[DSX_Camaro]

Thanks dude.

Fact of the matter is if you want more power, you need more air. Cost vs performance is always a question but when you only look at a before and after dyno of single parts you can write them off easily... but the more you modify and the more air you move and the more fuel you can add, the more power you can make. And the more tuning is done and the more competent people become at tuning them, the more power can be extracted. You can't just pick and choose what you want and then be irritated if you don't hit your intended power goals.

You have to pay to play. If modifying isn't worth it to you, then yeah, save some money and get a V8. Or just don't modify your V6. I personally love my V6, and I have yet to regret any modifications, nor am I done. Could I have bought a V8 for the cost of mods? Yes, but then I wouldn't have a really nice fully loaded V6, I would have a base model SS. A 2SS to match my 2LT was 15k more. And cost to mod the V8 is typically more. Catless downpipes for my car? $367.50. Long tubes for the SS? 1200-2k for a Kooks set.

But no one is gonna knock the long tube headers because they produce more power. On an engine 70% bigger. In a more expensive car. (......)

[Joker75]

Originally Posted by Nsxmatt

Many many people have had the tune done. All dealer updates are done daily with their HDS type system. Call another dealer, they are feeding you a bunch of BS.

Just to clarify, how many 2018 V6 Camaros do you know of that have had the ECU flashed with the GM tune, after installing the GMPP Intake? The Service Adviser and technician were supposedly told by the Tech support line that the 2018s are not supported yet. I understand that there have been plenty of 2016 and 2017 model year V6 Camaros that have had the tune done, so I just wanted to make sure we are talking about the same thing.

If anyone else has any tips, or helpful information, it would be greatly appreciated.

[Nsxmatt]

Originally Posted by PolynesianPowerhouse

the more and more I think about in bold, I'm having philosophical thoughts......

don't get me wrong... I like dynos.... but I don't feel that they are the end all be all of the performance of a part that can be gained.

Dyno's aren't, but if done correctly you can tell if a part is making a difference. The old dynojet we used was always right on the money, it's a standard 2000lb drum and we always use the same correction and smoothing. There is no fudging that number. The mustang being load bearing and using inputs like car weight means the results can vary a lot, but it's by far the best to tune on.

I just feel if you're making a part you should do some testing and see if that 80mm TB is the best choice or is it too big and a 78 would be better, or maybe 82 makes more. They have no way to tell, they just picked a number and started selling it. If they can't secure a dyno to test some parts or it's not in the budget, don't make the part. You're making the customers out to be lab rats and that's just not right.

Originally Posted by PolynesianPowerhouse

its no different than a guy in the gym doing bench press.... its never been indicative of how strong someone actually is overall. its not even how strong ones chest is, given the triceps and front delts carry some of the load.

That's why rarely bench heavy anymore, but I have a 700lb raw deadlift

[Nsxmatt]

Originally Posted by Joker75

Just to clarify, how many 2018 V6 Camaros do you know of that have had the ECU flashed with the GM tune, after installing the GMPP Intake? The Service Adviser and technician were supposedly told by the Tech support line that the 2018s are not supported yet. I understand that there have been plenty of 2016 and 2017 model year V6 Camaros that have had the tune done, so I just wanted to make sure we are talking about the same thing.

If anyone else has any tips, or helpful information, it would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry I just assumed you had a 16/17 since they don't list the 18's for intake to even work with. In that case I'm sure it will be added at some point.

[PolynesianPowerhouse]

Originally Posted by Nsxmatt

Dyno's aren't, but if done correctly you can tell if a part is making a difference. The old dynojet we used was always right on the money, it's a standard 2000lb drum and we always use the same correction and smoothing. There is no fudging that number. The mustang being load bearing and using inputs like car weight means the results can vary a lot, but it's by far the best to tune on.

I just feel if you're making a part you should do some testing and see if that 80mm TB is the best choice or is it too big and a 78 would be better, or maybe 82 makes more. They have no way to tell, they just picked a number and started selling it. If they can't secure a dyno to test some parts or it's not in the budget, don't make the part. You're making the customers out to be lab rats and that's just not right.



That's why rarely bench heavy anymore, but I have a 700lb raw deadlift

I agree you can tell if the part is making a difference or not. But with just simple testing on the streets are at the track can also justify if it's making a difference or not just the same. I think by now we already know it makes a difference. People just want to see how much.

As far as the picking which millimeter to use on the throttle bodies, I'm pretty much at least 99% sure that they are basing this off of the LFX platform and the gains that it gave there.

Given that the lgx is basically a similar engine, just different updates here and there, the intake and exhaust side of things will pretty much hold the same as to what produces gains on the car.

Also sourcing out other sizes would mean that there will probably be a need for a custom throttle body to be made.

With that being said, if you look at the way JPSS and JDP Motorsports built their brake upgrade systems it was basically using the GM parts bin to Source out Brembo 6-piston calipers, two-piece rotors, and brake pads which both use in their brake upgrade kits.


Granted these parts were originally on other makes and models it just goes to show that you can use proven parts from the past and basically make it work.

Since this worked on the 5th gen LFX engine, they are trying it out and see if it works on the LGX engine. And so far it looks like it's working pretty well.

Your only other option is basically to DIY and do all the testing and Source out the throttle bodies from various sizes of 78-82 millimeter range and go through all that trouble. or you can use something that is already been proven to work...

Once again, frugal community as a whole isnt gonna pay for all that time research and testing in the final price. Hence use what has worked on similar engine setups and is proven.

And dont blame ya... i stopped at 435x2 bench and 735 for 1 on squats. That phase of wowing others faded quickly....

[Kenny Camaro]

All cai intake have misleading dyno hp readings. They are not done at a on to one gear ratio. My K+N claims 12 or 9 or what ever they claim. That's the peak across the sweep, not max hp. Then you look at the dyno sheet it's +9 at 3,800 rpms on a third fear pull, and it's 2hp at max. So +9 at 3,800 isn't + 9 at 6,400 rpms where max hp is, it's 1 or 2

[Kenny Camaro]

Anyone that wants to drive to Wills up in Canada, I'm sure he can arrange dyno testing. Can't really afford 35,000 vehicle to test a 649. Mod. Should have dyno numbers soon as a client will be dynoing stock then the combo without a tune.

[Kenny Camaro]

. But just boring out a TB and saying this works and makes more power without any testing just doesn’t seem right to me.[/QUOTE]
The Throttlebody is a stock 80mm Throttlebody that is 11.4% larger than the stock 72 mm. Nothing has been done to it. It's been sold to the 5th gen. Owners for years. It's a proven power adder and with the porting on the intake itself it will produce more power. Drumbc gave you his improved timings. There is more than " Boring out a TB, and it has worked effectively in the past and will be proven on the dyno soon. I don't see any other 300+ N/A dyno sheets around. Drumbc has one and it has Overkill's name on it.

[Nsxmatt]

Originally Posted by Kenny Camaro

. The Throttlebody is a stock 80mm Throttlebody that is 11.4% larger than the stock 72 mm. Nothing has been done to it. It's been sold to the 5th gen. Owners for years. It's a proven power adder and with the porting on the intake itself it will produce more power. Drumbc gave you his improved timings. There is more than " Boring out a TB, and it has worked effectively in the past and will be proven on the dyno soon. I don't see any other 300+ N/A dyno sheets around. Drumbc has one and it has Overkill's name on it.

Hey, I'm all for quality parts for the V6 because I own one and I never leave anything stock and I'm not downing the parts at all because if they work i'll buy it. But I want to see it work and see that the cost/power gains are worth it. I saw the dyno sheets, but I also saw the time slips and MPH which don't equal out to 300+ whp in my opinion. But there are so many variables and not many of them out there yet so we will see with time. I plan on doing basic bolt on's to my car including the GM intake and tune and will have before and after track times to see what kind of difference they are making.

[Kenny Camaro]

Originally Posted by Nsxmatt

Hey, I'm all for quality parts for the V6 because I own one and I never leave anything stock and I'm not downing the parts at all because if they work i'll buy it. But I want to see it work and see that the cost/power gains are worth it. I saw the dyno sheets, but I also saw the time slips and MPH which don't equal out to 300+ whp in my opinion. But there are so many variables and not many of them out there yet so we will see with time. I plan on doing basic bolt on's to my car including the GM intake and tune and will have before and after track times to see what kind of difference they are making.

I think that the GM intake and tune are fine. Especially if you plan on doing more on the intake side with the Overkill combo unit. All of them together work hand and glove on the intake side of the engine. Hopefully this weekend there will be some hard dyno numbers concerning rwhp gains over stock. That's why there has been no estimate. We want good information, before it is said.

[PolynesianPowerhouse]

Originally Posted by Nsxmatt

Hey, I'm all for quality parts for the V6 because I own one and I never leave anything stock and I'm not downing the parts at all because if they work i'll buy it. But I want to see it work and see that the cost/power gains are worth it. I saw the dyno sheets, but I also saw the time slips and MPH which don't equal out to 300+ whp in my opinion. But there are so many variables and not many of them out there yet so we will see with time. I plan on doing basic bolt on's to my car including the GM intake and tune and will have before and after track times to see what kind of difference they are making.

FAR more factors than equating HP to equal what a time slip says...

-track condition.
-tire pressure
-tire size (affects gear ratio)
-wheel hop/slip
-and one of the more uncontrollable important factors the DA - Density Altitude at the track at any given time.


For example... the overkill S/C when dustya posted a while back put down like 381 whp... https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showp...&postcount=144

MyneS stage 2 of the same supercharger put down 400+ whp https://www.camaro6.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=54

...however back when it was just at 366 whp and 299 TQ MyneS went to a track and put down a 13.1

Would anyone REALLY TRULY believe that a car that has at least 100+ more HP than I have, only runs 3 TENTHS faster than my personal best of 13.462 in the 1/4 mile? I don't, I know MyneS has more in it to lay to the track. easily being the faster car.



I saw the post where you were contesting DrumBc's times

Originally Posted by NSXMatt

But you said you ran 8.6@83 with all your mods on e85 and I ran a 8.9@80 stock with 1000 miles, so the times and dyno numbers are not really adding up.

mind you, you're in Kentucky, Drum is in NC....

temp, track condition, DA, humidity... all factors, none of which were mentioned. to start, they have a higher MPH and lower et in the 1/8th (I'm assuming) than yours... and comparable to ghosteye07 as was mentioned. Ghosteye, also has run a 13.1 last I checked. but out in Cali.. once again, does that mean an e85 tuned car, is just as fast as a boosted car with about 60 more whp?? doubtful. 3 tenths is a decent amount of time to pick up though.... torque converters, mild street ones where you go from about 1800-2000 stall to 2800 can net some on avg about 4-6 tenths... cost? 800$ for a converter and about 3-500 to install. so about 1200 for 4-6 tenths? for some its worth it... for others...meh...


As pointed out, MyneS and Dustya...both easily 100+ hp than me... however the one run I posted above from a boosted car was 91 degrees...AT NIGHT. I usually go when its 50 degrees...and day time. two way different temps, but yet there's only 3 tenths distance between our times. even with me being closer to 370lbs, .300 is better than most beginners reaction times

it would be beyond silly to think a car with 100+ whp, 6-8 Grand in mods more than I, is only worth 3 tenths.

even if you run two cars against a curve, ideally it should be at the same track and similar temps. if not, you're gonna have to factor in those variables on a correction. when the DA gets poopy here (1100+), I'm at 13.6-13.7 all day... on a good DA I've been 13.4-13.5 (0-400)


that's why I don't feel you can always equate JUST hp numbers into times at a track. a general ball park maybe sometimes, but nothing absolute. not until you factor in the car's ACTUAL SHOWING performance that day, and then the conditions and temp. we all run at tracks around the country...different climates and I'm sure different preps

[DSX_Camaro]

I would also like to point out gearing as a factor infrequently talked about. The V6 8 speed is geared like the SS (2.77 rear end) with the V6 M6 sharing the 3.27 rear end with the turbo 4. If a V6 M6 had an SS rear end in it (3.73) or a V6 A8 with a new 1LE V6 rear end (3.27), I am positive it would move with significantly more haste. The V6 wants to rev high. Pair it with sticky tires and I'm confident times would start dropping. Anyone seen how quick the 2.0 A8's can be? (I have been on the receiving end of that one, before regearing my car and a few other things)

Weight also. But the 6th gen has a significant weight advantage compared to the 5th gen and I'd be hard pressed to think of where weight could easily be saved.

[JakeF_RS]

Hey, new here and new to the Camaro platform, but not new to modding V6s... The AFE intake claims 31% more airflow and the GMPP intake claims 15%. It would make sense that the AFE would make more power but I've heard a few people saying that they've seen better 1/8 or 1/4 times and feel more power with the GMPP. Is this just because the GM intake includes a tune? I'm a fan of the enclosed box on the AFE but I'm going with the one that works best.

[PolynesianPowerhouse]

Originally Posted by JakeF_RS

Hey, new here and new to the Camaro platform, but not new to modding V6s... The AFE intake claims 31% more airflow and the GMPP intake claims 15%. It would make sense that the AFE would make more power but I've heard a few people saying that they've seen better 1/8 or 1/4 times and feel more power with the GMPP. Is this just because the GM intake includes a tune? I'm a fan of the enclosed box on the AFE but I'm going with the one that works best.

Ive had both, and honestly the biggest advantage to the gm one is the reflash.

Sure, the afe may flow 31% more, and it worked GREAT without a reflash/tune... but the only way to FULLY take advantage of that extra 31% of flow is to have a tune that tells the MAF sensor to start reading more air flow. Else it will just read lean, but not enough to throw a code. Just enough to alter the fuel trims to throw in more fuel to adjust.

Ive already done a post if you search for it. Lt fuel trims were 13-18% additional with the afe. Afyer the gm intake the lt fuel trims were within 0-3%, which is close to stock, but the reflash allows the maf to read more airflow, and also adjusts the injector pulse width.

One makes power by making the system adjust, the gm makes power by adjusting the system from the start. Flip a coin, both have great potential and there isnt a best. If there was you wouldnt have a need to ask which one is...

Its gonna boil down to which one you like the looks of, and do you want gm to reflash the ecm or an aftermarket reflash. Legit.