[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

What I don't get is how they think the PP1 is not the natural competition for the 1LE. Just because it eats shit compared to the 1LE doesn't mean they aren't competitors. It means the PP1 eats shit. They've been using the "natural competitors" and "apples to apples" excuse for years now. Every time the Mustang gets it's ass kicked they default to that excuse. So you're telling me that for the entire S550 Mustang lineup they made not one vehicle that naturally matches and of the Camaros except for the GT and the SS? Or is the GT not the natural competitor to the SS either? Pretty soon the V6 Camaros are gonna be kicking the GT's ass and they'll still be using the same excuse. Matter of fact its getting to the point that it isn't even worth watching these comparisons and H2Hs. It might be time for the Camaro to start competing in a higher league.

It's because the PP2 exists that has a near identical DNA makeup compared to the 1LE. Firmer suspension, larger swaybars, WIDER tires with a better compound.

If Ford didn't have the PP2, the sure...that's all we would have to compare. But that's not the case.

As for the GT, even GM knows it doesn't match up with the SS....which is why they are talking about making one to compete with sales.

"Chevy product head Mark Reuss said yesterday that the automaker is considering a cheaper, stripped-out Camaro SS to better compete with the Mustang GT."

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...amaro-ss-base/

Chevy needs a cheaper camaro with all season tires so they can snag more year round sales. Anyone currently interested in a camaro in the frozen tundra will immediately have to buy a new set of wheels and tires just to be able to drive the car home.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Our friend MEDISIN was kind enough to give us the finals for 2017. More people chose Camaro paying $5,722 more,per car than Mustang. 2:1 men? lol

Retail ATP's 2017 (JDPin)
Camaro: $39,514
Challenger: $35,498
Mustang: $33,792

Retail Sales 2017
Camaro: 65,222
Mustang: 60,581
Challenger: 45,821

It always cracks me up when people puff their chests up that more men prefer the camaro over the mustang. Do you really wan't the sausage fest of the year award for that one? It's a problem for male mustang owners that more women prefer their car then the camaro? Really?

[Bluecyclone]

The manufacturers must follow $ guideline for the thousands of cars they produce so wider wheels cost more ect. Yes, I have skinny tires at 255/ because Ford made the base use 8" wheels. I apppreciate the responses and take advise really well, this S550 in my opinion does not look as good as previous platforms with stripes so I wanted to do decals, is it a mistake? We'll see, Drew's decals is working with me and I have a shipment that was delayed due to postmaster sending my order back because of insufficent address, as the P.O. box wasn't on the package just street address. It's all good, at least I knew enough to fit 40's on the front & 45's on the rear instead of the opposite, lol. Play on.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

It always cracks me up when people puff their chests up that more men prefer the camaro over the mustang. Do you really wan't the sausage fest of the year award for that one? It's a problem for male mustang owners that more women prefer their car then the camaro? Really?

No, these things don't really matter at all. This is a performance discussion, or was intended to be anyway. It is you guys that always throw sales in though.

Why always so mad when all the details and facts are laid out like this? It doesn't feel so cool anymore bragging about sales when it's rental companies and girls buying the car, is that it?

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

No, these things don't really matter at all. This is a performance discussion, or was intended to be anyway. It is you guys that always throw sales in though.

Why always so mad when all the details and facts are laid out like this? It doesn't feel so cool anymore bragging about sales when it's rental companies and girls buying the car, is that it?

Huh? According to the numbers posted, the S550 still has a huge lead in overall retail sales. looking at the first two years of each, the mustang has sold over 30k more cars (retail) compared to the camaro. And for the record, it was ya'll that brought up the sales discussion again.

And again, why do male camaro owners take pride in the fact that girls like mustangs? It's a bad thing that women lust over the mustang more than the camaro?

[1295/SS]

Originally Posted by SSfriendly

Huh? According to the numbers posted, the S550 still has a huge lead in overall retail sales. looking at the first two years of each, the mustang has sold over 30k more cars (retail) compared to the camaro. And for the record, it was ya'll that brought up the sales discussion again.

And again, why do male camaro owners take pride in the fact that girls like mustangs? It's a bad thing that women lust over the mustang more than the camaro?

You don't get the whole "girly car" reputation that's well earned, do ya? Since it's a performance car comparison, I'll take performance over sales but that's just me.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by 1295/SS

You don't get the whole "girly car" reputation that's well earned, do ya? Since it's a performance car comparison, I'll take performance over sales but that's just me.

Oh he gets it, LOL.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by 1295/SS

You don't get the whole "girly car" reputation that's well earned, do ya? Since it's a performance car comparison, I'll take performance over sales but that's just me.

Nope, I get that women like the car that I drive...which I take no issues with.

The "girly" car reputation comes from camaro owners who seem to like only other men lusting after their cars rather than women.

The idea that a car is lesser because it's eye candy to the opposite sex is a bit insulting to women if you ask me.

I find it odd that camaro owners take pride in any of this. Congrats, you own a car that women ignore.

[SDG23]

I would say 9 out of 10 mustangs I see are driven by women and the few that are driven by guys are mostly teenagers or early twenties. I like being somewhat unique so even if I did like mustangs, seeing so many in itself turns me off, they're the stereotypical cookie cutter "sports" car that some just default to because they don't know any better.

To add, I get compliments on the car from both women and men alike, so I it seems they all lust after it lol.

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

What I don't get is how they think the PP1 is not the natural competition for the 1LE.

Because it isn't and never was. Starting with the 5th gen, the 1LE was a car for the 2%. The PP1 was aimed at far wider acceptance, and even the initial review of the PP1 wasn't all positive (IIRC, the PP1 came up noticeably short in the composure dep't. - a pretty big flaw for track purposes).

Just the difference in wheel widths and tire sizes should be a big enough hint that the 1LE and PP1 aren't aimed at exactly the same target. Ford apparently hoped that their definition of "good enough" was enough to fly against what has truly become the benchmark for the category.

Just because it eats shit compared to the 1LE doesn't mean they aren't competitors.

It's the basic cars that will always be competitors. These two specific suspension tunings aren't, any more than the SS or GT from one is seen as the true competition for the sixxer or turbo-4 trims from the other.

Before you try to paint me as a fanboy, I'd very much like to see where the SS/1LE stands in relation to both the PP2 and at least the non-R GT350 (at this point I'm guessing somewhere in between, perhaps closer to the GT350). It really wouldn't bother me which car in such comparisons came out on top, though I do kind of hope that Ford can make something more out of their integral-link rear suspension so that it won't end up having been a complete waste of time.


Norm

[Quinten_33]

I actually see a lot of men driving Mustangs around here. Too bad they're either in bonestock base 5.0s or think they're in a 5.0 with their straight pipped v6...

[Norm Peterson]

Originally Posted by kttxz06

Yes. Anytime a forum is led by thePill, you know what kind of forum it is.

Is he back? I thought he wore out his welcome over there, too. Haven't seen much from him in . . . months at least.


Norm

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Because it isn't and never was. Starting with the 5th gen, the 1LE was a car for the 2%. The PP1 was aimed at far wider acceptance, and even the initial review of the PP1 wasn't all positive (IIRC, the PP1 came up noticeably short in the composure dep't. - a pretty big flaw for track purposes).

Just the difference in wheel widths and tire sizes should be a big enough hint that the 1LE and PP1 aren't aimed at exactly the same target. Ford apparently hoped that their definition of "good enough" was enough to fly against what has truly become the benchmark for the category.


It's the basic cars that will always be competitors. These two specific suspension tunings aren't, any more than the SS or GT from one is seen as the true competition for the sixxer or turbo-4 trims from the other.

Before you try to paint me as a fanboy, I'd very much like to see where the SS/1LE stands in relation to both the PP2 and at least the non-R GT350 (at this point I'm guessing somewhere in between, perhaps closer to the GT350). It really wouldn't bother me which car in such comparisons came out on top, though I do kind of hope that Ford can make something more out of their integral-link rear suspension so that it won't end up having been a complete waste of time.


Norm

Agreed. The only reason we are comparing them, is because Ford has given us no choice.....yet.

Everyone knows the closest comparison to the 1LE is and has been the GT350, but Ford has only allowed the 1LE to compete with the PP1 so far. Ford has its reasons, but I think in the end the reason it is because the 1LE is too competitive considering the price gap, a comparison like that would look TERRIBLE for Ford.

Very excited to see the results of the H2H with the PP2, I just cannot figure out why GM and Ford are on such different pages. It has taken forever for the PP2 to come out, GM released the 1LE is the 2nd MY.

PP2 on the surface seems like the true rival or apples to apples to the 1LE, but I think the GT350 will prove to be more consistent competition. The 1LE comes fully equipped to handle track days, but the PP2 not so much sans coolers. Of course it is yet to be seen if limp mode is an issue, but we would be silly to think it wont be considering the 15-16 GT350 Tech Pack debacle.

I just don't get it. It has 305 Sport Cup 2's FFS......not exactly a daily driver's dream, so why no damn coolers for track duty? Is Ford that cheap? Is the margin that small? I cannot think of a reason tbh.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by SDG23

I would say 9 out of 10 mustangs I see are driven by women and the few that are driven by guys are mostly teenagers or early twenties. I like being somewhat unique so even if I did like mustangs, seeing so many in itself turns me off, they're the stereotypical cookie cutter "sports" car that some just default to because they don't know any better.

To add, I get compliments on the car from both women and men alike, so I it seems they all lust after it lol.

Honestly, MOST of the camaros around me are V6's driven by teenage boys. Hell, my first encounter was one parked way out in the walmart parking lot by a young employee.

As for the sex, again...I'm not sure why people take issue to women preferring the mustang over the camaro. Kudos to Ford. If it makes camaro owners feel better that women prefer mustangs, I'd say they have some major esteem issues.