 (I believe that number is accurate from M6G, might be a few off) had the recall performed. But considering there has only been a very, very, very few 350's that ever been reported to catch fire, some that we Know of to have nothing to do with this oil cooler line, don't you think saying it had such a "drastic fire hazard potential" would be exaggerating quite a bit? They recalled all of them because they couldn't be certain that the cars produced between a specific date range had the incorrectly crimped hose or not. I personally checked mine, and could see no indication that the crimp was done in an incorrect location. I had the recall performed of course regardless so that if anything else ever were to go wrong, I could not be blamed for being negligent in having the work done. I also rechecked the new lines and the crimping was in the exact same location. I'm fairly confident that the issue affected a fairly low number of units, and based on the verrrrryyy few incidents reported (that we know of) I believe its a fair statement to make. Now whether anything ever comes of the oil usage that we are seeing... that is certainly a more common issue, but whether we ever get word from Ford or not I have my doubts. Luckily mine has had 0 issues thus far and knock on wood it won't in the future.

I do think it was a drastic issue considering that someone could have been killed. All cars have issues that require a recall at some point. But it seems that Ford recalls tend to involve fire hazards. I remember years ago a Mark VIII I had got recalled for something to do with the cruise control that could spontaneously cause a fire even if the engine was off and the car was sitting undisturbed. And they told people that until the recall was done on their car to not park it in a garage or near their house or trees or anything that could cause an intense fire. Any time something happens on the level of fires, loss of life, or extensive loss of property, I consider that to be drastic. And again, I'm not knocking them, I'm just stating what has happened in the past and how I view it.

For the record, that guy's car burst into flames at 120 MPH. He is lucky to be alive. If that isn't drastic then I don't know what is.

Originally Posted by J_MaherAMG

At least you're consistent but in all seriousness though, if you couldn't afford at the time to buy say the next gen ZL1, would you honestly enjoy your car any less? Because something else out there is faster than you or has more capability, does it make your ZL1 or Hellcat for that matter any less special or cool to drive? Hell no! Way I look it is if you are happy with the level of performance and features your car delivers, what else is out there doesn't matter, because there will always be someone faster, someone with more money/mods/horsepower/driver skill, etc. If it makes you smile behind the wheel, nothing else matters in my mind

I would love my car for being one of the greatest performance cars of it's time in it's price range if not THE greatest. Considering that no car in the same price range can match the ZL1's performance in any category stock for stock and it is cheaper than it's competitors I would have to say that it IS the greatest right now. But I could be biased, lol.

But I digress. I would enjoy it for what it is. Just like I would enjoy an 87 IROC, a 95 Z28, an 02 Trans Am, a 97 Mark VIII, a 93 Cobra, a 96 Cobra, an 04 Termi, a 5th Gen SS, an 86 Vette, and so on. But from a performance perspective, now that I am used to the performance that these cars offer, I would not feel as thrilled as I would in a newer one if it offered more performance. My 2010 2SS/RS was an absolute thrill the first time I drove it and I still remember thinking that bone stock that car would be all I ever needed. I was wrong. When I got it to FBO I still enjoyed it even tho I got used to it. But knowing there were more powerful cars out there made me desire to have that thrill like I did the first time in the SS. And the first drive in my ZL1 gave me that. And then the first drive in a Hellcat did it again. Eventually I'll need something more. And I buy these cars for the performance mainly. So if I could not afford a new ZL1 or got stuck with mine then I would have to start modding it to keep it exciting. I would love it just the same. But I would want more performance and I would want the newer toy out there.

[BlaqWhole]

In Ford's defense tho, it seems that they were not trying to make a track car out of the PP2. It seems that they wanted to make a car that could handle the track well while coming in cheaper than the standard GT350 and having enough of them available that there wouldn't be any markups. So in a way, it might really be a success. If it does hang with the SS 1LE even for 1 or 2 laps, then some aftermarket coolers would legit give you GT350 level performance. Or close to it, very close to it...even if it won't be close in the quarter mile. Think about it. Some people wanted Shelby performance without all the hoopla surrounding it. Ford found a way to deliver that. Most of these people don't care to go to the track but they do want to hit corners while DDing or on the weekends with their friends on twisty roads and such. For those people this is a win.

Here's another thought. Take a GT PP2, add in coolers, throw in a blower, leave the rest of it alone...would it be able to hang with (or beat) a standard manual trans ZL1 on a track? I doubt it'll corner on the same level. But would it have enough muscle to overpower the ZL1 enough in the straights to come out ahead? Would it be able to beat a GT350R? It might be worthwhile for some to buy one of these cars used (so as to limit the depreciation hit) and then throw on a blower and the coolers. You could probably get it even close to Shelby Super Snake performance for a much cheaper price.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by Spartan268

So what exactly defines a "track" car?

It’s hard to nail down but I would lean toward cars built with street manners and creature comforts having been sacrificed in the name of maximizing track performance. The Z28, ZL1LE, Z06-07, 350R would fall into my definition. The SS and ZL1 to me are modern muscle cars that are track capable.