[motorhead]

Originally Posted by Fast Dalmation

So I ask, who really cares if the ZLE 1LE resale values sunk?

The guy that is trying to get out from under one early because he has a new ZR1 orderd for one. Or the guy that bought one only to realize that its more car than he can afford. Now he's unside down and wondering how he's going to get out of it. Or the guy that bought one and lost his job a year later while he paid MSRP or more a year earlier.

All great words you wrote, but they mean little to the people in these realities. Depreciation can and does break some people.

[crossroaddemons]

Originally Posted by motorhead

The guy that is trying to get out from under one early because he has a new ZR1 orderd for one. Or the guy that bought one only to realize that its more car than he can afford. Now he's unside down and wondering how he's going to get out of it. Or the guy that bought one and lost his job a year later while he paid MSRP or more a year earlier.

All great words you wrote, but they mean little to the people in these realities. Depreciation can and does break some people.

In both cases you’re talking about buying with your heart not your head. If you bought a ZL1 and now you want a ZR1 you obviously should have put more thought into the first car. As far as finding out it’s more car than you can afford I go back to my first point. Losing a job is no joke. I bought every car I own for cash. I never found myself contemplating selling my car even when I was between jobs. As I said earlier depreciation only affects sellers not owners. These are luxuries. I’d you wanna play you gotta pay

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by crossroaddemons

In both cases you’re talking about buying with your heart not your head. If you bought a ZL1 and now you want a ZR1 you obviously should have put more thought into the first car. As far as finding out it’s more car than you can afford I go back to my first point. Losing a job is no joke. I bought every car I own for cash. I never found myself contemplating selling my car even when I was between jobs. As I said earlier depreciation only affects sellers not owners. These are luxuries. I’d you wanna play you gotta pay

He question was "who cares about depreciation?" I simply showed him expamples of who does. oh, and depreciation also affects buys too. The entire premise of my posts in this thread.

Oh and paying cash for a car isnt always a sound financial move either, but that another thread. Lol

[crossroaddemons]

Originally Posted by motorhead

He question was "who cares about depreciation?" I simply showed him expamples of who does. oh, and depreciation also affects buys too. The entire premise of my posts in this thread.

Oh and paying cash for a car isnt always a sound financial move either, but that another thread. Lol

I have to put my earnings from waste management somewhere

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by motorhead

The guy that is trying to get out from under one early because he has a new ZR1 orderd for one. Or the guy that bought one only to realize that its more car than he can afford. Now he's unside down and wondering how he's going to get out of it. Or the guy that bought one and lost his job a year later while he paid MSRP or more a year earlier.

All great words you wrote, but they mean little to the people in these realities. Depreciation can and does break some people.

I bought my ZL1 brand new. And now I want a ZR1. But guess what. I can wait. If the person can't wait and if they have that much money that they can afford a brand new ZR1 right after buying a brand new ZL1 then I doubt $10K in depreciation is even a second thought to them anyway. As far as losing a job...that can happen with any car purchase. You have to take that into consideration when you buy a new car anyway. And again, if you lose your job, I highly doubt a ZL1 will be a concern at that point. they'll be more concerned with keeping a roof over their head and/or food on the table. If anything they'd probably ditch the ZL1 as fast as possible, even with taking a loss, and get something more practical for their situation. In both of those situations depreciation or even the ZL1 itself would not take precedence or be a concern. For the person who bought the car and realize they can't afford it...well they should have worked all that out beforehand. If take a depreciation hit is too much then they would probably be better off unloading some other expenses (cable, going out, etc) to ease the car payment until they aren't upside down or can afford to get rid of the car. Depreciation isn't going to make or break someone. There is always a way around it. Even if you hit hard times, call the bank and work something out. Simple as it is.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

I bought my ZL1 brand new. And now I want a ZR1. But guess what. I can wait. If the person can't wait and if they have that much money that they can afford a brand new ZR1 right after buying a brand new ZL1 then I doubt $10K in depreciation is even a second thought to them anyway. As far as losing a job...that can happen with any car purchase. You have to take that into consideration when you buy a new car anyway. And again, if you lose your job, I highly doubt a ZL1 will be a concern at that point. they'll be more concerned with keeping a roof over their head and/or food on the table. If anything they'd probably ditch the ZL1 as fast as possible, even with taking a loss, and get something more practical for their situation. In both of those situations depreciation or even the ZL1 itself would not take precedence or be a concern. For the person who bought the car and realize they can't afford it...well they should have worked all that out beforehand. If take a depreciation hit is too much then they would probably be better off unloading some other expenses (cable, going out, etc) to ease the car payment until they aren't upside down or can afford to get rid of the car. Depreciation isn't going to make or break someone. There is always a way around it. Even if you hit hard times, call the bank and work something out. Simple as it is.

I guess it is simple if you dont mind defaulting on a loan because the depreciation put you upside down. Its no wonder this country is going down hill fast with the logic people try to use to blow money these days. Im not talking about you either. You obviously are a pretty well off fellow that has enough disposal income that burning through it wont affect your livelihood. That's cool. It took me thirty years to build what i have from nothing. I love toys and have enjoyed many, but I also know its a lot harder to make it than it is to spend it.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I guess it is simple if you dont mind defaulting on a loan because the depreciation put you upside down. Its no wonder this country is going down hill fast with the logic people try to use to blow money these days. Im not talking about you either. You obviously are a pretty well off fellow that has enough disposal income that burning through it wont affect your livelihood. That's cool. It took me thirty years to build what i have from nothing. I love toys and have enjoyed many, but I also know its a lot harder to make it than it is to spend it.

I think the decision has to be made when you walk into the dealership to buy a car like this, you have to understand that if for some reason you change your mind in the near future you will have lost 20% or more on your investment. If you are ok with that go for it and enjoy, if not you may be better to sit on the sidelines a year or two and wait for somebody else to take the financial hit for you. IMO paying 50-100k for a Mustang, Challenger, or Camaro is crazy but that is just me. There will always be somebody faster than you.

[JB'sZL1]

Originally Posted by motorhead

I guess it is simple if you dont mind defaulting on a loan because the depreciation put you upside down. Its no wonder this country is going down hill fast with the logic people try to use to blow money these days.

There are people like that, people that don't mind defaulting. However, there are far more people that borrow what they cannot afford.

One of the biggest economic lies told in this country was to borrow as much for as long as one can. That lie is good for the banks and the market...not the people. It actually caused banks to close, and hugely effected the market. Nevermind many of the bank's auditors had their eyes closed.

One of the best economic truisms in this country is you cannot afford it if you cannot buy it...meaning no loan. That truth is good for the people, not so good for the banks and the market.

Conspicuous consumption and overlending will continue to be a problem for some. That's simply capitalism in a free economy.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I think the decision has to be made when you walk into the dealership to buy a car like this, you have to understand that if for some reason you change your mind in the near future you will have lost 20% or more on your investment. If you are ok with that go for it and enjoy, if not you may be better to sit on the sidelines a year or two and wait for somebody else to take the financial hit for you. IMO paying 50-100k for a Mustang, Challenger, or Camaro is crazy but that is just me. There will always be somebody faster than you.

Many are missing my point. Just because someone bought their car new and a I buy the same car a year or two later when they get bored doesnt make that car any slower or perform any less than it did when it was new. Often these cars are traded in and the current model hasnt changed or the trade may even be the current model. Sometimes you are better off buying new, but in today's car market good deals are out there. Cars in general tank quickly these days. We are in a truck and SUV market right now. I see the same new Camaros and Mustangs sitting for months on lots while SUV and Trucks barely have time for the motors to cool off from being unloaded.

[JB'sZL1]

I don't know that anyone has missed that. Many have posted the 20-30% savings is not worth it: they will always buy new. Others have posted, like you, they will not buy new, and will only buy an "as new" vehicle for a minimum 20-30% savings.

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by JB'sZL1

I don't know that anyone has missed that. Many have posted the 20-30% savings is not worth it: they will always buy new. Others have posted, like you, they will not buy new, and will only buy an "as new" vehicle for a minimum 20-30% savings.

Yeah, just rambling at this point. Sorry.

[URBAN LEGEND]

Both camps are right. Do what benefits you and your family. I’m in the “only new” camp BTW.

[detltu]

Originally Posted by TRZ06

Low volume production isn't in GM's business model. That is more a luxury brand's forte, or in the case of Ford a supercar.

The Corvette Z06's, ZR1s, and Camaro Zl1's of the world have the numbers and performance to take on just about anything, but do not have the prestige, level of quality of materials, and low volume to warrant high resale values.

GM is one of the worst at this. They price these types of cars at a certain MSRP, and after the hype is over, there're are $10K discounts on them, so more people can obtain them to make their margins.

They suck in the suckers or thoses who have huge amounts of money to over pay for them, then lower the cost after the hype to mass sale.

It's great for those who can wait for a bit and buy at a discount.

You have made some good points. I underlined some key things that are important here.
1. Prestige. I agree that the Corvette and Camaro lack prestige. They shouldn't. They are awesome cars, but as long as GM will build more than they can sell and people see them sold at a heavy discount, the prestige just won't be there. It's a shame because the performance really is world class.
2. Low volume. They kind of accidentally have this as the cars just aren't selling well. For the highest performance cars in particular, I think they should limit production to around what they think they are going to sell. I'm fairly certain that just announcing a limit increases demand even if you may not reach that limit.
3. Discounts. Its great that people who might not have been able to afford a Z28 were able to get one last generation with the steep discounts, but in my opinion they should never discount the top of the line models because..
4. Suckers. You kind of make everyone who buys one new or pre-discount look like a sucker. Nobody wants to look like a sucker. Investors and collectors certainly don't want to look like a sucker. That means they stay away and don't buy a car.

I don't plan on selling my ZL1 so it's easy to say the resale value doesn't affect me, but if god forbid someone hits me and totals my car the resale value is important. The 2014-2015 Z/28 is largely viewed as a failure because of the steep discounts and heavy depreciation. That's a shame and I would hate to see the same thing happen to the ZL1 1LE or other high performance Camaro's.

[unavailablezl1]

Originally Posted by baron95

That is exactly what was said about the Z/28. And within 6 months the bottom fell out.

A ZL1-1LE is testing an unnaturally high pricing level for a Camaro, and it is a vehicle that is hard for posers to live with. There are very few buyers who can afford and use the ZL1-1LE as intended (track).

I think it is an awesome vehicle. You think it is an awesome vehicle. Others here think that as well. But we are in a tiny minority.

Being a minority for the ZL1 comes with the territory when they only made in 2017, 3048 copies. They will hold their value somewhat. They are cheaper now since the newness has worn off, but I got mine a year ago at $3k below sticker mainly because I traded in the GT350. Best car decision.