[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Honestly, I have my suspensions about these incidents anyway. But that's a story for another day.


Nobody said it wasn't capable. We remarked at how good the Alpha chassis was which you then demanded some sort of scientific data. Those examples I gave prove how much better the chassis is. The GT chassis is good. It has to be to handle the engine and trans. But it is nowhere near the SS chassis. And that shows in how far off it is in performance. It isn't a matter of a tire swap. GM did a good job on the 6th Gen Camaro and it is evident. The fact that Ford is going to great lengths to keep up and have still fallen short shows how well GM did.

Several people claimed alpha was better than S550. I asked for any specifics that can be given about the chassis to back up that claim and no “ the GT feeling softer and less planted” does not support that claim when the 350 that rides on the same chassis has none of those characteristics.

The R is considered on of the best drivers cars on the planet. On S550.

[R.C. Collins]

Here's a sneak-peek of the PP3 Mustang at Ford's top secret Skunk Works division. No word on price yet, but they swear this will finally put the SS 1LE to shame.

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

Several people claimed alpha was better than S550. I asked for any specifics that can be given about the chassis to back up that claim and no “ the GT feeling softer and less planted” does not support that claim when the 350 that rides on the same chassis has none of those characteristics.

The R is considered on of the best drivers cars on the planet. On S550.

I think it was more about the engine that won best drivers car then the chassis. Reading the article, they couldn’t stop talking about the engine and sound. Plus it takes a R to get good track times.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

Several people claimed alpha was better than S550. I asked for any specifics that can be given about the chassis to back up that claim and no “ the GT feeling softer and less planted” does not support that claim when the 350 that rides on the same chassis has none of those characteristics.

The R is considered on of the best drivers cars on the planet. On S550.

Where did you find info that the GT350 chassis and the GT chassis were the exact same? I was under the impression that the GT350 and the GT350R shared the same suspension and chassis. But not with the GT.

Tires alone will not make that vast of a difference in handling and ride characteristics between the Shelby and the GT.

[BlaqWhole]

Originally Posted by R.C. Collins

Here's a sneak-peek of the PP3 Mustang at Ford's top secret Skunk Works division. No word on price yet, but they swear this will finally put the SS 1LE to shame.

Apples to apples against the SS no doubt...

[Gunkk]

And you can almost buy two SS 1LE’s for the the cost of an R.

Which Ford Excuse Package is it that costs $30k? I forgot the name. Oh yeah. GT350R

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

Several people claimed alpha was better than S550. I asked for any specifics that can be given about the chassis to back up that claim and no “ the GT feeling softer and less planted” does not support that claim when the 350 that rides on the same chassis has none of those characteristics.

The R is considered on of the best drivers cars on the planet. On S550.

The times the 1LE is able to put down while being down on power in comparison to the GT350, imo, are due to a chassis advantage for the Camaro. It also appears the S550 needs 305 MPSC2's to compete with the 285/305 GY's. Why do you think that is? I think it is because of the alpha.

The R is an amazing man. That doesn't mean it has a better chassis than the Alpha. These two concepts are not mutually exclusive. The alpha can be better and the R still be amazing at the same time. Also, we are talking about the GT here so let's keep it on track. The GT and GT350 are not the same car.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by BlaqWhole

Where did you find info that the GT350 chassis and the GT chassis were the exact same? I was under the impression that the GT350 and the GT350R shared the same suspension and chassis. But not with the GT.

Tires alone will not make that vast of a difference in handling and ride characteristics between the Shelby and the GT.

The only non suspension/tire/brake changes that I’ve seen are the aluminum strut tower brace and the composite grill opening brace. Virtually all of the suspension is modified vs the GT. The 350R has stiffer bushings, different dampers and the CF wheels and delete items vs the 350TP.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

The times the 1LE is able to put down while being down on power in comparison to the GT350, imo, are due to a chassis advantage for the Camaro. It also appears the S550 needs 305 MPSC2's to compete with the 285/305 GY's. Why do you think that is? I think it is because of the alpha.

The R is an amazing man. That doesn't mean it has a better chassis than the Alpha. These two concepts are not mutually exclusive. The alpha can be better and the R still be amazing at the same time. Also, we are talking about the GT here so let's keep it on track. The GT and GT350 are not the same car.

I’m not claiming S550 is better. All I asked for was some chassis specific statistic that made alpha better as was being claimed. Nobody can provide it because the data isn’t available. Saying the chassis is better because it handles better than X is inaccurate

[hotlap]

[metros11]

Originally Posted by newmoon

We will find out how much of a difference tire/wheel package makes when the next H2H between the 1LE and PP2 takes place. If the GT suddenly pulls even then so much for the superior chassis on the 1LE, the advantage was tires over the PP1. If the GT only gains a little then we will have to say the 1LE chassis is indeed superior regardless of tire.

But PP2 will have a 305 squared setup with stickier tires than the 1LE, so wouldn't that technically give it an advantage?

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

And yet...this is also why Ford sells more Mustangs...the buying public-at-large wants a cheap V8, and they don't realize how horrible the chassis/handling is in those models, because they've never driven one of the better ones.

The S550 isn't horrible. For a GT car it's just fine, and most people are more than happy with it.

Originally Posted by FastCarFanBoy

I asked about the chassis. not the tires, suspension, steering programming. The Gt350 proves what the S550 chassis is capable of and that shows it every bit as capable as alpha given similar tires, suspension, and steering.

Umm, you forgot about the extra 70 or so horse power. You also forgot that Ford had to invest in suspension parts, which were 90% new over the GT. So yeah, motor and beafier/lighter components, and you have yourself a $15k premium to compete with the 1LE. Meanwhile the 1LE shares suspension tuning with the SS. This isn't apples to apples.

[FastCarFanBoy]

Originally Posted by metros11

But PP2 will have a 305 squared setup with stickier tires than the 1LE, so wouldn't that technically give it an advantage?

It was excuses when the Ford guys mentioned the Z28 using 305 squared Trofeo R’s but now it a valid point that the SC2’s might be better than the F1-3’s?

[Mazman]

Just as a note the PP2 will not just have new tires. Ford has worked some on the chassi, nothing dramatic but still changes. Stiffer sway- bars, stiffer spring-rates, re-mapped magneride tuning and quicker steering calibration. These modifications should resolve the issues MT mentioned in the H2H with regards to the car being to "loose" not sure if bushings etc have been updated as well.

Also the aero might prove to help, not on the salt lake though .

What Ford also should have focused on would be the weight. The wheels are heavy and the rotors are heavy. A 40lbs of unsprung weight would easily be shaved with other wheels and rotors.

Anyhow if all these changes will be enough to make the car more agile and fun time will tell and also if it can stick with the mighty 1LE.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by metros11

But PP2 will have a 305 squared setup with stickier tires than the 1LE, so wouldn't that technically give it an advantage?

The S550 isn't horrible. For a GT car it's just fine, and most people are more than happy with it.


Umm, you forgot about the extra 70 or so horse power. You also forgot that Ford had to invest in suspension parts, which were 90% new over the GT. So yeah, motor and beafier/lighter components, and you have yourself a $15k premium to compete with the 1LE. Meanwhile the 1LE shares suspension tuning with the SS. This isn't apples to apples.

Yes the 305s are an advantage. The same type of advantage the 1LE has had over the GT for the past 5 years. Are superior tires now a problem?