[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Has any media publication gotten anywhere near 11s with a stock Camaro? Test results on average make it an 12:50s ride, their numbers not mine. We are just supposed to take the owners word that all these 11s were stock right? Sorry I have a lot more faith in what Evan and HotRod's numbers on the GT were and I also believe that Jeff and HotRod put every effort into getting everything out of the SS they possibly could, unfortunately it was only 12:20s, still faster than any other publication had tested it.

I'm with Blaq on this until a private party tests a stock car the numbers posted here don't mean anything. There was no verification of the car being truly stock, and running stock fuel, as we all know it is way to easy to conceal minor mods. 12:20s is the SS's best verified pass in the 2+ years it has been out, unless somebody can show me a link to a faster hit.

That makes 3 of us then.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by vtirocz

I think you're comparing non-SAE corrected runs (ie. Evan's 11.8 run and even HR's run of the Camaro) to SAE corrected runs (C&D, MT). Corrected times will help make a fair comparison between the different runs. Also, if one test adjusts tire pressure, etc. and the other is constrained with running the factory settings, this will make a difference as well, as will differing launch surfaces.

We'll see in head to head comparison tests if the Mustang is really faster.

Edmunds was the first comparison test, MotorTrend's Head2Head should be out next week. I'm sure C&D will do one as well. These will be the true tests of which is quicker.

Very good point.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by Zeke.Malvo

You can try to justify and make sense of it all you want, but just look at the crate engine prices. 'Nuff said.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Once you find me a price of the new direct inject 5.0? Two the price of a crate engine is not reflective of mfg cost, it is reflective of what the market can bare. I've seen ZERO 5.0 into any other car / truck body swap at my local GTG. I see about say 10% of the local guys have some sort of LS swap. You can whistle in the dark all you want but a quad cam, dual injected, dual runner, complicated header V8 is more expensive to build that a single cam in the block, single injector, single runner V8. Ford would have to basically give away their crate engines to make any impact on the market. Heck last time I was at the track there was a pro-street Fox Mustangs in the 9s. I went over to have a look, hopping I'd see a OHV 351 or maybe a 460... nope it was a LSX

[ST1LE]

Originally Posted by oldman

Once you find me a price of the new direct inject 5.0? Two the price of a crate engine is not reflective of mfg cost, it is reflective of what the market can bare. I've seen ZERO 5.0 into any other car / truck body swap at my local GTG. I see about say 10% of the local guys have some sort of LS swap. You can whistle in the dark all you want but a quad cam, dual injected, dual runner, complicated header V8 is more expensive to build that a single cam in the block, single injector, single runner V8. Ford would have to basically give away their crate engines to make any impact on the market. Heck last time I was at the track there was a pro-street Fox Mustangs in the 9s. I went over to have a look, hopping I'd see a OHV 351 or maybe a 460... nope it was a LSX

Oh jeez, I thought we were talking production cost this whole time. Yeah, if Chevy can charge more for a cheaper LT1/LSX engine than Ford can charge for their more expensive 5.0, I think that is VERY telling.

In the end of the day, I think the Coyote is just too dang big for people wanting engine swaps.

[oldman]

Originally Posted by ST1LE

Oh jeez, I thought we were talking production cost this whole time. Yeah, if Chevy can charge more for a cheaper LT1/LSX engine than Ford can charge for their more expensive 5.0, I think that is VERY telling.

In the end of the day, I think the Coyote is just too dang big for people wanting engine swaps.

Your lips to god's ear.

Back in the day, I think it was HotRod, whish I could find the article did a bolt on cam swap DZ302 vs Boss 302. The DZ302 ended up with some big Duntov mechanical, cross ram, the Boss ended up with 8 barrel downdraft autolites HUGE cam like no way to idle 550 HP at like 7500 RPM. I'd love to see cam and intake swap would do to each engine LT1 vs direct inject 5.0


http://www.chevyhardcore.com/tech-st...the-winner-is/

[TEEZYSS]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Did you read the Hot Rod Camaro test article? Did you miss the part about Private Track Rental, 80 passes and Lutz at the wheel? Funny the GT was almost 4 tenths quicker and several mph faster in a Max stock ET effort by the same publication. Maybe Lutz can't drive?

See how easy it is to pick and choose the results you want to acknowledge.

Its not about picking and choosing results.. Your opinions are based off brand loyalty while mine are actually looking at the facts.



FACTS:

*Car was sent from Ford to a company prepped for Media not from a dealership.

*Only other 18 GT to match MPH was using Drag Mode and was in -1300 to -1700 DA. Same car also cut almost the same 60ft in Drag Mode yet was .25 slower in the 1/8 2 mph slower in the 1/8 and over .3 slower in the 1/4 mile.

* stock Cars on Dr's that have matched or bettered his 60ft on street tires in mineshaft DA haven't run his time or mph

* Some of the cars with mods and Drag packs haven't matched his ET in better DA.

*Hell mods shop cars like VMP who rented the damn track went slower on lighter wheels and mods on the same day.

* Has 2 mph in the 1/8 over every other stock 18.



Its not apples to apples seeing how the CAMARO was tested in what March of the year which isn't exactly mine shaft DA and was tested at WILD HORSE PASS which is 1145ft above sea level where the 2018 was tested the first week of December which we all know is cold as hell and they tested at Orlando Speedway which is 55ft above sea level. If you watch the video people are in t-shirts because it was between 70-85 degrees that day with DA ranging from 2500-3000.

The temps could be identical and the track the Camaro was tested would still be a slower track just from DA.


There are plenty of people that have tested DA alone with no changes made to the cars and seen a pretty reasonable gap. Especially in 6th gen that has very sensitive knock sensors that will pull timing for everything. Hell the 6th gen being 100% direct injected even picks up false knock from how loud the injectors are.... most of not all the 11 sec cars are in +1000 down to negatives. None are done at 2500-3000 DA.


So with Jeff Lutz or Big Chief behind the wheel you can’t expect them to overcome the sea level and DA. Plus you don’t know if the camaro test has a full tank of gas or was at 1/4. Hell thats 6lbs per gallon. Unlike the mustang that was delivered from ford you don’t know where the fuel came from. Hell from station to station the 93 can vefy causing timing to be pulled and considering the camaros were driving 1500 miles then raced who knows....


These are facts!!! I don’t hate the 2018 GT I’m just looking for all the other 11 second stockers...

[13vertss]

Originally Posted by TEEZYSS

Its not about picking and choosing results.. Your opinions are based off brand loyalty while mine are actually looking at the facts.



FACTS:

*Car was sent from Ford to a company prepped for Media not from a dealership.

*Only other 18 GT to match MPH was using Drag Mode and was in -1300 to -1700 DA. Same car also cut almost the same 60ft in Drag Mode yet was .25 slower in the 1/8 2 mph slower in the 1/8 and over .3 slower in the 1/4 mile.

* stock Cars on Dr's that have matched or bettered his 60ft on street tires in mineshaft DA haven't run his time or mph

* Some of the cars with mods and Drag packs haven't matched his ET in better DA.

*Hell mods shop cars like VMP who rented the damn track went slower on lighter wheels and mods on the same day.

* Has 2 mph in the 1/8 over every other stock 18.



Its not apples to apples seeing how the CAMARO was tested in what March of the year which isn't exactly mine shaft DA and was tested at WILD HORSE PASS which is 1145ft above sea level where the 2018 was tested the first week of December which we all know is cold as hell and they tested at Orlando Speedway which is 55ft above sea level. If you watch the video people are in t-shirts because it was between 70-85 degrees that day with DA ranging from 2500-3000.

The temps could be identical and the track the Camaro was tested would still be a slower track just from DA.


There are plenty of people that have tested DA alone with no changes made to the cars and seen a pretty reasonable gap. Especially in 6th gen that has very sensitive knock sensors that will pull timing for everything. Hell the 6th gen being 100% direct injected even picks up false knock from how loud the injectors are.... most of not all the 11 sec cars are in +1000 down to negatives. None are done at 2500-3000 DA.


So with Jeff Lutz or Big Chief behind the wheel you can’t expect them to overcome the sea level and DA. Plus you don’t know if the camaro test has a full tank of gas or was at 1/4. Hell thats 6lbs per gallon. Unlike the mustang that was delivered from ford you don’t know where the fuel came from. Hell from station to station the 93 can vefy causing timing to be pulled and considering the camaros were driving 1500 miles then raced who knows....


These are facts!!! I don’t hate the 2018 GT I’m just looking for all the other 11 second stockers...

Other facts with the Camaro test. They went there to see if they can beat GM claims of speed in 1/4 in both the manual and 8 speed in the same day. They kept factory PSI in tires as this is how gm tested. They also made 80 passes in both cars for the day. So that is 10 passes a hr for a 8hr track rental. So no cool down what so ever. Plus they said the track was prepped, but not the best. So the only thing they did to the car was different take off rpms to get best launch. I read 1.9 was best 60'.

[ST1LE]

When owners cars start running at the track, and don't get anywhere near the Hot Rod time, people WILL stop talking about it.

They will only continue to look like fools if they keep bringing up this hero run, if they are not able to duplicate it in their own '18's.

What we are interested in here is repeatable results, and the '18 has none as of now.

[TEEZYSS]

Originally Posted by 13vertss/r's

Other facts with the Camaro test. They went there to see if they can beat GM claims of speed in 1/4 in both the manual and 8 speed in the same day. They kept factory PSI in tires as this is how gm tested. They also made 80 passes in both cars for the day. So that is 10 passes a hr for a 8hr track rental. So no cool down what so ever. Plus they said the track was prepped, but not the best. So the only thing they did to the car was different take off rpms to get best launch. I read 1.9 was best 60'.

Apples to cumquats

Originally Posted by ST1LE

When owners cars start running at the track, and don't get anywhere near the Hot Rod time, people WILL stop talking about it.

They will only continue to look like fools if they keep bringing up this hero run, if they are not able to duplicate it in their own '18's.

What we are interested in here is repeatable results, and the '18 has none as of now.

That’s what everyone else is seeing now. There have been quite a few 18’s already tracked and most are running mid 12’s and trapping 114-117 I’m all this good weather.

But people will hang onto “the ringer” that’s not really a ringer.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by TEEZYSS

Its not about picking and choosing results.. Your opinions are based off brand loyalty while mine are actually looking at the facts.



FACTS:

*Car was sent from Ford to a company prepped for Media not from a dealership.

*Only other 18 GT to match MPH was using Drag Mode and was in -1300 to -1700 DA. Same car also cut almost the same 60ft in Drag Mode yet was .25 slower in the 1/8 2 mph slower in the 1/8 and over .3 slower in the 1/4 mile.

* stock Cars on Dr's that have matched or bettered his 60ft on street tires in mineshaft DA haven't run his time or mph

* Some of the cars with mods and Drag packs haven't matched his ET in better DA.

*Hell mods shop cars like VMP who rented the damn track went slower on lighter wheels and mods on the same day.

* Has 2 mph in the 1/8 over every other stock 18.



Its not apples to apples seeing how the CAMARO was tested in what March of the year which isn't exactly mine shaft DA and was tested at WILD HORSE PASS which is 1145ft above sea level where the 2018 was tested the first week of December which we all know is cold as hell and they tested at Orlando Speedway which is 55ft above sea level. If you watch the video people are in t-shirts because it was between 70-85 degrees that day with DA ranging from 2500-3000.

The temps could be identical and the track the Camaro was tested would still be a slower track just from DA.


There are plenty of people that have tested DA alone with no changes made to the cars and seen a pretty reasonable gap. Especially in 6th gen that has very sensitive knock sensors that will pull timing for everything. Hell the 6th gen being 100% direct injected even picks up false knock from how loud the injectors are.... most of not all the 11 sec cars are in +1000 down to negatives. None are done at 2500-3000 DA.


So with Jeff Lutz or Big Chief behind the wheel you can’t expect them to overcome the sea level and DA. Plus you don’t know if the camaro test has a full tank of gas or was at 1/4. Hell thats 6lbs per gallon. Unlike the mustang that was delivered from ford you don’t know where the fuel came from. Hell from station to station the 93 can vefy causing timing to be pulled and considering the camaros were driving 1500 miles then raced who knows....


These are facts!!! I don’t hate the 2018 GT I’m just looking for all the other 11 second stockers...

Ok l understand Hotrod and Smith cheated on the 18 GT test, but the 6th Gen private owners could not, would not, never ever. Ok the excuses are getting good.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by newmoon

Ok l understand Hotrod and Smith cheated on the 18 GT test, but the 6th Gen private owners could not, would not, never ever. Ok the excuses are getting good.

There is large enough body of SS data to sort it out. All 30 didn't cheat

Chevy claims the SS A8 is a 12.3 car. The average here (below) shows its actually 12.1

1-15 = 12.061
1-20 = 12.098
1-25 = 12.130
1-30 = 12.165

Line up against a SS expecting 12.5 but you'll get burnt. I hot lapped three runs with my wife in the car and ran 12.6 every pass just rolling into the throttle. First pass ever was 12.3 and easy to repeat on a poor track

Time will show where the Smith pass fits into the average. I'll bet it won't be 11.8.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by hotlap

There is large enough body of SS data to sort it out. All 30 didn't cheat

Chevy claims the SS A8 is a 12.3 car. The average here (below) shows its actually 12.1

1-15 = 12.061
1-20 = 12.098
1-25 = 12.130
1-30 = 12.165

Line up against a SS expecting 12.5 but you'll get burnt. I hot lapped three runs with my wife in the car and ran 12.6 every pass just rolling into the throttle. First pass ever was 12.3 and easy to repeat on a poor track

Time will show where the Smith pass fits into the average. I'll bet it won't be 11.8.

I get it they cheated. We will dismiss the 5 passes in the 11s they ran and only honor the 12:60s from C&D.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by TEEZYSS

*Car was sent from Ford to a company prepped for Media not from a dealership.

You do realize that nearly every magazine article for the GT or Camaro was done using media prepped vehicles don't you? Take a look at any of them and notice the manufacture plates.

I can't believe some of you are eluding to this as an excuse still.

[SSfriendly]

Originally Posted by newmoon

I get it they cheated. We will dismiss the 5 passes in the 11s they ran and only honor the 12:60s from C&D.

Of course they cheated! How else were they able to run times that none in here wants them to?

But seriously, it's funny that there have been far more low low 12 runs than mid 12's...yet some seem to be gripping on to the mid 12 narrative.