[motorhead]

Originally Posted by CCG Garnet Red

Respectively disagree. Could have bought my soon to be 17 year old son a nice used 15 or 16 Gen 5, but love the styling of the Gen 6 much better.

The 16 is a GEN6 car too.

[CCG Garnet Red]

Originally Posted by motorhead

The 16 is a GEN6 car too.

Thanks, a typo. Now corrected. Have loved every Gen since 1967.

[JoeCamaro444]

Originally Posted by motorhead

What is fake about it? The data is posted here and on C5 every month and its complete clear back to 2009. They even include total sale of Mustang and Camaro since the beginng.

Just because you dont like the facts doesnt make them fake. Too many people think that way these days.

I’ll give you credit where it’s due. You were correct with the numbers trending down. I took the “it peaked with the gen 5” comment to mean that the Camaro was on the downfall with its value and quality. I said it was fake news because the 6th gen is superior in every way to the 5th gen. You get much more performance and technology for the increased price. I now believe the comment you made was still referring to the sales. I’m with you on that one. 👍🏻

[motorhead]

Originally Posted by JoeCamaro444

I’ll give you credit where it’s due. You were correct with the numbers trending down. I took the “it peaked with the gen 5” comment to mean that the Camaro was on the downfall with its value and quality. I said it was fake news because the 6th gen is superior in every way to the 5th gen. You get much more performance and technology for the increased price. I now believe the comment you made was still referring to the sales. I’m with you on that one. 👍🏻

that's the conversation. Sales. Well a few are babbling about quality, but that just isnt so. I don't see the quality as any worse than the Gen5 cars. The Gen6 is the best Camaro ever built. It had a tough act to follow for one and people are back into trucks and SUVs. The GEN5 had the luxury of many years of pent up demand. The Challenger still looks like a 70's muscle car and Fiat does a good job of offering many cool packages and styling options that keep that outdated platform relevant.
I believe that's why its had slight gains. The scatpak is a bargin. The gen6 Camaro does everything better performance wise, but that is only part of the equation for a lot of folks.

[JoeCamaro444]

Originally Posted by motorhead

that's the conversation. Sales. Well a few are babbling about quality, but that just isnt so. I don't see the quality as any worse than the Gen5 cars. The Gen6 is the best Camaro ever built. It had a tough act to follow for one and people are back into trucks and SUVs. The GEN5 had the luxury of many years of pent up demand. The Challenger still looks like a 70's muscle car and Fiat does a good job of offering many cool packages and styling options that keep that outdated platform relevant.
I believe that's why its had slight gains. The scatpak is a bargin. The gen6 Camaro does everything better performance wise, but that is only part of the equation for a lot of folks.

I’m with you on all the points you mention here. I hope the sales get better. Some more advertising would help, as would some cool package options as you mentioned as well. I still feel that the Camaro is not in danger of being killed off again, at least for a long time. 👍🏻

[closs2sx]

comparing 5th and 6th gen Zl1s
While the 6gen overall is an improved version the only thing I personally disliked about the gen5 was the radio screen especially in the 12. That being said I had a 13 and did not like the rear bumper/taillight update of the 14. On the gen6 I don't care for the 3rd brake light one bit, not crazy about the interior vents or the air bag area of the steering wheel and the radio screen is still an issue so overall I like the 5th gen looks better but I didn't dislike the gen6 enough to not buy one cause I got one coming. Since I went from a 13 zl1 to a 18 zl1 1le the performance is going to be night and day and in the end thats what matters most to me.

[Mountain]

Im still seeing way more higher trim, optioned out cars than of base or mid-level cars. These high-level cars discourage people from seriously considering a buy, then the cars sit until tge price comes down and maybe get sold.


Example is 1SS cars MOVE! They don't sit on lots long. You can still find many new 2017 2SS cars.

[KingLT1]

Up until the last week or so, Most of the country has been in a deep freeze since Christmas. 4wd sales are probably through the roof this year because of how brutal winter has been. So it's no surprise Camaro sales are down. They were doing pretty good last summer and fall. Kelley Chevrolet had like 30 2017's last season and only had 4 left by November.

[camaro5]

Not only is everyone running to SUV's and pickup trucks, autonomous electrification is going phase out most of what we now know as the car.

The pace is rapidly picking up.

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

Either that, or make it more special...improve it. I am optimistic...I have heard such ideas before from the folks that can make it happen: people are always going to want to go fast. Not all people...but us people. We're also going to want to do it ourselves for the thrill, entertainment, and satisfaction.

The market/manufacturers will provide that in some fashion, or another, I'm confident.

I can imagine a future where hyper-car performance level electric Camaros with "Auto Pilot" are a rare breed of vehicle that allows the owner the option to drive it themselves...a steering wheel appears out of the dashboard for these moments. And California, New York, an Connecticut legally require the use of "autopilot" on freeways, even though all vehicles can network and talk to one another...but to have an issue....they've gotta catch you with it "off".

/threadjack

I agree with you. I said "most".

I am confident something fun will be available.

Heck, GM is already embracing this new era with the LT7.

V8 DOHC twin turbo, and electric motor assist. Speculation is around a total hp of 1000!

Then, GM has already patented their twin charged (turbo and supercharged) engine design to replace the LT series.

The Corvette going all mid-engine, all but guarantees a more affordable performance offering - Camaro. 7th gen and all.

Finally - autonomous operation and inter-vehicle communications will change thing for the better as never before.

80% of all accidents can be avoided. Wow!

NHTSA began studying connected cars with DSRC technology in 2002. In 2011, it began collaborating with eight automakers: Ford, GM, Honda, Hyundai-Kia, Mercedes-Benz, Nissan, Toyota, and Volkswagen. DSRC is being developed on an open platform, so all vehicles, regardless of brand, will be able to communicate with one another. Government officials are also working with their European counterparts to create global standards.

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/...shes/index.htm

j

[Fraxum]

Originally Posted by torqueaddict

I think 2018 forward will be more telling regarding sales. The competition has upped the ante, but also their prices. The Mustang is no longer the cheaper alternative. I optioned out a base Mustang GT with similar features as I have now on my 1SS and it was about 3-4 grand more. Why? Because the option choices are not as granular as with the Camaro.

In addition to the higher price, the 6th gen Camaro had also gotten a bad rap regarding visibility, interior and looks, which IMO, was largely undeserved.

While there is certainly a 'cockpit' feel to the car, I think the visibility complaint was overblown.

I walked into the dealer with preconceived notions about the car only to be pleasantly surprised. On the very first test drive I had no issues with visibility. I was more taken aback by the torque and had to floor it at least once to the dismay of the sales rep. Changing lanes was a breeze.

We know looks are subjective, but if you read the mags and forums you would think the car was just hideous. IMO, it's far from it. It had a no-nonsense but at the same time elegant look to it. Don't get me wrong, the 2018 Mustang GT isn't a bad looking car either, but I was a little disappointed when I saw it person, even in the color I wanted - Kona Blue. It just didn't seem as aggressive as the pictures made it out to be.

As for the interior, well, you're free to label me a fanboy, but I also had no gripes with it. Even without the leather accents, the look and feel did not come off as cheap. Yeah, it's certainly not a Camry, Accord or Mercedes, but it felt solid! The fabric on the cloth seats also felt well made and durable. I guess only time will tell.

The Mustang's interior looked gimmicky and too busy, and I did not care for the look of the center console. The shifter felt great however, but so did the Camaro's. And from I read, the Tremec Tr-6060 in the Camaro is less problematic. The only feature of the Mustang's interior that got my interest was the 12" digital guage cluster. However to get that, you paid an arm and a leg. It just was not worth it. The Camaro was the better value.

In the end, admittedly, I was most interested in the power, handling and basic creature comforts I did not have in my previous car. Interior quality usually took a backseat when it came to choosing a car.

Great post.

But opinions will differ.

Agreed about the pricing, a comparable well optioned Mustang seems more expensive. Previously the early Camaros were the victim of too expensive add-on options like $2,000 redline heavy wheels and $3,500 brakes which do offer better feel but not better stopping. But I think dealers have mostly stopped ordering SS Camaros close to or over $50K.

As to visibility the Camaro deserves a bad visibility rap IMO. The car does have a claustrophobic feeling that is mitigated somewhat by a sunroof and the sight lines are pretty awful. Oddly they are slightly better than the 5th gen, but at least in the 5th gen the interior felt much more roomy. I have spent a good deal of time in S197 and S550 Mustangs and sight lines are definitely a few degrees better. And the interior feels more spacious even though the actual dimensions are not that far off. Both the Mustang and the 5th gen Camaro are a nicer place to spend time in driving. However the CA6 Camaro is the most fun car to drive if you appreciate a good handling car.

Looks are very subjective, but on the whole I think the CA6 Camaro is a small step backward from the 5th Gen. Something about the 5th gen from most vantage points looks just right. I even now sort of like the much maligned 14-15 taillights. The CA6 is a good looking car. But it looks too much like the 5th gen to the point where most people can't tell the difference. But it looks like a more cartoonish version of the 5th gen. To be fair most younger folks prefer the CA6 looks. On the other hand the S550 Mustangs look equally as good to me and for some reason more people notice the Mustang. Interestingly I owned a 5th gen ZL1 (I miss that car) right before I picked up my current SS (both black) and I got many more looks in the ZL1 even though the CA6 had just come out. I even spotted the ZL1 being the object of random phone pics even though the design was six years old. My current Camaro is noticed less often than the 5th gens I have owned and I am fine with that. But it does say something about the general public opinion regarding the looks of the car.

As to the interior it gets good marks on the quality front, but to me doesn't look like a $45K car. My wifes $35K Honda Accord Touring interior looks and feels a class up from my Camaro. The $$ were spent on the drive train and chassis with the Camaro. I am okay with that. Where the interior falls down for me is the styling. It looks very disjointed as if different people designed different parts and did not get together to make it all work. The worst part is the two lumps in front of the driver which decreases visibility even further for short people. The 5th gen Camaro had a show car interior. The quality of the materials was low, but if you squinted you felt like you were driving something special. To me the S550 interior, even on the base GT model, is better looking and classier than the CA6, and yet it also gives me the original Gen1 Mustang vibe in a nice way.

These are just my opinions on why the current Camaro is not selling as well as Chevy would hope. But the biggest reason for poor sales is these performance cars are getting very expensive and the younger upwardly mobile crowd are saddled with extremely large student loans. Many of them are moving to the cities and don't even want a car. Baby boomers are starting to die off. The middle class is shrinking. The biggest sales problem is not the car itself.

Now after saying all that, unless someone offers me an even up trade on the right 5th Gen ZL1 for my SS I might just keep it for my forever. I love driving it. But on long trips we will take the Honda. Me maybe not buying another one is also part of the problem. It is just too good.

[Number 3]

First, those that say the Camaro isn't going anywhere are correct. GM isn't going to simply stop selling the car over a really bad month or even the really bad year it has had. For one, ATS and CTS sales are so bad they would have to accept hoisting all the plant overhead on 20,000 Cadillacs. It's all tied together now.

What is at risk is GM's willingness to invest more money in the car. It s all about return on invested capital. And if there is more money to be made in an EV, autonomous vehicle or truck or SUV, that's where it will go. This is what fappened in 1999/2000. GM simply determined the return on investment wasn't there and the car ultimately went away.

So the car doesn't go away, but does GM delay the Gen7? That is the near term risk. And saying spend even MORE to make it even better won't work in a world where sedan and car sales are weakening. Only Accord and Camry seem to be bucking the trend.

Part of the answer is in the comparison of L4 and V6 sales. Most people buying what is a V8 sports car easily justify or over look or don't even see the cars flaws. Someone that isn't a car person who isn't really able to understand how good the SS, 1LE and ZL1 are is looking for different things in a sporty coupe. For them visibility and trunk space are important factors. In 2002 V8 sales were pretty much flat but V6 sales were evaporating.

One other point. Profit margin per car is hugely dependent on volume and the business case for the car. Profit per vehicle goes down as volume goes down. There are fixed costs involved. At the most basic level, heat light and taxes for the plant get spread over fewer units so those costs per car go up.

I think it is partly the automotive environment where coupes are nearly non existent in the market. Sedans are selling terribly. Even Ford just cancelled the 2020 Fusion. The market is changing as are the customers.

[Koldunic]

In the canadian province where I live, very few Camaro are sold each year.

The Mustang has an aura surrounding it. An aura that the Camaro don’t have here. I don’t really understand why.

I expect to have many negative comments on my car but I really don’t care.

[WhiteyDog]

Originally Posted by Koldunic

In the canadian province where I live, very few Camaro are sold each year.

The Mustang has an aura surrounding it. An aura that the Camaro don’t have here. I don’t really understand why.

I expect to have many negative comments on my car but I really don’t care.

That's pretty much the case in my area. On cruise nights we have loads of cool cars, some newer, but mostly older in GM and Chrysler. (Some d*mn nice stuff, too). I find myself twisting my head around if I notice a new Camaro because there are so few around me. ONE guy has a '16 (I believe), in our group of knuckleheads and I talk with him about his at every meet. It's a bad *ss car, I just don't get the lower sales numbers.

[Badmojo]

The marketing sucks, even though every single Car Magazine has positive articles about the 6th gen Camaro. I also don't think the 6th gen looks that different to the 5th gen to the general public.

I got intrigued by the Camaro when a friend that lives on the West Coast said he was buying one. I was bored and went for a test drive. I was really impressed and bought a '18 ZL1 two weeks later.

Price for all cars, not just pony cars, keeps going up. Not many folks can afford or justify a $40-70k car that isn't that practical.