[JamesNoBrakes]

Because turns.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by Blackdevil77

The cheapest redeye was said to be around 70k. With that being said.... C'MON GM!!!! As much as many don't like to admit it, GM is always playing catch up, not the other way around. The 5th gen ZL1 was the slowest between the Hellcat and the 2013/2014 GT500. Then GM comes out with the 6th gen that MATCHES their acceleration performance, now Dodge has a nearly 800 hp Challenger coming out and Ford is coming out with a Shelby that will be north of 700 hp. Both of which will out-accelerate the ZL1. Where the ZL1 will probably come out on top is handling (obviously against the Dodge) but we still don't know what's in store for the 2019/2020 GT500. It's handling may very well be comparable to the ZL1.

GM, you need to put an LT5 in the ZL1 to level the playing field. Will you? Probably not....

What? GM is always playing catch up? No way pal. The ZL1 arrived in 2012 with 580 HP, available auto trans, fully optioned, and IRS against the 550 HP manual trans only GT500. Ford had to increase the displacement from 5.4 liters to 5.8, bump up the compression ratio, throw on a bigger blower, and bump up the boost to get the 13-14 GT500 to where it was. And even then it had no options like the ZL1 had. For the 6th Gen ZL1, Ford nor Dodge had anything that could beat it in anything stock for stock despite the GT350R and Hellcat both being more expensive. The only thing they had that could actually beat a ZL1 was the Ford GT ($450K MSRP) and the Viper (over $100K). So how are we playing catch up. We don't even know if the Redeye or GT500 will actually beat the ZL1. So how is it that we have been playing catch up when we've had the fastest cars for years now?

[Blackdevil77]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

What? GM is always playing catch up? No way pal. The ZL1 arrived in 2012 with 580 HP, available auto trans, fully optioned, and IRS against the 550 HP manual trans only GT500. Ford had to increase the displacement from 5.4 liters to 5.8, bump up the compression ratio, throw on a bigger blower, and bump up the boost to get the 13-14 GT500 to where it was. And even then it had no options like the ZL1 had. For the 6th Gen ZL1, Ford nor Dodge had anything that could beat it in anything stock for stock despite the GT350R and Hellcat both being more expensive. The only thing they had that could actually beat a ZL1 was the Ford GT ($450K MSRP) and the Viper (over $100K). So how are we playing catch up. We don't even know if the Redeye or GT500 will actually beat the ZL1. So how is it that we have been playing catch up when we've had the fastest cars for years now?

The 2012 ZL1 was set out to compete against the 2012 GT500. Then the 2013 GT500 came out with the monstrous 662 hp engine. Dodge wasn't even in the game until the Hellcat. It seems as though the competition always makes the giant hp leap, then GM tries to catch it after the fact. 2012 GT500 with 550 hp, then comes the ZL1 with 580 hp. Then comes the 2013 GT500 with 662 hp, then in 2015 Dodge shows up to the party with 707 hp, and GM has to make due with their relatively puny 580 hp until 2017 when the 6th gen ZL1 came out, which now barely matches the output of a car Ford put out in 2013, and is still shy of what Dodge put out in 2015. Why not one up the competition instead of match or try to match what they've already had out for years? Now with the current line up, the ZL1 is competitive with the Hellcat in a straight line, Ford has been absent an unusually long time ever since Dodge entered the game with their monster because they want to try and come out on top again, which they may, and Dodge preemptively released the "Redeye" to try and fend off whatever Ford comes out with. And GM guys are left with the 650 hp ZL1 for years while the competition currently out with have 797 hp, and whatever crazy number Fords answer has. We'll have to wait for the 7th gen Camaro to match what the competition has, and by then the competition will be just about ready to drop more bombs.

That's what I mean by playing catch up. At least in the horsepower wars/department anyway. I do believe GM is ahead of the competition when it comes to chassis and brakes. Even the older 5th gen Camaro was ahead of Dodge in the chassis and handling department. I can't see the competition (which will mainly be Ford in this category) besting what GM did with the alpha platform.

I'm not bashing, I'm just stating what I noticed. I'd LOVE for GM to shut everyone up by dropping an LT5 in the ZL1. Then they'll stomp out the competition in every category. Except in interior room perhaps, but whatever lol.

[Larrio Andretti]

Are you forgetting about the 2017/2018 COPO?

[big dave]

Originally Posted by Larrio Andretti

Are you forgetting about the 2017/2018 COPO?

The Copo Camaros are not street legal cars.

[Blackdevil77]

Originally Posted by Larrio Andretti

Are you forgetting about the 2017/2018 COPO?

Nope but those aren't street legal

[18Hotwheels-SS]

I just traded in my 2017 Challenger Hellcat for a Hot Wheels 2SS. The Hellcat was a wild ride, by this i mean hang on in the curves because the car cant handle it and neither can the driver. I was on my way to work on I-4 outside of Orlando at about 4 am, I had a guy in a BMW wanting to screw with me, we were in a slight curve when I floored it and went sideways with traction on at 89 MPH. I traded the Hellcat in because of the rising insurance costs and the miles I drive everyday. The 2SS will take a Hellcat because it can handle so much better and not brake loose anytime you want to have fun. With 797 HP they just made a car that will kill you before you have time to blink. To me that's not a fun ride. I love driving the 2SS. It does what i ask it to when ever I ask. Its a blast. I respect the Hellcat for what it has brought to the table in the muscle car world but the car is to dangerous to have fun. I am 56 years old and i dont have to have the most HP on the street, i just want to have fun. The 2SS is fun. 797HP will take the fun out of the 4 AM I-4 drive. Just my opinion.

[motorhead]

I love all three offerings coming from Dodge. I believe Im different than most here. I love the old school feel you get with the Challenger. The Scat pack is the bargin of the century. They aren't overall better than the ZL1, but they have that scare the hell out of you feel that a car should have. The fellow on here that has one of each has it right. They both have their own type of enjoyment. I love the widebody look, but a ZL1 is in my future to add to my Hellcat.

[Larrio Andretti]

Technicality.... most of the cars that we raced on Deer Park Ave. back in the day were trailered up there anyway. I say it still counts!

[big dave]

I still think that as long as the Vette is in the same stable as the Camaro, the ZL1 will continue to be held back from surpassing the power of the top tier Vette. I was shocked that they actually matched the power of the Z06.

[Intimidator]

To me it really doesn't matter what anyone offers except the platform the car is built on and the handling characteristics.
There are very few of us who leave a motor stock...the last thing most of us will ever touch is the chassis.
Since GM did such a fantastic job with the chassis and 10 speed, then gave up HD parts that handle Big HP, all we have to do is boost HP levels to fit our needs.
My Z will be headed to Weapon-X soon, my need is 1000 HP...just to say I have it! Lol

[big dave]

Originally Posted by Intimidator

To me it really doesn't matter what anyone offers except the platform the car is built on and the handling characteristics.
There are very few of us who leave a motor stock...the last thing most of us will ever touch is the chassis.
Since GM did such a fantastic job with the chassis and 10 speed, then gave up HD parts that handle Big HP, all we have to do is boost HP levels to fit our needs.
My Z will be headed to Weapon-X soon, my need is 1000 HP...just to say I have it! Lol

That's very true, but for the ones who prefer to leave well enough alone until the warranty is up, it would be great having the highest possible hp a chassis can handle as a starting point.

I do think that things are getting a bit out of hand now, there's only so much "restraining" a computer can do to keep us safe.

[Gunkk]

Originally Posted by big dave

I do think that things are getting a bit out of hand now, there's only so much "restraining" a computer can do to keep us safe.

Talk to the M6 Z crowd about launching and they'll tell you GM is plenty capable of restraining when they want to.

[Fred 6528]

It brings back “Run what you brung and hope you brung enough”