[ULTRAZLS1]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

Come on with the Snake already. A10. 800 plus HP. With tuning and pulley/intake upgrades. 900 hp easy. OMG. Okay. I need to stop.

They are trying to get 650 rwhp to stick with the production model according to Watson racing in Detroit a couple weeks ago.

I’m guessing it’s going to be around 750 hp if he was accurate with his assessment

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by ULTRAZLS1

They are trying to get 650 rwhp to stick with the production model according to Watson racing in Detroit a couple weeks ago.

I’m guessing it’s going to be around 750 hp if he was accurate with his assessment

That sounds about right for a blown 5.2 with a 2.X blower..

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by Wild One

Woo Hoo!!!
Hope it doesn’t make axle snapping noise....
It will definitely make a lot of exhaust noise tho.....

True, got to be able to hold together. That's why I love the Zl1 platform. I'm about to crank out 1000-1100 hp with no drive train upgrades. Of course, I roll race, so there is less stress than launching from a dig so who knows if a Zl1 will hold. But, I'm looking for a 2nd car to have in my garage as a daily and I'm actually looking at Fords. The horror!!!!!!

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

If you haven't driven a car with a high redline and late onset power delivery, you(not speaking directly to you, I mean in general) are missing out and should treat yourself to the experience.

I like instant power down low. High revving engines just never appealed to me. It's not to say I wouldn't enjoy driving one. It's just not my thing.

When I hit the gas, the LT1 delivers like no other. Power is almost instant, and there's rarely a need to take it all the way. Then there's that rumble. It would take a lot of convincing for me to trade that for an engine that needs to rev higher.

If I had to trade up, I'd be for something like the LT4.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

I like instant power down low. High revving engines just never appealed to me. It's not to say I wouldn't enjoy driving one. It's just not my thing.

When I hit the gas, the LT1 delivers like no other. Power is almost instant, and there's rarely a need to take it all the way. Then there's that rumble. It would take a lot of convincing for me to trade that for an engine that needs to rev higher.

If I had to trade up, I'd be for something like the LT4.

Why settle on an LT1 or LT4? Why not get a turbo diesel to get even more enjoyment?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

Why settle on an LT1 or LT4? Why not get a turbo diesel to get even more enjoyment?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

If GM made a performance car with one? Sure.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I have to disagree. I had my 15 GT tuned to rev past 7500 RPMs. It was fun un that car only because there was no power down low and the only time it felt fast was when revving it high. It is placebo. If you could feel the Mustang's 4000 RPM pull except from, let's say, 2500 RPMs, then you wouldn't be impressed with the Mustang. For example, My GT pulled hard from 4000-7500 RPMs. My SS pulled hard from 2000-6500 RPMs. That means I had 3500 RPMs of power in my GT vs 4500 RPMs of power in my SS. That made my SS feel like it actually had more pull since it was pulling hard for much longer. Same with my current cars. My HC redline is at like 5700 RPMs and I think it actually tops out at 6250 RPMs. Yet it pulls soo hard that you'd think you're revving much higher. I swear it was going crazy to the point where I had to look down twice to make sure I wasn't gonna hit the rev limiter. It is all just a placebo in the Mustang. Most of that feel is because although it is a 7500+ total RPM, the first 4000 is just blah but you're still moving so it feels like it is much more when it isn't. Sorry but that is the best way I can describe it.

I am assuming you do not feel the high revving engine characteristics are exciting, and my opinion that they are is what you are disagreeing with. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, I didn't make any comparisons as to what is better etc, so I think that is what you meant by your post and is how I will attempt to reply.

I think I would agree with you on your assessment of the Coyote, one because you actually owned one and would know, and two because I never really enjoyed the GT's I test drove. I thought my experience was ruined due to the MT82, but as we all know there is more to the experience that just the transmission so maybe the engine didnt have enough joy to compensate the crap transmission.

I would not say one is better than the other, because they are so different that they are almost opposites in how and when they deliver power and excitement. My LS3 was very heavily modded, basically everything but FI, and while I loved it......the thrill was over around 6500 RPMs. To me, the thrill of the down low grunt of the LS/LT motors is extremely exciting, and perfect for city driving as all the power and torque is usable around town. I also wonder if my current love of the M3 is partly due to how different and new the feeling is compared to my LS3.

I am not really sure tbh, and need to extend my experience I think. All I know is, I have owned my M3 for as long as my LS3 1LE, and would never go back, but that is mostly because my experience is in the Gen 5 platform I think.

If I could justify it financially, I would love to have a manual 1LE or ZL1, AND an E90 M3w/DCT so I had a practical 4 door with the high revving characteristics of the S65 and a fun torque monster with an amazing Tremec 6 speed manual. That to me, would be the perfect compliment and a garage that would never need upgrading.

It really is sad the GT350 has SO many issues, but not just issues but catastrophic issues costing 10's of thousands of dollars to deal with out of warranty. I say that because I think they are beautiful, sound amazing, have a great transmission and suspension set-up and what I assume is a world class high revving engine experience.

I am not sure if I have really sad much of anything except give my opinion, so back to our regularly schedule program hahaha.

[whiteboyblues2001]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

I am assuming you do not feel the high revving engine characteristics are exciting, and my opinion that they are is what you are disagreeing with. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, I didn't make any comparisons as to what is better etc, so I think that is what you meant by your post and is how I will attempt to reply.

I think I would agree with you on your assessment of the Coyote, one because you actually owned one and would know, and two because I never really enjoyed the GT's I test drove. I thought my experience was ruined due to the MT82, but as we all know there is more to the experience that just the transmission so maybe the engine didnt have enough joy to compensate the crap transmission.

I would not say one is better than the other, because they are so different that they are almost opposites in how and when they deliver power and excitement. My LS3 was very heavily modded, basically everything but FI, and while I loved it......the thrill was over around 6500 RPMs. To me, the thrill of the down low grunt of the LS/LT motors is extremely exciting, and perfect for city driving as all the power and torque is usable around town. I also wonder if my current love of the M3 is partly due to how different and new the feeling is compared to my LS3.

I am not really sure tbh, and need to extend my experience I think. All I know is, I have owned my M3 for as long as my LS3 1LE, and would never go back, but that is mostly because my experience is in the Gen 5 platform I think.

If I could justify it financially, I would love to have a manual 1LE or ZL1, AND an E90 M3w/DCT so I had a practical 4 door with the high revving characteristics of the S65 and a fun torque monster with an amazing Tremec 6 speed manual. That to me, would be the perfect compliment and a garage that would never need upgrading.

It really is sad the GT350 has SO many issues, but not just issues but catastrophic issues costing 10's of thousands of dollars to deal with out of warranty. I say that because I think they are beautiful, sound amazing, have a great transmission and suspension set-up and what I assume is a world class high revving engine experience.

I am not sure if I have really sad much of anything except give my opinion, so back to our regularly schedule program hahaha.

Here is my personal experience/opinion on this subject:

When I was young, before I could drive (about 14), one of my best friends bought a YZ100 two-stroke dirt bike. We rode the crap out of that thing, and it was fun. It was a nice light bike, but it didn't produce even a hair of power until you make it scream like crazy. All the power was up top. So, in order to drive it, the throttle was pretty much useless. You either had it fully open or fully closed, and you drove the thing using the clutch, and with gear changes. And by clutch, I mean, if you were in too high a gear, you could just feather the clutch (pull the clutch to allow the RPM's to climb sky high, then slowly release and engage that power). If you did this, it would go pretty fast. But, it was a LOT of work. It was constant gear changes, and clutch modulation. The throttle could have just as well been an on/off switch.

But then a few years later, he bought a 4-stroke 250 enduro bike. That thing had power throughout the RPM range, and now, all of a sudden, you could drive using the throttle. It was an amazing wake-up. It felt SOOOO much more powerful than the YZ. Sure, gear changes helped, and it did produce more power up top, but you could control things with just the flick of the wrist. It was an amazing difference. All of a sudden it felt so easy to go fast. On the YZ100, you had to work your a$$ off to get the thing to go, but the enduro could go without much effort. I loved that.

To me, the YZ100 was like a riding a donkey. You had to kick it and beat it, and threaten it's life just to get it to go, and when you did, the legs were going like mad, a million miles an hour, just to get up to speed. The enduro was like a thoroughbred race horse. It could go fast without all the fuss. It had a nice long stride, and so much power, and took very little coaxing to get it to go fast. It WANTED to go.

I guess those experiences just followed through to my preference here in this discussion. If I have to downshift, and wait for the engine to get to the sweet spot, you've already lost me. I feel like I am doing all the work, not the car.

I love how with this LT1, I can go to pass someone on the highway, and there is no need to downshift. I just control it with the throttle, and the car just leaps forward like a thoroughbred race horse without breaking a sweat. I'm not talking about lugging the engine either. You don't need much throttle at all. It just goes. And on the track, there is power everywhere. Sure, you will be a bit faster keeping things near where the engine produces peak power, but if you don't, the car still goes amazingly fast. You shift when you want to, not when you HAVE to. It's hard to make a mistake, because the wide power band is very forgiving.

I guess I just like a riding the race horse better than the donkey.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

I am assuming you do not feel the high revving engine characteristics are exciting, and my opinion that they are is what you are disagreeing with. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, I didn't make any comparisons as to what is better etc, so I think that is what you meant by your post and is how I will attempt to reply.

I think I would agree with you on your assessment of the Coyote, one because you actually owned one and would know, and two because I never really enjoyed the GT's I test drove. I thought my experience was ruined due to the MT82, but as we all know there is more to the experience that just the transmission so maybe the engine didnt have enough joy to compensate the crap transmission.

I would not say one is better than the other, because they are so different that they are almost opposites in how and when they deliver power and excitement. My LS3 was very heavily modded, basically everything but FI, and while I loved it......the thrill was over around 6500 RPMs. To me, the thrill of the down low grunt of the LS/LT motors is extremely exciting, and perfect for city driving as all the power and torque is usable around town. I also wonder if my current love of the M3 is partly due to how different and new the feeling is compared to my LS3.

I am not really sure tbh, and need to extend my experience I think. All I know is, I have owned my M3 for as long as my LS3 1LE, and would never go back, but that is mostly because my experience is in the Gen 5 platform I think.

If I could justify it financially, I would love to have a manual 1LE or ZL1, AND an E90 M3w/DCT so I had a practical 4 door with the high revving characteristics of the S65 and a fun torque monster with an amazing Tremec 6 speed manual. That to me, would be the perfect compliment and a garage that would never need upgrading.

It really is sad the GT350 has SO many issues, but not just issues but catastrophic issues costing 10's of thousands of dollars to deal with out of warranty. I say that because I think they are beautiful, sound amazing, have a great transmission and suspension set-up and what I assume is a world class high revving engine experience.

I am not sure if I have really sad much of anything except give my opinion, so back to our regularly schedule program hahaha.

I personally like the M3s and am a fan of the M4s. I would love to have one of those. I wouldn't disagree with anything you say about the M cars as I've never owned one nor been in one. I do know they are quite fast tho.

Anyway, I actually misread or misunderstood your post so there really was no reason for me to disagree with you since you didn't say anything for me to disagree with, lol! My apologies. I just soo often hear people talk about the characteristics of the higher revving engines compared to the pushrod engines that I thought you were doing that also. Anyway, yea the Coyote engines are fun when you get them into their power. But people mistakenly think that it has more RPM...which it does but how much of that is usable or how much of that is making power. Kinda like the comments made about the view in the Camaro. How much view do you actually need? Sure the Mustang has more and the Camaro has less...but it is just placebo. A lot of things involving cars are placebo. But again, that wasn't even what you were saying and I kinda jumped to conclusions, lol!!

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

Here is my personal experience/opinion on this subject:

When I was young, before I could drive (about 14), one of my best friends bought a YZ100 two-stroke dirt bike. We rode the crap out of that thing, and it was fun. It was a nice light bike, but it didn't produce even a hair of power until you make it scream like crazy. All the power was up top. So, in order to drive it, the throttle was pretty much useless. You either had it fully open or fully closed, and you drove the thing using the clutch, and with gear changes. And by clutch, I mean, if you were in too high a gear, you could just feather the clutch (pull the clutch to allow the RPM's to climb sky high, then slowly release and engage that power). If you did this, it would go pretty fast. But, it was a LOT of work. It was constant gear changes, and clutch modulation. The throttle could have just as well been an on/off switch.

But then a few years later, he bought a 4-stroke 250 enduro bike. That thing had power throughout the RPM range, and now, all of a sudden, you could drive using the throttle. It was an amazing wake-up. It felt SOOOO much more powerful than the YZ. Sure, gear changes helped, and it did produce more power up top, but you could control things with just the flick of the wrist. It was an amazing difference. All of a sudden it felt so easy to go fast. On the YZ100, you had to work your a$$ off to get the thing to go, but the enduro could go without much effort. I loved that.

To me, the YZ100 was like a riding a donkey. You had to kick it and beat it, and threaten it's life just to get it to go, and when you did, the legs were going like mad, a million miles an hour, just to get up to speed. The enduro was like a thoroughbred race horse. It could go fast without all the fuss. It had a nice long stride, and so much power, and took very little coaxing to get it to go fast. It WANTED to go.

I guess those experiences just followed through to my preference here in this discussion. If I have to downshift, and wait for the engine to get to the sweet spot, you've already lost me. I feel like I am doing all the work, not the car.

I love how with this LT1, I can go to pass someone on the highway, and there is no need to downshift. I just control it with the throttle, and the car just leaps forward like a thoroughbred race horse without breaking a sweat. I'm not talking about lugging the engine either. You don't need much throttle at all. It just goes. And on the track, there is power everywhere. Sure, you will be a bit faster keeping things near where the engine produces peak power, but if you don't, the car still goes amazingly fast. You shift when you want to, not when you HAVE to. It's hard to make a mistake, because the wide power band is very forgiving.

I guess I just like a riding the race horse better than the donkey.

For the 1 year that I had both cars at the same time (15 GT and 10 SS) I noticed that in 6th gear the feel was much different. Both were manual. The SS had 3.42s and the GT had 3.31s so there isn't much of a difference there. Of course the actual trans ratios were different too. But in 6th gear at 70 MPH I could just push on the gas pedal and the SS had enough grunt that I could pass other vehicles without downshifting. Of course if they tried to be a jackass and sped up then I'd have to downshift. But even at that I could just drop to 5th and that was about all I needed unless they REALLY tried to be a jackass. In my GT I HAD to always downshift to get the RPMs up to where the car had enough grunt to get past other cars. Even if the other cars stayed at their pace, it would take much longer to pass them in the GT than in the SS without downshifting. Granted, if I was in a roll race I would prefer the GT since it is better suited for high RPM runs. But outside of that the SS was a better car and offered much more for DD than the GT did.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

It's all good. There's no need for you to apologize.

Well you certainly give me a good fight, lol!! I've toned it down quite a bit from back when I was actually bashing the Mustangs. So at least we're having some thought provoking conversations these days. You always make really good points and stand your ground. And you're consistent. So I can't come down on you, lol!! You're alright.

I would love a shot at launching a M6 ZL1. I think if you feather the clutch slightly more than normal and wait for the tires to catch, and then instead of nailing it to the floor do more of a gradual acceleration then you won't have this "issue". You won't do an 11.4 like the A10 does, but you should be able to do a high 11 consistently and easily. The "bog issue" seems to come when people are slamming the pedal to the floor. I'm guessing GM programmed that feature in so that people on a track coming around a corner won't nail it, spin out, and wipe the car into oblivion. This is all just what I think tho. But again, it was programmed for a reason.

All good bud! we keep this place exciting haha

Yeah the M6 ZL1 probably just needs alot of practice and effort with the way it's programmed.

[newmoon]

I'm a little bit puzzled by the comparison or theory that the Coyote assuming this is a 2018 we are comparing lacks the torque or pull of the LT1. Where does this actually occur? If you look at similar time slips for both models the 0-60, 330, 1/8, and 1/4 times and speeds are nearly the same? I could see this being the case if the Coyote gave up time lets say in the 0 - 1/8 then steamed out the remainder to make up the difference, but all timed segments are virtually the same.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I'm a little bit puzzled by the comparison or theory that the Coyote assuming this is a 2018 we are comparing lacks the torque or pull of the LT1. Where does this actually occur? If you look at similar time slips for both models the 0-60, 330, 1/8, and 1/4 times and speeds are nearly the same? I could see this being the case if the Coyote gave up time lets say in the 0 - 1/8 then steamed out the remainder to make up the difference, but all timed segments are virtually the same.

I was talking about the 15-17s. I don't have any experience with the 18s other than seeing them on the road and trying to goad them into racing me which they (understandably) decline. But I also think you're talking about the A10 GT seeing as how the M6 GT is nowhere close to what the A10 is doing...or the A8 SS. And it seems that the M6 SS is faster than the M6 GT also. But it took an A10 trans, extra compression, a revised IM and heads, and other things to get it to this point. And even at that it seems like it is only certain A10s and not all of them.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I was talking about the 15-17s. I don't have any experience with the 18s other than seeing them on the road and trying to goad them into racing me which they (understandably) decline. But I also think you're talking about the A10 GT seeing as how the M6 GT is nowhere close to what the A10 is doing...or the A8 SS. And it seems that the M6 SS is faster than the M6 GT also. But it took an A10 trans, extra compression, a revised IM and heads, and other things to get it to this point. And even at that it seems like it is only certain A10s and not all of them.

Maybe this is the case. I know the 15-17s were slow in comparison to the 18. I compared A8-A10 times and like I said given similar ETs they are nearly identical in all measured sections.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

I like instant power down low. High revving engines just never appealed to me. It's not to say I wouldn't enjoy driving one. It's just not my thing.

When I hit the gas, the LT1 delivers like no other. Power is almost instant, and there's rarely a need to take it all the way. Then there's that rumble. It would take a lot of convincing for me to trade that for an engine that needs to rev higher.

If I had to trade up, I'd be for something like the LT4.

This is all very true, and why I would love to add an LT4 to my garage to compliment the S65. I have gotten more tame as I have aged, and the one thing I cannot give up is the V8 rumble. About a year ago I added the Borla ATAK to my M3, and that V8 sound is all I need. Sometimes I do miss the low end torque and more muscle car V8 sound, and I know I will own another Chevy V8 in the next few years. I really hope to be able to swing a used M6 ZL1 one day, as I so much miss rowing my won gears.

Originally Posted by whiteboyblues2001

Here is my personal experience/opinion on this subject:

When I was young, before I could drive (about 14), one of my best friends bought a YZ100 two-stroke dirt bike. We rode the crap out of that thing, and it was fun. It was a nice light bike, but it didn't produce even a hair of power until you make it scream like crazy. All the power was up top. So, in order to drive it, the throttle was pretty much useless. You either had it fully open or fully closed, and you drove the thing using the clutch, and with gear changes. And by clutch, I mean, if you were in too high a gear, you could just feather the clutch (pull the clutch to allow the RPM's to climb sky high, then slowly release and engage that power). If you did this, it would go pretty fast. But, it was a LOT of work. It was constant gear changes, and clutch modulation. The throttle could have just as well been an on/off switch.

But then a few years later, he bought a 4-stroke 250 enduro bike. That thing had power throughout the RPM range, and now, all of a sudden, you could drive using the throttle. It was an amazing wake-up. It felt SOOOO much more powerful than the YZ. Sure, gear changes helped, and it did produce more power up top, but you could control things with just the flick of the wrist. It was an amazing difference. All of a sudden it felt so easy to go fast. On the YZ100, you had to work your a$$ off to get the thing to go, but the enduro could go without much effort. I loved that.

To me, the YZ100 was like a riding a donkey. You had to kick it and beat it, and threaten it's life just to get it to go, and when you did, the legs were going like mad, a million miles an hour, just to get up to speed. The enduro was like a thoroughbred race horse. It could go fast without all the fuss. It had a nice long stride, and so much power, and took very little coaxing to get it to go fast. It WANTED to go.

I guess those experiences just followed through to my preference here in this discussion. If I have to downshift, and wait for the engine to get to the sweet spot, you've already lost me. I feel like I am doing all the work, not the car.

I love how with this LT1, I can go to pass someone on the highway, and there is no need to downshift. I just control it with the throttle, and the car just leaps forward like a thoroughbred race horse without breaking a sweat. I'm not talking about lugging the engine either. You don't need much throttle at all. It just goes. And on the track, there is power everywhere. Sure, you will be a bit faster keeping things near where the engine produces peak power, but if you don't, the car still goes amazingly fast. You shift when you want to, not when you HAVE to. It's hard to make a mistake, because the wide power band is very forgiving.

I guess I just like a riding the race horse better than the donkey.

HAHAHAHA, I loved your donkey analogy, and it makes so much sense. Thanks for that.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I personally like the M3s and am a fan of the M4s. I would love to have one of those. I wouldn't disagree with anything you say about the M cars as I've never owned one nor been in one. I do know they are quite fast tho.

Anyway, I actually misread or misunderstood your post so there really was no reason for me to disagree with you since you didn't say anything for me to disagree with, lol! My apologies. I just soo often hear people talk about the characteristics of the higher revving engines compared to the pushrod engines that I thought you were doing that also. Anyway, yea the Coyote engines are fun when you get them into their power. But people mistakenly think that it has more RPM...which it does but how much of that is usable or how much of that is making power. Kinda like the comments made about the view in the Camaro. How much view do you actually need? Sure the Mustang has more and the Camaro has less...but it is just placebo. A lot of things involving cars are placebo. But again, that wasn't even what you were saying and I kinda jumped to conclusions, lol!!

Dude, no apology necessary. Even if you did disagree, that's completely welcome and is the basis of good conversation right? I really think the WHOLE package I get with my M is what I love so much, not JUST the engine. As mentioned above, these days all I need is a V8......I am a total cylinder snob. Only my grocery getter can have less than 8, anything else I just can't enjoy. My first car in '97 was a '94 Z28, and I just can't let that addiction go. I envy those of you with ZL1's.......I want one more every day. I would likely have test driven one and been FORCED to buy one if I didn't just buy my first house 10 months ago. It is why I refuse to test drive 1LE's or ZL1's, I know the 6th Gen platform is amazing and that I cannot handle knowing first hand just how amazing. In time though, a used ZL1 will be mine.