[FeloJr65]

Hello,

My company may be sending me to Midland Michigan in January for a couple of years. Although I lived in MN when I was a kid, I have lived most of my adult life in South FL. Thus, no experience in driving on snow & ice.

Most people have told me that I will have to trade my 2016 Camaro SS for some type of 4X4 vehicle due to the snow & ice. I have also been told that even with snow tires (or all season), I will not be able to get around up there in my Camaro.

I hate to have to trade my Camaro. Any thoughts from people who live up north where you have to deal with snow & ice? Any comments / advice will be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Best,
rbj

[1COR.1:18]

Don't drive it with Summer Only Tires.

Buy some new rims and some Pirelli Scorpion Ice & Snow Tires on all 4 corners.

You will be fine.

[FeloJr65]

Originally Posted by 1COR.1:18

Don't drive it with Summer Only Tires.

Buy some new rims and some Pirelli Scorpion Ice & Snow Tires on all 4 corners.

You will be fine.

Thank you 1COR.1:18 I appreciate your advice!

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by FeloJr65

Hello,

My company may be sending me to Midland Michigan in January for a couple of years. Although I lived in MN when I was a kid, I have lived most of my adult life in South FL. Thus, no experience in driving on snow & ice.

Most people have told me that I will have to trade my 2016 Camaro SS for some type of 4X4 vehicle due to the snow & ice. I have also been told that even with snow tires (or all season), I will not be able to get around up there in my Camaro.

I hate to have to trade my Camaro. Any thoughts from people who live up north where you have to deal with snow & ice? Any comments / advice will be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

Best,
rbj

Every winter, I see a lot more trucks and SUV's in the ditch than I do cars. The vehicle isn't the problem, its the driver. People drove RWD cars without traction control & without ABS for most of the history of the automobile. Heck, your car even has a Snow/Ice driving mode to make things easier. Remember, you are going to Michigan. The same state that GM did the bulk of their R&D for the Camaro in.

First step is to get winter tires, and ideally winter rims as well. If you do get winter rims, try to get them a bit smaller in diameter and narrower in width. The narrowness helps cut through the snow, making for a denser pack to drive on. The smaller diameter comes in handy around March when the potholes magically appear. More sidewall gives you a better chance at not wrecking your rim when (not if) you hit one. Another benefit of being winter wheels is you won't have to mount & unmount tires every few months. But if you don't really have much of a choice, you can put winter tires onto your stock wheels & be fine.

Now, as for winter driving itself. Best advice is to seek advice from somewhere other than a car forum. Like AAA, driving schools, etc. But until then ... here are a few things to remember for an absolute beginner:

Always remember the first rule of driving: look where you want to go. That is to say, if you're veering off the road aim for the gap between the trees don't stare at the one right in front of you. This applies in all seasons, in all situations, for any vehicle.

When you first pull out of your driveway when its snowy/icy, ease onto the gas to build up a little bit of speed (but don't go too fast). Then (assuming nobody is behind you), hit the brakes hard. You'll feel the ABS pulsing. Avoiding that comes later. For now, take note of how much longer it takes you to come to a stop than normal. Then get going again, and try to make an emergency stop before reaching a specific mark, like a driveway. Odds are, you'll still overshoot. Keep trying until you don't. If possible, do this in an empty parking lot.

While doing all those stops, you should have also gotten a lot better at accelerating without spinning the tires as a natural side effect. Congrats.

Once you get comfortable doing emergency stops at slow speed, pick up the pace a bit and do it again. After that, make some longer stops. The kind you'll be making 99.9% of the time. If the ABS is pulsing, you're stopping too hard. Try again and give yourself more space. It helps if you imagine there is a big open tank of raw sewage right behind you. Stop too hard & it'll slosh into you. Ditto with acceleration. Be nice and smooth. As an added bonus, if you make this a normal part of how you drive you'll probably pick up a couple MPG too.

That covers the straight line stuff. Now the fun part: turning. This where an empty lot comes in really handy because wide, empty, curbless streets are rare. Anyway, in the most suitable learning environment you have access to, do some slaloms. Not particularly fast or tight, just enough to feel how the car behaves when its changing direction while carrying a little bit of speed. As you get more comfortable, push things a bit more. Take turns a bit faster and/or sharper. If you have the space to do it safely, take it to the limit. See what it feels like when things go wrong.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Once you've got a good feel for how a car accelerates, stops, and turns in the snow, you're ready to learn what to do when driving in the snow. Up until now, all you've learned is how to responsibly control your car.

Out of those 3 things, the most important is turning. In an emergency, if its at all possible, drive around things instead of stopping. Not only is it usually easier, you're unlikely to get stuck. And if you aren't stuck, you're probably aren't going to get rammed from behind.

Next most important is stopping. This keeps you from hitting things. It also means that the ability to accelerate is least important -a fact that completely escapes the AWD/4WD advocates. The logic goes like this: you'll rarely be able to escape a dangerous winter driving situation by accelerating out of it. But the ability to get up to speed quickly and easily can get you into a lot more dangerous situations. Especially if it makes you forget that you can't stop or turn like normal.

Some general tips include ...

• Assuming that everyone around you is worse at driving than you are.
• When going up hill, try to maintain momentum. Don't 'power' your way up it, and don't stop unless absolutely necessary.
• Check your washer fluid every now and then, you'll be going through a lot of it over the winter & you never want to learn that you're out of it when you're trailing a semi on the highway.
• Regularly rinse off the salt & dirt from under your car.
• Always keep a snow brush/scraper in the car.
• Might be a good idea to keep some traction aids in the trunk too for if you get stuck. Kitty litter is popular. There are also plastic traction mats to place under your tires. Or many people just use their floor mats.
• Staying home is always an option, and sometimes the best one.

Thats all I can think of for now. I wasn't expecting to write a 1000 word treatise on winter driving tonight, but here we are. Also, you'll notice that pretty much none of the above applies specifically to the Camaro. As I said near the beginning, the problem in winter isn't the car ... its the driver. For me personally, I love driving in the winter. You can approach the cars limits while staying well clear of the speed limit. Its more engaging because there is more stuff that you need to pay attention to. And often, there are fewer cars on the road.

[Overflow]

Hi. I live in Minot, North Dakota. Which is at the very top of the state. 30 minute drive from the Canadian border to be exact. And I'm also from Florida. So I know exactly how you feel. I had never seen snow until I was stationed here.

DG has covered most of it, but I figured I'd give my $0.02 here.

My roommate has driven a Pontiac G8 for the past two years here. He actually traded in a 4x4 Ford Expedition for it. He sports winter tires during winter, and many times me and him have stopped on the side of the road and successfully pulled out cars and trucks. Including 4x4 vehicles.

You don't need a 4x4 vehicle to survive up here. Like you said, remember that people have gotten by up north in the past when vehicles were all RWD with big engines. Spend the extra money on good snow tires and you will do just fine.

The two most used snow tires up here are Blizzaks and Scorpions.

[FeloJr65]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Every winter, I see a lot more trucks and SUV's in the ditch than I do cars. The vehicle isn't the problem, its the driver. People drove RWD cars without traction control & without ABS for most of the history of the automobile. Heck, your car even has a Snow/Ice driving mode to make things easier. Remember, you are going to Michigan. The same state that GM did the bulk of their R&D for the Camaro in.

First step is to get winter tires, and ideally winter rims as well. If you do get winter rims, try to get them a bit smaller in diameter and narrower in width. The narrowness helps cut through the snow, making for a denser pack to drive on. The smaller diameter comes in handy around March when the potholes magically appear. More sidewall gives you a better chance at not wrecking your rim when (not if) you hit one. Another benefit of being winter wheels is you won't have to mount & unmount tires every few months. But if you don't really have much of a choice, you can put winter tires onto your stock wheels & be fine.

Now, as for winter driving itself. Best advice is to seek advice from somewhere other than a car forum. Like AAA, driving schools, etc. But until then ... here are a few things to remember for an absolute beginner:

Always remember the first rule of driving: look where you want to go. That is to say, if you're veering off the road aim for the gap between the trees don't stare at the one right in front of you. This applies in all seasons, in all situations, for any vehicle.

When you first pull out of your driveway when its snowy/icy, ease onto the gas to build up a little bit of speed (but don't go too fast). Then (assuming nobody is behind you), hit the brakes hard. You'll feel the ABS pulsing. Avoiding that comes later. For now, take note of how much longer it takes you to come to a stop than normal. Then get going again, and try to make an emergency stop before reaching a specific mark, like a driveway. Odds are, you'll still overshoot. Keep trying until you don't. If possible, do this in an empty parking lot.

While doing all those stops, you should have also gotten a lot better at accelerating without spinning the tires as a natural side effect. Congrats.

Once you get comfortable doing emergency stops at slow speed, pick up the pace a bit and do it again. After that, make some longer stops. The kind you'll be making 99.9% of the time. If the ABS is pulsing, you're stopping too hard. Try again and give yourself more space. It helps if you imagine there is a big open tank of raw sewage right behind you. Stop too hard & it'll slosh into you. Ditto with acceleration. Be nice and smooth. As an added bonus, if you make this a normal part of how you drive you'll probably pick up a couple MPG too.

That covers the straight line stuff. Now the fun part: turning. This where an empty lot comes in really handy because wide, empty, curbless streets are rare. Anyway, in the most suitable learning environment you have access to, do some slaloms. Not particularly fast or tight, just enough to feel how the car behaves when its changing direction while carrying a little bit of speed. As you get more comfortable, push things a bit more. Take turns a bit faster and/or sharper. If you have the space to do it safely, take it to the limit. See what it feels like when things go wrong.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Once you've got a good feel for how a car accelerates, stops, and turns in the snow, you're ready to learn what to do when driving in the snow. Up until now, all you've learned is how to responsibly control your car.

Out of those 3 things, the most important is turning. In an emergency, if its at all possible, drive around things instead of stopping. Not only is it usually easier, you're unlikely to get stuck. And if you aren't stuck, you're probably aren't going to get rammed from behind.

Next most important is stopping. This keeps you from hitting things. It also means that the ability to accelerate is least important -a fact that completely escapes the AWD/4WD advocates. The logic goes like this: you'll rarely be able to escape a dangerous winter driving situation by accelerating out of it. But the ability to get up to speed quickly and easily can get you into a lot more dangerous situations. Especially if it makes you forget that you can't stop or turn like normal.

Some general tips include ...

• Assuming that everyone around you is worse at driving than you are.
• When going up hill, try to maintain momentum. Don't 'power' your way up it, and don't stop unless absolutely necessary.
• Check your washer fluid every now and then, you'll be going through a lot of it over the winter & you never want to learn that you're out of it when you're trailing a semi on the highway.
• Regularly rinse off the salt & dirt from under your car.
• Always keep a snow brush/scraper in the car.
• Might be a good idea to keep some traction aids in the trunk too for if you get stuck. Kitty litter is popular. There are also plastic traction mats to place under your tires. Or many people just use their floor mats.
• Staying home is always an option, and sometimes the best one.

Thats all I can think of for now. I wasn't expecting to write a 1000 word treatise on winter driving tonight, but here we are. Also, you'll notice that pretty much none of the above applies specifically to the Camaro. As I said near the beginning, the problem in winter isn't the car ... its the driver. For me personally, I love driving in the winter. You can approach the cars limits while staying well clear of the speed limit. Its more engaging because there is more stuff that you need to pay attention to. And often, there are fewer cars on the road.

Dear DG,

I am so grateful that you took the time to write such a comprehensive, detailed and useful narrative on this topic. You have no idea how helpful this is to me, and how much I appreciate your kind help. I will follow your advise, and concentrate on the driving skills I must learn, along with fitting my car with the proper wheels & tires and aux equipment.

Thank you again, and all the best always.
rbj

[FeloJr65]

Originally Posted by Overflow

Hi. I live in Minot, North Dakota. Which is at the very top of the state. 30 minute drive from the Canadian border to be exact. And I'm also from Florida. So I know exactly how you feel. I had never seen snow until I was stationed here.

DG has covered most of it, but I figured I'd give my $0.02 here.

My roommate has driven a Pontiac G8 for the past two years here. He actually traded in a 4x4 Ford Expedition for it. He sports winter tires during winter, and many times me and him have stopped on the side of the road and successfully pulled out cars and trucks. Including 4x4 vehicles.

You don't need a 4x4 vehicle to survive up here. Like you said, remember that people have gotten by up north in the past when vehicles were all RWD with big engines. Spend the extra money on good snow tires and you will do just fine.

The two most used snow tires up here are Blizzaks and Scorpions.

Thank you very much Overflow. It is good to hear from another fellow Floridian. I have been looking at wheels and Scorpion tires. I will most definitely concentrate on DG's and your advise, and work on mastering the basic driving techniques that will hopefully keep me on the road safe. I will let you guys how things progress. Thank you again my friend.
Best,
rbj

[BMR Sales]

I haven't lived up North since I was in College, but back then, we all had "Beaters" to drive in the Winter - the Bigger the better, Trucks, Station Wagon, my last one was a 70s Pontiac LeMans. If you got a Dent, you didn't care. If it blew up, you took your plate and left it there.

No matter what you do, find a big parking lot and go do donuts and slides in the snow so you can get an idea of what you will be facing.

[DevilsReject97]

All very excellent points and great information to be had in this thread. I'm surprised this isn't posted somewhere else....and if it is, good to know.

The snow tires are a very excellent choice, but considering the cost, a beater car may be just as equally easy to do..

[Iron Lung Jimmy]

Originally Posted by BMR Sales

No matter what you do, find a big parking lot and go do donuts and slides in the snow so you can get an idea of what you will be facing.

^^^This!!!^^^

In addition to learning how to control your car on snow, it is tremendous fun!

One Christmas Day in Ohio I woke up to see it had dumped around a foot of snow overnight. My first thought... mall parking lot!

[its a syn]

Originally Posted by BMR Sales

I haven't lived up North since I was in College, but back then, we all had "Beaters" to drive in the Winter - the Bigger the better, Trucks, Station Wagon, my last one was a 70s Pontiac LeMans. If you got a Dent, you didn't care. If it blew up, you took your plate and left it there.

No matter what you do, find a big parking lot and go do donuts and slides in the snow so you can get an idea of what you will be facing.

This is sound advice. Grew up in Minnesota, practice in the snow in a lot as another post mentioned. If you do drive the Camaro, you should get the front bumper protected. The sand used on the snow will pit it bad. Try not to tailgate if possible when sand is on the road.

[FeloJr65]

Thank you guys for all the great comments and advice. I am excited and a little concerned ... maybe I should wrap up my car with giant bubble wrap ... lol