[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

People are all about the "Shelby" name...that would be a disgrace if the GT, any GT, could outperform it stock for stock in any performance metric. I would like to see one of these testers that got low 12s out of the A10 GT run it against the GT350 to see how they stack up to each other. But at this point, if people who buy the Shelby can tell themselves that they're honestly ok with the GT being 20K cheaper and faster then that's all that matters. And I'm not being condescending. I just know that personally, if I was dropping that much coin on a car, I would not be cool with a cheaper lower model being faster. That's just me tho.

Yes people are obsessed with the shelby name and seemingly are still willing to pay for it. I am actually a bit shocked that they are still building the 350. It does seem to me that these updates are because on a twisty course the PP2 probably did get a little to close. Which yes I did say Ford wouldn't care about, but that was also when I thought for sure 18 was going to be the last year for the 350.

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I was never impressed with the 5th Gen Z28. But it did keep up with the 5th Gen ZL1 while beating the 5th Gen ZL1 around a track. And it wasn't until 2015 that Ford was able to beat it with the GT350 which was the final year of the 5th Gen anyway. So there's all that. And it ran 12.2, not 12.3-12.5. That is if my memory serves me correctly. And at the time they came out, what cars in it's price range was keeping up with it stock for stock? Again, I was never impressed with the Z28. And that was a few years ago so why you're bringing that up now when discussing cars for the 2018 and 2019 MY sounds a bit defensive to me.

I think his point was more this. The 350 is not set up for straightline. Just like the Z/28was set up for twistys and not straightline so it doesn't make sense to bash that type of car for it's straightline performance.

Per M/T the ZL1 was a 12.1 car, the Z/28 was a 12.3 car. That is a lower priced model outperforming a higher priced model. but its ok because the Z/28 was never intended nor designed to be a 1/4 car. Same applies to the 350.

That would be like complaining on that the Hellcat has terrible Laguna Seca or ring times. Car was never meant for that so its ok.

I think that was his point more or less on that.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

The problem is you are trying to knock a NA car which has 120-less hp, and 220- less lbs of torque to its supercharged competitor as being considered slow. Soon there will be a supercharged version of this Ford and then we can measure apples to apples and see exactly how impressive the ZL1 is. But to compare it against a NA version with much less power is ridiculous. Also the prior GT500 was tested at 11:60s or faster than the manual ZL1.

Whoa whoa, slow it down a bit. Let's not go down this road again. I never knocked it, I simply pointed out the things that I personally don't like about it. And they were facts. Nothing I said was knocking it.

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

This is probably as close a comparison as you'll ever find, same day, same driver, same track. neither car is 100% stock , but I still think its a accurate test.

That video is a little too long for my liking. I tried to click thru it to get the notes but I gave up...

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

IIRC both cars were mid 11's as tested by magazines. The A10 ZL1 may have gone 11.4 in one test the GT500 seemed to always go 11.6

I'd love to see a 2013 Gt500 with the A10 run.

The ZL1 with the A10 did exactly an 11.4 in the quarter mile. I never saw a test of the 13-14 GT500 going as fast as an 11.6, I think 11.7 was the fastest it has gone. Which puts it right in range of the M6 trans 6th Gen ZL1 especially since the GT500 has more HP and less weight due to a solid axle. But the point was that these cars are going these times due only to the trans. It seemed you were trying to use the HP of the car to make it sound slower than what it really is. My bad if that wasn't what you were trying to do. But you specifically pointed out the M6 ZL1 and then mentioned the HP it has and the quarter mile time. Which is why I wanted to point out that all of these cars with manual trans and in the same HP range are all doing the same times.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

The ZL1 with the A10 did exactly an 11.4 in the quarter mile. I never saw a test of the 13-14 GT500 going as fast as an 11.6, I think 11.7 was the fastest it has gone. Which puts it right in range of the M6 trans 6th Gen ZL1 especially since the GT500 has more HP and less weight due to a solid axle. But the point was that these cars are going these times due only to the trans. It seemed you were trying to use the HP of the car to make it sound slower than what it really is. My bad if that wasn't what you were trying to do. But you specifically pointed out the M6 ZL1 and then mentioned the HP it has and the quarter mile time. Which is why I wanted to point out that all of these cars with manual trans and in the same HP range are all doing the same times.

that was newmoon you are referring to about power and 1/4 times i think. I was merely stating the facts.

motor trend claims 11.6@126.7 for the GT500

Also remember the ZL1 has more torque and everyone on the internet knows that Torque trumps Horsepower in the 1/4 mile.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I keep hearing this over and over again but as far as I know the two were never tested h2h same day, same driver. As conditions change dramatically from day to day this can't be claimed IMO.

The following article does a good job of actually comparing the Non R to the 1LE
https://www.torquenews.com/106/2017-...e-ss-tale-tape

For the SS 1LE to match the GT350R in any conditions is remarkable. Arguing against that is insane. And the fact that they have to up the Shelby's performance so they can up the GT PP2 without stepping on toes goes to show just how close the SS 1LE actually was to the Shelby.

Originally Posted by shaffe

Yes people are obsessed with the shelby name and seemingly are still willing to pay for it. I am actually a bit shocked that they are still building the 350. It does seem to me that these updates are because on a twisty course the PP2 probably did get a little to close. Which yes I did say Ford wouldn't care about, but that was also when I thought for sure 18 was going to be the last year for the 350.

Even if Ford doesn't actually care about it, which I think they really do, you have to admit that people would probably be reluctant to buy a Shelby if the GT is on it's ass. And, I mean, come on, you can't just have your top tier model getting beat by a lower tier model. Especially when the "Shelby" name is on it. That would be a disrespect. The name is supposed to represent performance. And they sacrificed a lot out of that car to make it perform like it does. So you can't justify making the GT cheaper and on the same performance level. Not for nothing but I think a lot of the people who were trying to rationalize it were just defending Ford. Which I get but still, come on...

Originally Posted by shaffe

I think his point was more this. The 350 is not set up for straightline. Just like the Z/28was set up for twistys and not straightline so it doesn't make sense to bash that type of car for it's straightline performance.

Per M/T the ZL1 was a 12.1 car, the Z/28 was a 12.3 car. That is a lower priced model outperforming a higher priced model. but its ok because the Z/28 was never intended nor designed to be a 1/4 car. Same applies to the 350.

That would be like complaining on that the Hellcat has terrible Laguna Seca or ring times. Car was never meant for that so its ok.

I think that was his point more or less on that.

Yea but I wasn't bashing the car this time. I stated it's faults. The Hellcat is a straight line car. But it does straight line better than any other car. Maybe not on the stock tires. But it takes to modifications better than any other car that I know of. The GT350 was built specifically for cornering. But the problem is that it doesn't outperform other cars in it's price range. And it can be argued that even cheaper cars can put up a fight seeing as how they have to up it's performance to keep the PP2 competitive with the SS1LE without elbowing in on the GT350's numbers in the same MY.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

that was newmoon you are referring to about power and 1/4 times i think. I was merely stating the facts.

motor trend claims 11.6@126.7 for the GT500 Also remember the ZL1 has more torque and everyone on the internet knows that Torque trumps Horsepower in the 1/4 mile.

LOL, it has 19 more TQ man. We all know that isn't much especially when the ZL1 is also heavier and when the GT500 has a solid axle which is better for straight line racing anyway. But again the point was that they're all within the same range and it is all due to the manual trans.

[FastCarFanBoy]

you keep bringing up 13 more horsepower...im just pointing out the 19 less ft/lbs.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

you keep bringing up 13 more horsepower...im just pointing out the 19 less ft/lbs.

Take it how you want it. It used to be that manual trans cars were faster than the autos. But now, even with much more HP, the manuals are not as fast. The M6 ZL1, HC, and the 13-14 GT500, all on the same HP/TQ level are all in the same quarter mile time range.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Even if Ford doesn't actually care about it, which I think they really do, you have to admit that people would probably be reluctant to buy a Shelby if the GT is on it's ass. And, I mean, come on, you can't just have your top tier model getting beat by a lower tier model. Especially when the "Shelby" name is on it. That would be a disrespect. The name is supposed to represent performance. And they sacrificed a lot out of that car to make it perform like it does. So you can't justify making the GT cheaper and on the same performance level. Not for nothing but I think a lot of the people who were trying to rationalize it were just defending Ford. Which I get but still, come on...




Yea but I wasn't bashing the car this time. I stated it's faults. The Hellcat is a straight line car. But it does straight line better than any other car. Maybe not on the stock tires. But it takes to modifications better than any other car that I know of. The GT350 was built specifically for cornering. But the problem is that it doesn't outperform other cars in it's price range. And it can be argued that even cheaper cars can put up a fight seeing as how they have to up it's performance to keep the PP2 competitive with the SS1LE without elbowing in on the GT350's numbers in the same MY.

Yes you were not bashing the car per say. But how is it a fault of the car that it's not good at the 1/4 when it's not set up for it? You brought that up specifically

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

People are all about the "Shelby" name...that would be a disgrace if the GT, any GT, could outperform it stock for stock in any performance metric. I would like to see one of these testers that got low 12s out of the A10 GT run it against the GT350 to see how they stack up to each other.

Yes the 350 was built for corners and at the time of its release it did the job better than its direct competitor the Z/28. It was then quickly surpassed in performance by the ZL1. And the 1LE is knocking on the door.

Now back to the topic of the updates, I think it's clear that Ford did care and the PP2 got a little to close to 350 as far as track times. With the 350 soldiering on another year, I think Ford is thinking like you that they need to widen that gap a bit again which is why they made the changes they did. BUT all those changes are for faster lap times, not faster ETs, because the car is not made for the strip.

Ford making updates I will admit shocked me, because I thought for sure that 18 was going to be the last model year of the 350 which is why I thought they wouldn't care if it got to close.

Which brings me back to my point of why do you continually bring up ETs with the 350 when the car was not set up for it?

That's what I don't get is all.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Yes you were not bashing the car per say. But how is it a fault of the car that it's not good at the 1/4 when it's not set up for it? You brought that up specifically



Yes the 350 was built for corners and at the time of its release it did the job better than its direct competitor the Z/28. It was then quickly surpassed in performance by the ZL1. And the 1LE is knocking on the door.

Now back to the topic of the updates, I think it's clear that Ford did care and the PP2 got a little to close to 350 as far as track times. With the 350 soldiering on another year, I think Ford is thinking like you that they need to widen that gap a bit again which is why they made the changes they did. BUT all those changes are for faster lap times, not faster ETs, because the car is not made for the strip.

Ford making updates I will admit shocked me, because I thought for sure that 18 was going to be the last model year of the 350 which is why I thought they wouldn't care if it got to close.

Which brings me back to my point of why do you continually bring up ETs with the 350 when the car was not set up for it?

That's what I don't get is all.

See below...

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I simply pointed out the things that I personally don't like about it. And they were facts. Nothing I said was knocking it.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

See below...

Your free to your opinion just as I am to mine. I just find that an odd dislike of something when that was never it's intended purpose.

That would be like me disliking a 3Hyrbid because it's not as good off the tee as a driver. Can I use it off the tee? I sure can but I know it won't go as far because that is not what that club was designed for.

[Zeke.Malvo]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

Well, they have had 4 yrs to make it .2 faster so. Give Ford props.

4 years?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Your free to your opinion just as I am to mine. I just find that an odd dislike of something when that was never it's intended purpose.

That would be like me disliking a 3Hyrbid because it's not as good off the tee as a driver. Can I use it off the tee? I sure can but I know it won't go as far because that is not what that club was designed for.

Both cars are performance cars. The ZL1 does everything well...and better than the GT350 I might add. The ZL1 has way more options. The GT350 has less options and is only good at cornering. That is how I see it. Ok so the Shelby wasn't made for quarter mile runs. It's still a fact that for the same price the ZL1 is much better at quarter miles runs while being able to beat the Shelby around the track. To me it doesn't matter what the Shelby was built for when the ZL1 is cheaper and does everything better and when the Shelby has an area where it is isn't even in the same league. Now that is about as simply and respectfully as I can put it.

When I was shopping for a car I made a list. The Shelby was on the bottom of that list for two reasons. 1 because it had only 526 HP and 2 because it was a 12 sec quarter mile car. Regardless of what it was built for, those are the main reasons I chose not to actively consider buying one. Plus some of them have the base Mustang infotainment system which I think is ridiculous. None of them should have the base system, not at that price. You shouldn't have to option in a "tech package" or whatever it's called. I didn't like the Z28 for similar reasons. To me the Shelby does not offer enough. Maybe to someone else it does. But I speak for myself. I would not have been happy with the GT350R which is why I didn't even consider buying one.

[kttxz06]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

4 years?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Well, around there. Gen 6 is what? Going on 4 years so. '19 will make 4 years.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Both cars are performance cars. The ZL1 does everything well...and better than the GT350 I might add. The ZL1 has way more options. The GT350 has less options and is only good at cornering. That is how I see it. Ok so the Shelby wasn't made for quarter mile runs. It's still a fact that for the same price the ZL1 is much better at quarter miles runs while being able to beat the Shelby around the track. To me it doesn't matter what the Shelby was built for when the ZL1 is cheaper and does everything better and when the Shelby has an area where it is isn't even in the same league. Now that is about as simply and respectfully as I can put it.

When I was shopping for a car I made a list. The Shelby was on the bottom of that list for two reasons. 1 because it had only 526 HP and 2 because it was a 12 sec quarter mile car. Regardless of what it was built for, those are the main reasons I chose not to actively consider buying one. Plus some of them have the base Mustang infotainment system which I think is ridiculous. None of them should have the base system, not at that price. You shouldn't have to option in a "tech package" or whatever it's called. I didn't like the Z28 for similar reasons. To me the Shelby does not offer enough. Maybe to someone else it does. But I speak for myself. I would not have been happy with the GT350R which is why I didn't even consider buying one.

the fact you mentioned you didn't like the Z/28 for the same reasons, I will respect your opinion. If you mentioned you disliked the Z/28 for same reasons previously, my bad for not noticing.