[Chadicus]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

Or cancel the car until Australia saves your ass with a new platform

The Mustang could use a new platform too. Heard they cancelled the S650 though. Bummer. Guess we will see if people will pay 50k to sit on phone books and race across dry lakebeds.

[F1FTY]

Originally Posted by drew peacock

.the s550 chassis is junk..nothing can be done about the shite platform

^this.

Ford just doesn't have the ability to compete at the same price points due to the difference in chassis. The Alpha is really just that good and we should all be thankful that Team Camaro was able to use it for the new platform and build on it.

Now just imagine what they could do with the Alpha 2....

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham

This concept you described is exactly what happened in 2014 when they put that 662hp engine in there. It was still left in the dust.

We'll see, should be interesting!

I wouldn't say it was left in the dust, considering the GT500 put up the better lap times in 2 out of the 4 tests (1 to ZL1 1 tie). Yes they weren't repeatable due to brake fade and they ultimately chose the ZL1 but to say it was left in the dust is false.

As far as the GT500 vs ZL1, I think it should best it in all the measurables and I would expect it to put up a better lap time. I do NOT think they will best the ZLE on a road course though. The more I think about the GT500 I think its going to be inbetween the ZL1 and ZLE

[vtirocz]

Originally Posted by F1FTY

^this.

Ford just doesn't have the ability to compete at the same price points due to the difference in chassis. The Alpha is really just that good and we should all be thankful that Team Camaro was able to use it for the new platform and build on it.

Now just imagine what they could do with the Alpha 2....

My only fear is that Alpha2 may be heavier and larger than the existing Alpha architecture to accommodate a broader range of Cadillac sedans.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by F1FTY

^this.

Ford just doesn't have the ability to compete at the same price points due to the difference in chassis. The Alpha is really just that good and we should all be thankful that Team Camaro was able to use it for the new platform and build on it.

Now just imagine what they could do with the Alpha 2....

This is it! Ford is behind an entire generation in chassis design, and it is holding them back big time this generation. Their approach to the PP2 is essentially GMs approach last Gen with the Z28, minus the unique engine.

They are taking an outdated chassis and throwing a TON of rubber on it to make it corner. The S550 needs 305s up front to even sniff the 1LE at the track. That alone demonstrates a clear gap in chassis technology between these 2 platforms. There is no arguing that, facts are facts.

The 350R is the furthest the S550 platform can be taken from a cornering perspective. With that in consideration, its performance is less than spectacular for sure.

[SpeedIsLife]

Originally Posted by drew peacock

utter bunch of retards over on that forum..
the camaro wipes the floor with the s550 end of story...the s550 chassis is junk..nothing can be done about the shite platform

It's the same platform as the GT350, the only difference is suspension components beyond the obvious brakes and wheels..and the GT350 is almost universally hailed as being amazing.

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

It's the same platform as the GT350, the only difference is suspension components beyond the obvious brakes and wheels..and the GT350 is almost universally hailed as being amazing.

True, Ford did well with the GT350.

[DevilsReject97]

Originally Posted by SuperSound

Take a look at the 1LE vs ZL1 times on Big Willow. That big of HP difference only paid 2 secs better with essentially the same car. You're talking about half that HP advantage on the R's time, which is 2 secs behind as well. They are going to need more than just a blown 5.2L in a R to get ahead of the ZL1. I definitely think it's possible, but they have to improve in handling or weight.

Yeah, and even there, look at the H2H with the Z28 vs. the GT500....the Z28 didn't get beat nearly as bad as people expected with the 150hp deficit...

The ZL1 is going to be tough to beat, and even harder to simply destroy....

I mean think about this...the only way the GT500 becomes an outright ZL1 killer is if it can corner as well as the ZL1 with all that power. Why do you think we NEVER see any of the Hellcat cars out on the roadcourses? They simply aren't designed for it...

I'm not saying you can't race them...but they're designed more for straights than curves..

[Gunmetalmissle]

Sounds like a lot of the praise for the gt350 is due to the R’s carbon fiber wheels. From the motor trend review of the non-R:

“When you drive it back-to-back with the R, you learn just how big a difference those lightweight wheels make: The GT350R feels hundreds of pounds lighter. It’s not—just 67 pounds separated our two test cars—but the non-R’s steering is heavier and less communicative, and it’s noticeably less responsive to all inputs. Its Michelin Pilot Super Sports are 10mm thinner than the R’s Pilot Sport Cup 2s, and grip trails off, too. The only handling demerit the GT350 earns is electric power steering that runs out of assistance if you try to make quick corrections. Those, mercifully, are rare so long as you’re not trying to drift it; the optional MR dampers provide the same supernatural body control that the R’s do.“

[F1FTY]

Originally Posted by vtirocz

My only fear is that Alpha2 may be heavier and larger than the existing Alpha architecture to accommodate a broader range of Cadillac sedans.

Very, very true. Fingers crossed, although it would allow them to address all the complaints about rear seat/trunk space (unfortunately for us sports car enthusiasts).

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by vtirocz

My only fear is that Alpha2 may be heavier and larger than the existing Alpha architecture to accommodate a broader range of Cadillac sedans.

Originally Posted by F1FTY

Very, very true. Fingers crossed, although it would allow them to address all the complaints about rear seat/trunk space (unfortunately for us sports car enthusiasts).

GM can always apply lessons learned from Omega with Alpha 2. Remember the CT6 weighs the same( or even maybe a bit lighter) compared to the CTS despite being bigger than the CTS.

But then you'll just have to worry about the Camaro's price going even higher.

[vtirocz]

Originally Posted by F1FTY

Very, very true. Fingers crossed, although it would allow them to address all the complaints about rear seat/trunk space (unfortunately for us sports car enthusiasts).

The Cadillac ATS coupe rear seat space is significantly better than the Camaros. This is one area I think the Camaro team could have done much better.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

This is it! Ford is behind an entire generation in chassis design, and it is holding them back big time this generation. Their approach to the PP2 is essentially GMs approach last Gen with the Z28, minus the unique engine.

They are taking an outdated chassis and throwing a TON of rubber on it to make it corner. The S550 needs 305s up front to even sniff the 1LE at the track. That alone demonstrates a clear gap in chassis technology between these 2 platforms. There is no arguing that, facts are facts.

The 350R is the furthest the S550 platform can be taken from a cornering perspective. With that in consideration, its performance is less than spectacular for sure.

So it’s OK for the 1LE to have much wider front and rear tires than the PP1, but when the PP2 matches the rear tire width of the 1le and has wider fronts…it’s compensating for an inferior chassis? Really? Are you listening to yourself?

Originally Posted by SpeedIsLife

It's the same platform as the GT350, the only difference is suspension components beyond the obvious brakes and wheels..and the GT350 is almost universally hailed as being amazing.

Exactly, it’s the same damn chassis…how no-one else gets this is beyond me.

[Spartan268]

Originally Posted by Razzaa

Just watched the H2H. Man this SS is a sweet platform!!! Decided to check out the comments on M6G. What a shit show over there!! They have all kinds of excuses lol. Claiming engine torque is meaningless etc.

Let's see. Claims that torque is meaningless in a performance aspect yet gets a whooping on the track, can't beat the 1LE in 0-60, and still can't beat it in the 1/4. Oh but the totally almost non-existent 1 mile drag strip it gets the win.. Which is probably the most useless thing there is cause it's fair to say a SS can easily overcome that gap in the long run due to basic physics. (Key words: Downforce and drag, the same things that give 1LE the advantage on the track)

And before the Mustang people get their panties in a knot. Google "Does downforce slow down a car":
The design increases safety for the driver as the cars go faster and faster each year. But as the speeds increase, for safety's sake, the downforce has to increase as well. The additional downforce increases drag which acts to slow the car down.

Mustang now costs more so it's less of a tuner platform everyone throws it around to be. On the 2016 models I would agree it's an amazing base car to start on before modding. But now? It's way less desirable on that front. The extra few thousands could be better spent on bolts on rather than playing catch up. Oh and there's also:
As tested by MT the Mustang (without Recaros, without video performance data recorder, without rear brembos, etc) was ˜$4,000 more than "the GM"

Tires is still an issue which is understandable. I guess Ford can't even build a proper performance package. At least they have the MPS4S which is better than the Run Flats; just skinnier though.

So basically we came to the conclusion that despite the odd-ball match of a track focused car vs an all rounder, the 1LE still takes the win. Can't wait til the PP2 is out, even more excuses will be made