[toohighpsi]

I'm still trying to understand that anyone would pick a camshaft based off the sound...

[BradfordCamaro]

Originally Posted by toohighpsi

I'm still trying to understand that anyone would pick a camshaft based off the sound...

That is how they advertise them.
Stage 1, stage 2,....
The higher the stage the more lope and shake you think you get.

[MP3BOOSTED]

Originally Posted by BradfordCamaro

That is how they advertise them.
Stage 1, stage 2,....
The higher the stage the more lope and shake you think you get.

Yup, thats why i went with a stage 3

[Drsagacity]

Originally Posted by toohighpsi

I'm still trying to understand that anyone would pick a camshaft based off the sound...

I am getting one of the JRE kits. He has two cams smooth idle or rough idle. He told me they both get the same results...so it really comes down to picking the sound profile that you want.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

Pretty much...but you come to Camaro 6 and you have guys that can't even figure out what kind of lifters to run questioning those that live and breathe camshaft design.

Please, if this is a snipe at me, at least I don't defend the indefensible.

Yep new motor to me, aftermarket cam that I did NOT design, etc, I do all my own work, so yep I found LS7 lifters do not work with AFM cam, no problem, I changed the cam, all by my myself.


Oh BTW, I've learned all about cam phaser, and BMR mounts and how to change the cam in the car and that 2016 is the last year for R134, how to measure pump lift and clearance, that indeed the cam can be change without pulling the engine or dropping the pan, or taking off the A/C. So what have you contributed? Right LSA does not effect lope...

I guess you woke up one morning and knew the LS7 lifter does not work with AFM cams? Right.. NOT.... I'm one of the few people here that actually works on the car, and yep I screw up as many times. I could have easily pulled the engine and put in a forged stroker with F1 supercharger. But this is a hobby and I like to do it one step at a time, since labor is free and this is a hobby.

[KingLT1]

I work on my own stuff too Boo.

The point was if you know enough to basically call BS on the theory of a highly regarded cam grinder in the LS world, then you should know trivial stuff like what lifters to run...especially when the guy you bought your blower from told you the answer.

Far as contributing to the forum...I feel I have contributed a fair amount. Especially on the tuning side of things because I try to do most of my own tuning as well. I just bought this car at the end of last season.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

I work on my own stuff too Boo.

The point was if you know enough to basically call BS on the theory of a highly regarded cam grinder in the LS world, then you should know trivial stuff like what lifters to run...especially when the guy you bought your blower from told you the answer.

Far as contributing to the forum...I feel I have contributed a fair amount. Especially on the tuning side of things because I try to do most of my own tuning as well. I just bought this car at the end of last season.

Yawn, the Math is the Math, LSA has twice the effect on overlap as duration PERIOD. The article was misleading, and written so. The 22X duration that we talk about, which makes up 95% of the performance cams installed on street cars, it is LSA that is moved around to bring up midrange torque at the expense of idle quality. Hence as a rule of thumb LSA is used to determine lope at idle BECAUSE it has TWICE the impact on overlap. TWICE, let me repeat one last time TWICE.


But nope you have to launch a personal attack, it is called a strawman argument. Oldman put in LS7 lifters with an AFM cam and found out he had to change cam... and KingLT thinks LSA is not related overlap Oldman changes cam, and KingLT launches personal attacks and now claims I'm calling some guy I don't know a BS artist. I merely and correctly pointed out the article is bias and does little to refute the Mathematical fact that LSA has DOUBLE the effect on overlap vs duration changes.

[oldman]

For the rest of you look at this:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/camsh...ted-explained/

Same lift and duration only LSA changed. This is a big cam, you will note that the 113 LSA actually has decent idle vacuum, while the 101 has very little. Idle vacuum is directly related to smoothness of course.

[KingLT1]

I didn't launch a personal attack you did...when you reply using the term "Duh", that insinuates that the person you are replying to is stupid.

I never said LSA has nothing to do with overlap.

oh boi you changed a cam...wow guess what so have I. I built and tuned this car myself.

https://youtu.be/8wgKAPy5VkQ

[oldman]

Originally Posted by KingLT1

I didn't launch a personal attack you did...when you reply using the term "Duh", that insinuates that the person you are replying to is stupid.

I never said LSA has nothing to do with overlap.

oh boi you changed a cam...wow guess what so have I. I built and tuned this car myself.

https://youtu.be/8wgKAPy5VkQ

I got news for ya, the post are sequential. You went off on a tangent trying to discredit me because I'm sharing my experience building a new engine from scratch. I'm not a "king" like you and I am not bothered in the least to list mistakes during my build. I figure guys won't make the same mistake. But only "kings", being rulers by divine right make no mistakes, and since you never do you should feel critical of anybody in a hobby that publishes information and help list any mistakes. Sorry I'm just not used to dealing with royalty and did not attend any classes to allow me to do so. I can see you as king publish your build. I decree engine shall built and it was so, no mistakes. LOL funny.

You tried to redirect and discredit me via strawman, because you continue to insist your statement "LSA does not have anything to do with cam lope...Overlap does." YES YOU WROTE THAT


Is just flat out wrong. LSA as you freely admit is related to overlap and in fact is TWICE as important vs duration, we already know overlap is related to lope, ergo, completely linear logic here LSA is related to lope and in fact TWICE as important. You see the logic?


I've already posted a cam with the exact same duration, same engine with just LSA changes going from a reasonable idle / vacuum draw to not enough vacuum to power the brakes...

[KingLT1]

Lol...no you posted first using the term "DUH" before I ever made the lifter comment.

For the last time, I already said previously if you took the same durations and changed the LSA to a smaller number, overlap increases...so you didn't prove a damn thing. What started this whole thing was when HyperSS asked the OP what LSA the cam was. I said LSA does not matter because it doesn't unless you know the rest of the cam specs. Final overlap is what determines how much the cam will chop...you need to know duration and LSA to be able to calculate overlap. At that point we didn't know the full cam specs. That is all I was trying to imply and show the correct way to look at cam specs. I'm well aware how LSA effects overlap.

So now you want to use a screen name to crutch your argument? Jesus H Private Pyle what's your malfunction? I don't think I am King of anything...I am pretty humble imho.

That being said if you want to discuss this further, take it to PM because I am done arguing this crap. Have more important things to do with my time and I'm sure others are tired of reading it.

[oldman]

For folks that care here are the 3 Lingenfelter blower cams:
GT31 217 / 231 Average duration 224, LSA 121 overlap - 11 degrees
This is sold as a smooth idle cam

GT34 229/233 Average duration 231, LSA 118 overlap -5 degrees
This is sold as a Muscle Car, semi-aggressive idle cam

The "bigger cam" GT35 made with either big or HUGE fuel lobe for high boost fueling is:

GT 35 210/237 Average duration 223.5, LSA 116.5 overlap -9.5
This is sold as a Muscle Car, semi-aggressive idle cam


Here we have the biggest cam with even LESS duration than the smooth idle cam, but because of the more performance LSA of 116.5, it is rated at more HP, and also ding ding ding… semi-aggressive idle. Note, less duration, tighter lobe (LSA) than the smooth idle cam = semi-aggressive idle.


Conclusion, when duration is DECREASED by .5 average GT31 to GT35, from the smooth idle cam a 4.5 change in LSA results in rough idle, therefore LSA is fundamentally and is the largest contributor to idle. By formula it is 4x more effective, that any single degree of change from either intake or exhaust duration, and 2x more effective than an average duration change (changing BOTH intake and exhaust duration).


I think the GT31 cam makes the most sense a wide LSA, long exhaust.

I think the GT35 cam is an interesting way to make a high boost cam, drop the intake duration, expand the exhaust duration even further and tighten the LSA.


Both cams make up very interesting sides of the cam spectrum. My cam came as part of a package, I guess it would be called Pray stage 1 it has close to zero overlap and is more related to other builders. Pray has the dyno run of his stage 2 cam with a few degrees of overlap posted and that cam pulls to 7000 RPM and is making serious HP.


Actual LT1/4 supercharged cams rated by a top builder.

[ProCharger]

CAM LOPE vs 2016+ Camaros.

There is so much control in these cars new ECU's its to the point where I can almost make a "ghost cam" tune. And on the other extreme make a very wild cam sound soft.

You can play with the ECU's ability to understand airflow, tq, timing, and cam position... So the point where you can make baby smooth or roudy.

Obviously everything within reason. IE: no 108 LSA cam will be baby smooth, and a stock cam can't sound like a 108. However with a mild cam like a 114-116 is pretty amazing what you can do.



Buying a "cam" for the sound is really weird. Since again even back to 1999, its been very easy to manipulate the ECU to make drastic changes in idle "sounds"