[big dave]

Originally Posted by hotlap

^^^ spokesman for the majority of people right here.

Some like the challenge of trying to squeeze the most out of the stock combination. That is challenging and becomes a test of the driver rather than his wallet. Big Dave comes to mind

You can question my times all you want but I see no reason to post stock times if my car is modified in any way...which it isn't! I questioned the mph when I got the slip, I've been racing long enough to know when something doesn't seem right. When I posted the time, I was quick to say that I didn't think it was right. If I was someone on the outside looking in, I would question it too. I do plan on going to another track to back up the et. Considering that I ran the time it did on only it's second pass going down the track, I think there is definite room for improvement. I've got more 11.2 passes than I do 11.3s or slower.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by bobby35ny

Is it really that much on a 6th gen? Been a while since I looked at it but thought it wasnt much at all? If its that much I may need to reconsider one for the 2SS. The info I remember was lime 10hp and no change in ET or MPH at the track.

YUP, 20-25 on the ZL1, Remember they use almost the same box. The extra air benefits the supercharger for sure.

http://www.camaro6.com/forums/showth...hlight=rotofab

-Bobby

AH, yes on the ZL1 I would expect that much. Saw the same on my old Challenger that was supercharged when I put a CAI on it. On a NA car not so much unfortunately. A SC wants all the air it can get.

Originally Posted by wnta1ss

You said that changing tires is not a mod. That is the lie I was talking about. Perhaps you did not specifically say your car is stock, but you are claiming that changing tires is not a mod, and therefore by your way of thinking, your car with DRs mounted is included in the 'not modded' group. Perhaps I could have made the point better, but the inference was there.

No, I said changing tires shouldn't matter and that people who are serious know better than to race on street tires. That's mine, and most other folks who actually go to the track opinion. I'm a proponent of giving the car the tires it needs to successfully use every bit of power it has effectively. No more no less. We actually do private track rentals and won't even allow guys on street tires to come as it tears up the prep and ruins it for those of us who actually spent a few bucks on good tires.

Once you start adding goodies to the engine there are far too many variables to make comparisons outside of bang for the buck car vs car.

All this stock tire stuff must be something that this forum focuses on....the others I'm on never even mention tires that I've ever noticed . When I go to the track I want max performance possible for the conditions, and not have to hope for negative DA, excellent prep, or other things out of my control.

If "bone stock" is the only thing considered, what are you guys gonna do when Good Year changes up tire offerings a couple years down the road and perhaps no longer offers the "bone stock" tires the car came with? By then this will have all faded away as some other hot car will be all the rage I guess and no one will care anymore by then.

If in the end we find the ZL1 is sophisticated enough that it can launch as hard as possible on the stock tires when compared to DRs or slicks, then that's a huge win for the car and saves owners the trouble. We don't know that yet though. A 1.7 60' is certainly promising though.

The Demon pulls wheelies on it's stock tires so there's hope for Dodge as well. I'm hopeful they follow through and offer those tires as an option on the Hellcat so I can quit having these silly debates LOL We'll all be relegated to talking about how heavy the Challenger is and how the Camaro looks like a catfish LOL

[NicD]

Originally Posted by HAMMERHEAD15

Ain't nobody with an A10 seen anywhere close to a negative DA yet! Also nothing better than a 1.7 60 ft. So to say it's the track is BS! I have yet to be able to turn the nannies off and launch the car with all it has on stock tires. You have to drive it!

Huh? Are you trying to disagree with me that some tracks have infinitely better traction than others, some states have better gas than others, some tracks are located in areas that hit negative DA, or are you trying to say that it's not as simple as hitting the gas and going straight?

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by NicD

Huh? Are you trying to disagree with me that some tracks have infinitely better traction than others, some states have better gas than others, some tracks are located in areas that hit negative DA, or are you trying to say that it's not as simple as hitting the gas and going straight?

I know you're not directing this at me, but here's my unsolicited .02 cents.

Yes, prep and proper fuel will definitely help (93 vs 91 octane for example), however there is a lot more to it than hitting the gas and going straight. With proper prep, there may be opportunity to bump the launch RPM, adjust tire pressures for max MPH as well as launch RPM, how quickly the driver can roll to the floor with the throttle, etc and are all things the driver has to take in to account to get the most out of the conditions. Negative DA usually means colder temps and a lot of times at night, so then you have to deal with how the tires react to a cold track surface on top of everything else.

As you can see, a lot more than just smashing the throttle to the floor and holding the wheel straight. I sometimes WISH it was just that easy

[NicD]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

I know you're not directing this at me, but here's my unsolicited .02 cents.

Yes, prep and proper fuel will definitely help (93 vs 91 octane for example), however there is a lot more to it than hitting the gas and going straight. With proper prep, there may be opportunity to bump the launch RPM, adjust tire pressures for max MPH as well as launch RPM, how quickly the driver can roll to the floor with the throttle, etc and are all things the driver has to take in to account to get the most out of the conditions. Negative DA usually means colder temps and a lot of times at night, so then you have to deal with how the tires react to a cold track surface on top of everything else.

As you can see, a lot more than just smashing the throttle to the floor and holding the wheel straight. I sometimes WISH it was just that easy

LOL, yeah I get all of that but it really is just as easy as hitting the gas or rolling into it slightly if the track isn't good enough. The stickiest tracks will hold the car when just smashing the gas with the built in torque management. As with the C7 Z06s your best times will come from flashing the converter without any RPM preload and without traction control or launch control turned on to get in the way of a sticky track. If you do it right it is just as easy as hitting the gas and holding the wheel straight. I do that in my C7 Z06 and it runs 10.20s. As for run conditions and everything else as an example, nobody in Arizona is going to be competing against somebody who is running at MIR or ATCO, that is a half a second difference if not more just in track prep and DA.

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by big dave

You can question my times all you want but I see no reason to post stock times if my car is modified in any way...which it isn't! I questioned the mph when I got the slip, I've been racing long enough to know when something doesn't seem right. When I posted the time, I was quick to say that I didn't think it was right. If I was someone on the outside looking in, I would question it too. I do plan on going to another track to back up the et. Considering that I ran the time it did on only it's second pass going down the track, I think there is definite room for improvement. I've got more 11.2 passes than I do 11.3s or slower.

I was holding you up as someone that enjoys the challenge of getting the most out of the stock configuration. We discussed this a few times in the gen5 world so I know your thinking and don't doubt you at all. You actually motivated me (and others) to do the same.

I don't plan to modify my car while its in warranty and a CAI or drag radials alone wouldn't be worth getting bumped into the modified list. Its far more fun working toward a 12.1 and I see no reward in lying to get there.

My SS ET of 12.2 is below average for the fast list but the 116.5 mph is high so . The car is absolutely 100% stock and has been confirm so by the dealer this month for warranty work

[hotlap]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

All this stock tire stuff must be something that this forum focuses on....the others I'm on never even mention tires that I've ever noticed . When I go to the track I want max performance possible for the conditions, and not have to hope for negative DA, excellent prep, or other things out of my control.

Its a requirement of the fast list here. Tires alone moved you to the modified list. Its that simple. Is it only this forum?

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

If "bone stock" is the only thing considered, what are you guys gonna do when Good Year changes up tire offerings a couple years down the road and perhaps no longer offers the "bone stock" tires the car came with? By then this will have all faded away as some other hot car will be all the rage I guess and no one will care anymore by then.

The cars capabilities will be documented by then and they will be out of warranty. It won't matter.

Modify your car any way you want. Its not stock

The Demon crate ...that can't be delivered with the car ...that is purchased for $1 at the parts counter ...because its not legal. Not stock

My .02 cent

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by NicD

LOL, yeah I get all of that but it really is just as easy as hitting the gas or rolling into it slightly if the track isn't good enough. The stickiest tracks will hold the car when just smashing the gas with the built in torque management. As with the C7 Z06s your best times will come from flashing the converter without any RPM preload and without traction control or launch control turned on to get in the way of a sticky track. If you do it right it is just as easy as hitting the gas and holding the wheel straight. I do that in my C7 Z06 and it runs 10.20s. As for run conditions and everything else as an example, nobody in Arizona is going to be competing against somebody who is running at MIR or ATCO, that is a half a second difference if not more just in track prep and DA.

Then I argue that Z06 is making it too easy on you 100% agree on the DA/prep statement. I wish I could get some runs at Atco one of these days. Unicorn air at that place.

I'm assuming Z06 is an auto? My buddy's manual couldn't get past 11.80, but he ran a pretty nice MPH. Takes finesse to run good times in a manual...and lots of practice so I don't hold much value in his times thus far.

Which tires on the Z06? My buddy's has the upgraded tires that look almost slick....Pilot Sport Cup 2?

10.20 is doing really well and faster than I'd expect for that car and a full second faster than what's posted for the ZL1 with the same engine/trans. The last one I saw running like that had DRs and a pulley at my local track Beech Bend. Not saying yours has that, just what I've seen personally. Track prep at Beech Bend on TNT day isn't great so that is worth mentioning.

[NicD]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

I'm assuming Z06 is an auto? My buddy's manual couldn't get past 11.80, but he ran a pretty nice MPH. Takes finesse to run good times in a manual...and lots of practice so I don't hold much value in his times thus far.

Which tires on the Z06? My buddy's has the upgraded tires that look almost slick....Pilot Sport Cup 2?

10.20 is doing really well and faster than I'd expect for that car and a full second faster than what's posted for the ZL1 with the same engine/trans. The last one I saw running like that had DRs and a pulley at my local track Beech Bend. Not saying yours has that, just what I've seen personally. Track prep at Beech Bend on TNT day isn't great so that is worth mentioning.

Yes it's an auto but it isn't stock. It has a pulley, headers with cats, and a cold air intake. It had hoosier drag radials on it and when I ran the 10.20s it was approximately 4400 ft density altitude. AZ just can't compete with the negative DA tracks.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by NicD

Yes it's an auto but it isn't stock. It has a pulley, headers with cats, and a cold air intake. It had hoosier drag radials on it and when I ran the 10.20s it was approximately 4400 ft density altitude. AZ just can't compete with the negative DA tracks.

That all makes sense. DA doesn't affect FI cars as much as NA, but still material at that altitude. Makes me thankful for the 1500 I usually see.

[Speedy1975]

Originally Posted by hotlap

Its a requirement of the fast list here. Tires alone moved you to the modified list. Its that simple. Is it only this forum?


The cars capabilities will be documented by then and they will be out of warranty. It won't matter.

Modify your car any way you want. Its not stock

The Demon crate ...that can't be delivered with the car ...that is purchased for $1 at the parts counter ...because its not legal. Not stock

My .02 cent

I guess it is this forum that keeps records like that so organized. I couldn't find one at all on the Hellcat forum. We had one on the other Mopar forum I'm a part of but it just listed times and what the car had on it, never a section for stock vs whatever....just the slower cars had less mods as you'd expect. No biggie, if that's a thing and people enjoy it cool. I'm too impatient and get frustrated at the track if I can't use all my horse powers and torques

I did take my Camaro to the track bone stock and play with it. 1.8 60' I think was the best and a 12.09 at 114 I think, which wasn't bad on the stock tires I thought. However you start getting in to higher HP cars and like I've said it does get dangerous. I'd never do it in the Hellcat as it's just not worth hurting myself or someone else to see how fast I can go on those crappy tires. The ZL1 sounds like it may have some fancy programming that makes it not get to out of shape.

I'll let you argue with the Demon owners on the crate being stock or whatever LOL. I think the world has already passed you by on that discussion, however.

[HAMMERHEAD15]

Originally Posted by NicD

Huh? Are you trying to disagree with me that some tracks have infinitely better traction than others, some states have better gas than others, some tracks are located in areas that hit negative DA, or are you trying to say that it's not as simple as hitting the gas and going straight?

What? I'm disagreeing with you that it is the driver and not the track! Obviously some tracks reach negative DA but since the A10 didn't hit the track until April or later none of these cars have been run in negative DA! It is certainly not as simple as hitting the gas and driving straight! Some tracks have better traction and the two I run at usually do pretty good but you can't use all the power at launch with out blowing the tires!

[2NASSTY]

You A10 Guys crack me up. Yeah believe me, it is that easy in a Auto.

Back on topic, I do believe the ZL1 A10 will dip into the 10s in -DA at ATCO, MIR bone stock factory tire. I also expect to see 130-132 MPH trap speeds.

I feel for the M6 Guys. I honestly believe they will have to void their warranty to make this Car work at the strip. It will happen though. Somebody on here that wants it bad enough will make it work.

[newmoon]

Originally Posted by Speedy1975

I guess it is this forum that keeps records like that so organized. I couldn't find one at all on the Hellcat forum. We had one on the other Mopar forum I'm a part of but it just listed times and what the car had on it, never a section for stock vs whatever....just the slower cars had less mods as you'd expect. No biggie, if that's a thing and people enjoy it cool. I'm too impatient and get frustrated at the track if I can't use all my horse powers and torques

I did take my Camaro to the track bone stock and play with it. 1.8 60' I think was the best and a 12.09 at 114 I think, which wasn't bad on the stock tires I thought. However you start getting in to higher HP cars and like I've said it does get dangerous. I'd never do it in the Hellcat as it's just not worth hurting myself or someone else to see how fast I can go on those crappy tires. The ZL1 sounds like it may have some fancy programming that makes it not get to out of shape.

I'll let you argue with the Demon owners on the crate being stock or whatever LOL. I think the world has already passed you by on that discussion, however.

You have some good points here, when you are dealing with 650+hp cars running them at a strip is rolling the dice for sure, and while many mention their great passes they don't mention how many blown passes there were before, between, and after. Any car as powerful as this should be running DRs, but I disagree with those running these tires claiming to be stock.

In regards to the Demon crate, it is an option you can order with the car directly from Dodge it should be considered stock, but I can see the arguement as it is not an option on the build sheet .