02-13-2018, 08:39 AM | #43 |
corner barstool sitter
Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 19 WRX Join Date: Jul 2012
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I actually lengthened the throw on my car's aftermarket shifter to be a little longer than stock. Makes very little difference in road course lap times at my level (decent intermediate?), and I don't drag-race at all. But it shifts so much nicer all the time . . . I'd do the same sort of mod again for any car's "short-throw" shifter.
Norm
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'08 GT coupe 5M (the occasional track toy)
'19 WRX 6M (the family sedan . . . seriously) |
02-13-2018, 11:19 AM | #44 | |
Drives: 2017 SS 1LE, 2016 1SS (previous) Join Date: Apr 2016
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I would just prefer a slightly shorter throw that factory. It's OK and the 1LE isn't much of an improvement - not enough to warrant the cost and time to change to it. |
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02-13-2018, 06:03 PM | #45 | ||||
Drives: 2013 Camaro SS and 2016 Camaro SS Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
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That is correct, we have shipped out a prototype Billet/Plus shifter that allows reuse of the OEM shift knob. We should have an update soon!
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This is correct, the reduced throw of a shifter does not affect the synchros of the vehicle. After installing any aftermarket shifter that reduces shift throw into any vehicle, some changes in driving style may be needed to adjust to the new performance characteristics. While issues could arise due to improper clutch engagement and rev-matching techniques, a driver with manual transmission experience should have no issues driving their vehicle with this shifter. As mentioned earlier, we have had our Billet/Plus shifter installed in our very own 6th Gen Camaro SS and have not had any issues with grinding, excessive "notchiness", or synchro issues with it installed. If you have any additional questions about this shifter feel free to give us a call at 707-544-4761 and we will be more than happy to answer them for you. |
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02-14-2018, 01:39 PM | #46 |
corner barstool sitter
Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 19 WRX Join Date: Jul 2012
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The more complete story is that I'm not the kind of enthusiast who drag races or bangs gears and chirps tires coming off every traffic light the instant it goes green. I'm really a traditional sports car guy with a desire for a bit more power than that usually implies.
It probably matters that since about 1973, all of our family sedans have been MT cars, and of course shift action in a FWD or AWD car tends to be 'light' unless something is actually bent or broken. So I probably notice notchiness more than most ponycar owners and don't tolerate it nearly as much (she wouldn't tolerate it at all any more). One thing I wasn't expecting (but perhaps should have) was that getting the shift knob closer to the steering wheel does seem to make for an easier reach when your right hand is constantly going back and forth between the shift lever and the steering wheel out on a road course . . . or in traffic that refuses to maintain a constant enough speed to comfortably leave a MT in one gear. Side note to HurstPerf . . . There's been at least one Hurst shifter in my past, that first operated a T10 (later donating its lever to the TR3550 that eventually replaced the T10). Norm
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'08 GT coupe 5M (the occasional track toy)
'19 WRX 6M (the family sedan . . . seriously) |
02-14-2018, 04:50 PM | #47 |
Drives: 16 Camaro 1SS & 82 Silverado C10 Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: VA
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I love my Hurst in mine. 1st and only mod, so far. Love the 40% reduction. Question to Hurst I would be interested if you guys are just making a separate post that can be switched out from our threaded one to the stock knob post, or have you changed more than that?
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Ordered 1SS Black on Black, M6 in late summer 2015.
Hurst shifter, Soler Performance ported TB. |
03-08-2018, 02:09 PM | #48 |
Drives: 2017 SS 1LE, 2016 1SS (previous) Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Metro-Detroit
Posts: 1,863
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Ford (with Tremec) learned otherwise. And GM says...
Bulletin #17-NA-101 - (April 4, 2017) Subject: High Shift Effort "Vehicles equipped with the M13 or MM6 and 1LE package (RPO A1X with M13 or A1Y with MM6) are equipped with a short throw shifter assembly that may exhibit higher shift efforts than non 1LE's. This may be more evident at cold temperatures until the transmission and vehicle have reached operating temperature." Read between the lines. This isn't to say Hurst's shifter is going to break the synchos or any. But reducing the throw changes how well the synchos can work... |
03-08-2018, 02:41 PM | #49 | |
Drives: 2017 Camaro 1SS M6 Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Indy
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2017 Camaro 1SS, M6, Hurst shifter, Hyper Blue, NPP, Gray Split Spoke Wheels
Best 1/4 Mile: 12.24 @ 115.9 mph |
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03-08-2018, 03:41 PM | #50 |
corner barstool sitter
Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 19 WRX Join Date: Jul 2012
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More force required at the knob translates (more or less) to faster movement of the synchro rings. Faster wear rates and an increased likelihood of "beating the synchros" can be expected. It won't be an overnight thing unless you grind a gear in truly epic fashion and break off a few bits, just shorter life.
Norm
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'08 GT coupe 5M (the occasional track toy)
'19 WRX 6M (the family sedan . . . seriously) |
03-08-2018, 08:44 PM | #51 | |
Drives: 2017 Camaro 1SS M6 Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Indy
Posts: 2,460
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The statement above is not really accurate. The shifter assembly is simply a lever. By raising the fulcrum point or reducing the shaft length above the fulcrum point, the mechanical advantage will be reduced and force at the knob will increased to get the same level of force at the linkage (which connects to the transmission's shift lever shaft). The synchros would be most directly impacted by the force acting on the linkage and how quickly it's moving. Does that make sense?
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2017 Camaro 1SS, M6, Hurst shifter, Hyper Blue, NPP, Gray Split Spoke Wheels
Best 1/4 Mile: 12.24 @ 115.9 mph |
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03-09-2018, 05:36 AM | #52 |
Drives: 6th gen Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: US
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IMO the thing Ive seen kill syncros quicker is sloppy shifter compared to a tight accurate shifter that is a little faster.
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03-09-2018, 06:19 AM | #53 | |
corner barstool sitter
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While the reduced mechanical advantage works against you for the force required at the shift knob, it works to increase the speed of linkage movement relative to shift knob speed. Can't have one without the other. Granted, I'm assuming that you're maintaining about the same shift knob speed, but I think that's a fair bet especially when you're hurrying a shift and pulling harder on the lever. Norm
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'08 GT coupe 5M (the occasional track toy)
'19 WRX 6M (the family sedan . . . seriously) |
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03-09-2018, 12:15 PM | #54 | |
Drives: 2017 SS 1LE, 2016 1SS (previous) Join Date: Apr 2016
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If you have a manual trans, try playing with your shifting speed, for a given gear and vehicle speed. Shift REAL slow. What happens? The shift is notchier and you may even get some grinding (you will at least feel the synchro assembly clash into the dog teeth). Shift REAL fast. What happens? The shift is notchier and you most likely will get grinding or a couple crunches from the clash of the dog teeth engagement. There is a range in speed where these things work properly. Newer synchro designs tend to be more finicky than the older. A lot is centered around the dog teeth design. The older designs that use large, less numerous dog teeth were more notchy in general operation, but you could get away with a lot more abuse. The newer designs used today, with smaller and more numerous dog teeth, are smoother in general operation, but have less tolerance to abuse. So, having to match a lot of small teeth vs. a smaller amount of bigger teeth. Again, I'm not saying Hurst is operating outside the synchronizer's window. I don't know. I'm not involved in/have investigated into the Camaro's particular transmission parts to that level. But, my stance is 40% is a significant jump away from factory and I don't know what the longer-term effects are of that, being as I don't just drive my car A-B, or only go to a track (whatever type) as a onezie, twozie thing. I used it to it's intent as a sports car... |
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03-09-2018, 04:25 PM | #55 |
corner barstool sitter
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Mountain - I wonder if anybody has tried to slick-shift these newer transmissions . . . and they lived.
Norm
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'08 GT coupe 5M (the occasional track toy)
'19 WRX 6M (the family sedan . . . seriously) |
03-12-2018, 10:56 AM | #56 |
Drives: 2017 SS 1LE, 2016 1SS (previous) Join Date: Apr 2016
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