[BlaqWhole]

I noticed the 2019 MY Bullitts are already out. I guess Ford is trying to get ahead of Dodge since the HC will be dropping price to $58K, lol!!

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Unfortunately they still can't sell the car so I am not sure how special it is. Special in performance but. not the car overall? Also how special is it presently the GT A10 is faster, and the GTPP2 is likely very close on the track. The GT pulls better up top.

By your logic the Corvette is Chevy’s least special cars. It’s volume is near the bottom for Chevy and Camaro outsold it 2.4 to 1 this quarter.

Gen6_1Le was specifically referring to performance. Maybe you should let Chevy worry about selling the Camaro and do us a favor and concentrate on keeping your Mustang off the sidewalk

2018 CHEVROLET CAMARO SS 1LE VS. 2018 FORD MUSTANG GT PERFORMANCE PACK

When I asked our handling guru Kim Reynolds what he thought about the two cars after lapping them, he looked first at the Camaro then disparagingly glanced at the Mustang and said, “There’s about 4,000 years of evolution separating the two.”

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/chev...ck-comparison/

Car and Driver 10Best three consecutive years

Chevrolet Camaro V-6 / SS / ZL1 Coupes
...Camaro will demolish your preconceptions, one corner at a time.

...About that chassis. It’s one of the best in the world, with the kind of preternaturally intuitive steering, faultless brakes, and overall balance you’d expect from a Porsche.

...The ZL1 is a supercar that just happens to look like a Camaro.

Camaros are among the most sophisticated driver’s cars in the world. And three consecutive years on the 10Best Cars list proves that this Chevy isn’t just great at attacking a corner, it has also turned one.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...-coupes-page-4

[Prodogs]

Nice!!!

Originally Posted by hotlap

By your logic the Corvette is Chevy’s least special cars. It’s volume is near the bottom for Chevy and Camaro outsold it 2.4 to 1 this quarter.

Gen6_1Le was specifically referring to performance. Maybe you should let Chevy worry about selling the Camaro and do us a favor and concentrate on keeping your Mustang off the sidewalk
Car and Driver 10Best three consecutive years

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by SSport16

The Camaro is unfortunately not going to generate high sales, especially in the 6th gen, which is real close to the Stingray (SS of course). It is more of an enthusiast purchase, not going to get too many people stopping by a dealer to look at sedans and CUVs, saying hey I want a Camaro instead. The '19 refresh is going to hurt sales in my opinion, maybe a reason to go revolutionary in the 7th gen in GM/Chevy's minds...who knows!

I agree.

GM did something AMAZING again with the SS 1LE. The last time I have said that about GM was with the C5 Z06, which was so far ahead of its time and hitting A LOT above its weight class, yet not at an insane price.

The Camaro (especially the 1LE variant) is an enthusiast car, and has that same "special sauce" as the C5 Z06 had.

One of the issues though and will continue to worsen as time goes on is that as the younger generations grow up, they just don't car about cars the way Americans used to.

I live in the Bay Area and most here would rather take Uber everywhere and not have a car at all. Those that do want a car, want something like a Tesla that will drive for you. Times are a changing and getting away from that American way of loving the automobile. As each generation comes, this trend will continue.

[rocket403]

There are many people that are looking for a GM car that is RWD platform that can do more than the Camaro can provide, GM has nothing to offer, these people have left GM and will go to whatever manufacture will provide them. If GM was to offer a Chevelle or Monte right now it would outsell the small cramped Camaro unless it looked like the last GTO, it may take some people away from the Camaro but more would come from the Dodge twins. GM has been out of this market for these cars since 1988 and that is a market that still exists as Dodge has proven many people what a real muscle car not a cramped sports car.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Gen6_1Le

Who cares , that smaller amount of cars that are sold are better performance dollar for dollar . That goes back to when the 5th gen SS 1LE spanked the Boss 302 Laguna Seca edition on Laguna Seca costing $15k less ,stickers and emblems couldn't save the Boss . Ford and Dodge will gladly take all your money and deliver almost as good and very close to performance of a Camaro .

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Lets look at that 5th Gen comparison heck we will even toss the 6th Gen 1LE into the mix. First off both Gen 1LEs will spank the Boss on the track but that is it, street and strip the Boss will take care of the 5th Gen handily and will run with the 6th Gen 1LE. Review data not mine.

Road & Track
"The raucous Mustang installs itself in your subconscious with the viciousness of a drug addiction. Despite knowing there’s an objectively better alternative with a Chevy badge, we are lured back to the Boss again and again. Its responsive chassis, competent handling, and brawny engine strike us in a psychological weak spot where emotions overrule sensibilities. We’d never question someone for making the rational choice of a Camaro SS 1LE, but reason be damned, the Boss 302 is the car we want"

Now lets look at what the market thinks of these cars. KBB data, example 10,000 miles, high values.

2013 Boss - $33,402
2013 1LE - $25,120
2017 1LE - $35,103

Interesting data to say the least. 5th Gen values have tanked hard so for all it's track ability nobody seems to care. The 6th Gen may even be worse. The Boss is now nearly 6-yro yet has almost the same value as a 1-yro 1LE, both have similar MSRPs. So what car is truely special?

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

People are wishing the Camaro was the jack of all trades it wasn't meant to be.

Also, any car can be a DD. It doesn't have to fit a certain mold. Miatas are daily driven as well as Vettes. What about a Smart car? Can it qualify? After all, it only fits two and can barely carry a lunchbox.

The Camaro is a perfectly fine DD for many including myself.

I'll let Chevy worry about sales.

I am not saying the Camaro needs to be a jack of all trades. I simply wish it had slightly more room. I have said it a bunch. I am an active person in the summer, I play golf I splay softball. When I had my mustang I could keep my bat bag and my golf clubs in my trunk all summer, and still pick up people on the way to the field if I had to and have room for their stuff. Was it tight yeah but is was doable. My point is I have been able to DD a car like this before, with some of the shortcomings in space I can't even consider the Camaro if I was shopping. When your trunk is smaller than your competitors convertible trunk IMO, that is a problem that should be addressed in Gen 7.

Also Corvette's have more cargo room than a Camaro IIRC and if you are buying a straight up 2 seat car you know the limitations. In a car like the Camaro I would expect it to be somewhat close to Mustang

[Bongos2U]

Here is a youtube video from early 2016. Ecoboost Mustang vs. V6 Camaro. This is probably the most un-biased comparison review I have seen. If you have seen this before, it is worth watching again. If you haven't seen this before...Enjoy...

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by rocket403

There are many people that are looking for a GM car that is RWD platform that can do more than the Camaro can provide, GM has nothing to offer, these people have left GM and will go to whatever manufacture will provide them. If GM was to offer a Chevelle or Monte right now it would outsell the small cramped Camaro unless it looked like the last GTO, it may take some people away from the Camaro but more would come from the Dodge twins. GM has been out of this market for these cars since 1988 and that is a market that still exists as Dodge has proven many people what a real muscle car not a cramped sports car.

I'm sorry but in the price range of the Camaro that car you're talking about doesn't exist. At the price of a ZL1, there is nothing that can provide what it can provide. At $10K, $20K, and $30K more than the price of a ZL1 the only thing that can beat it is a Z06. It took drastic changes for the Mustang GT to compete with the SS. And the EB Mustang is no match for the cheaper Camaros. SO what exactly do you mean when you say that people are looking for a RWD car that do more than the Camaro can provide? None of the competition is even close.

Originally Posted by newmoon

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lets look at that 5th Gen comparison heck we will even toss the 6th Gen 1LE into the mix. First off both Gen 1LEs will spank the Boss on the track but that is it, street and strip the Boss will take care of the 5th Gen handily and will run with the 6th Gen 1LE. Review data not mine.

Road & Track
"The raucous Mustang installs itself in your subconscious with the viciousness of a drug addiction. Despite knowing there’s an objectively better alternative with a Chevy badge, we are lured back to the Boss again and again. Its responsive chassis, competent handling, and brawny engine strike us in a psychological weak spot where emotions overrule sensibilities. We’d never question someone for making the rational choice of a Camaro SS 1LE, but reason be damned, the Boss 302 is the car we want"

Now lets look at what the market thinks of these cars. KBB data, example 10,000 miles, high values.

2013 Boss - $33,402
2013 1LE - $25,120
2017 1LE - $35,103

Interesting data to say the least. 5th Gen values have tanked hard so for all it's track ability nobody seems to care. The 6th Gen may even be worse. The Boss is now nearly 6-yro yet has almost the same value as a 1-yro 1LE, both have similar MSRPs. So what car is truely special?

That depends on the person buying the car. I'd take a 5th Gen ZL1 over a Boss 302 any day. The S197 Mustangs offer nothing that impresses me. Well with exception of the GT500. And even then it doesn't have options that I consider essential. So I would be hesitant to buy one of those too. As far as MT, they're just people with an opinion who like to say things as if the masses agree with them. Yet I've never seen them take a poll on any of their subjective statements. I could take their entire statement about the Boss, replace it with the Camaro, then talk about how everyone agrees with me, and that along with a buck would get you a candy bar.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I'm sorry but in the price range of the Camaro that car you're talking about doesn't exist. At the price of a ZL1, there is nothing that can provide what it can provide. At $10K, $20K, and $30K more than the price of a ZL1 the only thing that can beat it is a Z06. It took drastic changes for the Mustang GT to compete with the SS. And the EB Mustang is no match for the cheaper Camaros. SO what exactly do you mean when you say that people are looking for a RWD car that do more than the Camaro can provide? None of the competition is even close.

I don't think he was talking performance wise.

[rocket403]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I'm sorry but in the price range of the Camaro that car you're talking about doesn't exist. At the price of a ZL1, there is nothing that can provide what it can provide. At $10K, $20K, and $30K more than the price of a ZL1 the only thing that can beat it is a Z06. It took drastic changes for the Mustang GT to compete with the SS. And the EB Mustang is no match for the cheaper Camaros. SO what exactly do you mean when you say that people are looking for a RWD car that do more than the Camaro can provide? None of the competition is even close.

GM could make a Chevelle/Monte SS that has the engine options that the Camaro has, make it the size of the Challenger, seats 4 to 5 people has decent track stats. A car that has trunk space for a cooler and golf clubs, this would sell more than the Camaro as it is not always about how fast you can go on a road course.

https://www.talkofweb.com/2018-chevrolet-chevelle-ss/

[Vtor_ZL1]

Chevelle.. so a less beaky camaro.. got it.

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by newmoon

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lets look at that 5th Gen comparison heck we will even toss the 6th Gen 1LE into the mix. First off both Gen 1LEs will spank the Boss on the track but that is it, street and strip the Boss will take care of the 5th Gen handily and will run with the 6th Gen 1LE. Review data not mine.

Road & Track
"The raucous Mustang installs itself in your subconscious with the viciousness of a drug addiction. Despite knowing there’s an objectively better alternative with a Chevy badge, we are lured back to the Boss again and again. Its responsive chassis, competent handling, and brawny engine strike us in a psychological weak spot where emotions overrule sensibilities. We’d never question someone for making the rational choice of a Camaro SS 1LE, but reason be damned, the Boss 302 is the car we want"

Now lets look at what the market thinks of these cars. KBB data, example 10,000 miles, high values.

2013 Boss - $33,402
2013 1LE - $25,120
2017 1LE - $35,103

Interesting data to say the least. 5th Gen values have tanked hard so for all it's track ability nobody seems to care. The 6th Gen may even be worse. The Boss is now nearly 6-yro yet has almost the same value as a 1-yro 1LE, both have similar MSRPs. So what car is truely special?

All that shows is that Mustang buyers are used to paying more money knowing they are getting less performance and someone picking up a 2013 1LE knowing how much better a track car it is then the Boss for a lot less , thats special .

[Gen6_1Le]

Originally Posted by rocket403

There are many people that are looking for a GM car that is RWD platform that can do more than the Camaro can provide, GM has nothing to offer, these people have left GM and will go to whatever manufacture will provide them. If GM was to offer a Chevelle or Monte right now it would outsell the small cramped Camaro unless it looked like the last GTO, it may take some people away from the Camaro but more would come from the Dodge twins. GM has been out of this market for these cars since 1988 and that is a market that still exists as Dodge has proven many people what a real muscle car not a cramped sports car.

GM don't need a Chevelle or Monte Carlo now , people are buying CUVs and SUVs that need more room with kids ,just don't think there is a big enough market . Forget thinking that Camaro is a muscle car or wanting it to be , they past that stage decades ago. Dodge can keep selling that crappy old platform to buyers all they want .Camaro now is a true world class car , more to a car then just going straight.