Max effort fuel system? - Page 2

toohighpsi · 10-13-2016, 10:17 PM

I'd suggest you wait at least a month, I've heard rumors of HBDI fuel system components larger than LT4 hardware being released at SEMA

jessrayo · 10-14-2016, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toohighpsi

I'd suggest you wait at least a month, I've heard rumors of HBDI fuel system components larger than LT4 hardware being released at SEMA

Can you give us more information on who HBDI is? When I google that acronym all I get some brain dominance test stuff....

EXSSIVE · 10-14-2016, 09:56 AM

Im guessing it was a miss-type of high volume direct injection.

GirlyNFG · 10-14-2016, 10:40 AM

I added meth to get from 750ish to 800. I am out of fuel at 6700ish... one pull was done to 6900. I forget the HP from that pull. My car also has the cordes low side supplemental pump. I'm not sure I can go any further until someone makes injectors or I go back to 91...

I am going to a dyno day on sunday on a Dnyojet... we will see what it does there... I hate being a dyno queen but track days are hard to get to for a service writer :(

parish8 · 10-14-2016, 11:40 AM

Girly. So you have everything but the larger fuel pump lobes and you got to 750rwhp. Do you know what was running out? Low pressure? High pressure? Injector window?

I see you are a m6. Even with the cam lobes I do not see getting anywhere close to 900rwhp with an a8.

GirlyNFG · 10-14-2016, 11:56 AM

I replaced the high side pump and injectors during the cam swap and blower install... initially I made mid 600s with the setup out of the box. Then we dropped the pulley and added long tubes. That got me to mid 700s and we ran out of rail pressure. Thats when we added the cordes low side pump. Then injectors were tapped out without any hp gains (it was just safer). Last I added the meth system. IIRC, we are out of injector only right now. But yea, 900rw seems like a difficult goal to obtain on e85. Im sure it could be done with 91 and meth though...just not as safe.

Gmanuel · 10-14-2016, 02:48 PM

Whoever comes out with a supplementary port injection kit is going to make a killing.

GirlyNFG · 10-14-2016, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmanuel

Whoever comes out with a supplementary port injection kit is going to make a killing.

yup.

jessrayo · 10-14-2016, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GirlyNFG

I added meth to get from 750ish to 800. I am out of fuel at 6700ish... one pull was done to 6900. I forget the HP from that pull. My car also has the cordes low side supplemental pump. I'm not sure I can go any further until someone makes injectors or I go back to 91...

I am going to a dyno day on sunday on a Dnyojet... we will see what it does there... I hate being a dyno queen but track days are hard to get to for a service writer :(

Quote:

Originally Posted by parish8

Girly. So you have everything but the larger fuel pump lobes and you got to 750rwhp. Do you know what was running out? Low pressure? High pressure? Injector window?

I see you are a m6. Even with the cam lobes I do not see getting anywhere close to 900rwhp with an a8.

My car has a low side system and now will have the LT4 mechanical pump and injectors. I'll post on here what it dynos without a cam.

I think the key for right now, is to go with one of the more aggressive cam lobes. GirlyNFG has the smallest cam lobe upgrade available, 32% above stock. There appears to be a lot more fuel available with the 4 lobe configuration from Comp Cams, they advertise 75% above stock. People are getting over 1000 whp with these cams.

An upgraded mechanical pump seems like the most logical route for a vendor to jump into and make some sales.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gmanuel

Whoever comes out with a supplementary port injection kit is going to make a killing.

Supplementary port injection would be very complex to tune. Unless you do something very crude like a wet nitrous system you are going to have a hard time adding a completely different fuel map for another set of injectors on top of the existing direct injection injectors. I'm sure it can be done but to optimize the a/f ratios across the power band is going to be a nightmare.

Plus, we haven't pushed these LT engines that hard yet but I suspect the head gaskets are going to start failing when you go much over 800 whp. LS blocks need 6 bolt heads above about 830 whp or they fail. Been there done that....twice.

GirlyNFG · 10-14-2016, 05:25 PM

When New Era specd my cam it was gonna stay blower and cam only... #famouslastwords
We have talked about swapping it again, but it just drives so nicely.

toohighpsi · 10-14-2016, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jessrayo

Can you give us more information on who HBDI is? When I google that acronym all I get some brain dominance test stuff....

LOL, sorry I meant HPDI...

Cdflyer · 10-18-2016, 07:57 PM

Ironically.

http://www.stanadyne.com/fuel_system/oem-specialty/

The "small" pump is what we LT1 cars get, and the "large" pump is the LT4 pump.

In anyway, the OEM supplier only makes pumps that will support 700 hp apparently.

parish8 · 10-18-2016, 10:07 PM

I have tuned a couple of cars with dual fuel and 2 ve maps. It isn't that hard to do but a single computer with one large fuel system would be easier.

I have been well over 1000rwhp with 4 bolt heads on an ls motor 10 years ago and know a pile of other people that have done it as well. There is no reason to believe the lt wont go there. Aren't some people up in the 1400rwhp range on the corvette forum with stock(but worked over) heads?

Slowhawk · 10-19-2016, 03:42 PM

So far on the Camaro's I've seen the stock low side fuel pump start losing pressure at 550rwhp on my dyno. That is about 100hp lower than the C7's.
On the C7's with LT4 high pressure pump,low side upgraded The fuel handle's about 750-800rwhp on my dyno - 93 octane. Meth can bring it to 1000rwhp.
I really don't see e-85 going 900rwhp with what you listed. At least not on my dyno.

10-14-2016, 10:40 AM	#18
GirlyNFG Drives: 2016 Camaro SS M6 w/ NPP Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: SoCal Posts: 253	I added meth to get from 750ish to 800. I am out of fuel at 6700ish... one pull was done to 6900. I forget the HP from that pull. My car also has the cordes low side supplemental pump. I'm not sure I can go any further until someone makes injectors or I go back to 91... I am going to a dyno day on sunday on a Dnyojet... we will see what it does there... I hate being a dyno queen but track days are hard to get to for a service writer :( __________________ Whipple 2.9, Custom New Era Performance cam, E85, LT4 fuel system, Motec powered port injection, teeny tiny Nitrous Outlet system, Stainless Works LTs, Centerforce Triad, GForce 9" with strange pro case 3.50 gears. Carlyle 15" conversion 28"x10.5" MT ET Drag 28"x4.5" M&H fronts PB: 9.569 @ 151.05

10-14-2016, 11:56 AM	#20
GirlyNFG Drives: 2016 Camaro SS M6 w/ NPP Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: SoCal Posts: 253	I replaced the high side pump and injectors during the cam swap and blower install... initially I made mid 600s with the setup out of the box. Then we dropped the pulley and added long tubes. That got me to mid 700s and we ran out of rail pressure. Thats when we added the cordes low side pump. Then injectors were tapped out without any hp gains (it was just safer). Last I added the meth system. IIRC, we are out of injector only right now. But yea, 900rw seems like a difficult goal to obtain on e85. Im sure it could be done with 91 and meth though...just not as safe. __________________ Whipple 2.9, Custom New Era Performance cam, E85, LT4 fuel system, Motec powered port injection, teeny tiny Nitrous Outlet system, Stainless Works LTs, Centerforce Triad, GForce 9" with strange pro case 3.50 gears. Carlyle 15" conversion 28"x10.5" MT ET Drag 28"x4.5" M&H fronts PB: 9.569 @ 151.05

10-14-2016, 05:25 PM	#24
GirlyNFG Drives: 2016 Camaro SS M6 w/ NPP Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: SoCal Posts: 253	When New Era specd my cam it was gonna stay blower and cam only... #famouslastwords We have talked about swapping it again, but it just drives so nicely. __________________ Whipple 2.9, Custom New Era Performance cam, E85, LT4 fuel system, Motec powered port injection, teeny tiny Nitrous Outlet system, Stainless Works LTs, Centerforce Triad, GForce 9" with strange pro case 3.50 gears. Carlyle 15" conversion 28"x10.5" MT ET Drag 28"x4.5" M&H fronts PB: 9.569 @ 151.05

10-18-2016, 07:57 PM	#26
Cdflyer Drives: 2016 1SS 6speed Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: IL Posts: 527	Ironically. http://www.stanadyne.com/fuel_system/oem-specialty/ The "small" pump is what we LT1 cars get, and the "large" pump is the LT4 pump. In anyway, the OEM supplier only makes pumps that will support 700 hp apparently. __________________ 2016 1SS M6 P1SC Stg II 592rwhp/548rwtq (for now) GForce Outlaw axles & driveshaft, TSP 2” LT’s, turndowns, RTS S71 drag pack with radials.

10-13-2016, 10:17 PM	#15
toohighpsi Drives: 2015 C7 Z06 M7 Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: So-Cal Posts: 665	I'd suggest you wait at least a month, I've heard rumors of HBDI fuel system components larger than LT4 hardware being released at SEMA

10-14-2016, 09:56 AM	#17
EXSSIVE Drives: 2016 Camaro 1SS M6 Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Akron, OH Posts: 181	Im guessing it was a miss-type of high volume direct injection.

10-14-2016, 11:40 AM	#19
parish8 Drives: 17 SS a8 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: omaha Posts: 1,678	Girly. So you have everything but the larger fuel pump lobes and you got to 750rwhp. Do you know what was running out? Low pressure? High pressure? Injector window? I see you are a m6. Even with the cam lobes I do not see getting anywhere close to 900rwhp with an a8.

10-14-2016, 02:48 PM	#21
Gmanuel Drives: 2007 335i Join Date: May 2016 Location: Dallas Posts: 144	Whoever comes out with a supplementary port injection kit is going to make a killing.

10-18-2016, 10:07 PM	#27
parish8 Drives: 17 SS a8 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: omaha Posts: 1,678	I have tuned a couple of cars with dual fuel and 2 ve maps. It isn't that hard to do but a single computer with one large fuel system would be easier. I have been well over 1000rwhp with 4 bolt heads on an ls motor 10 years ago and know a pile of other people that have done it as well. There is no reason to believe the lt wont go there. Aren't some people up in the 1400rwhp range on the corvette forum with stock(but worked over) heads?

10-19-2016, 03:42 PM	#28
Slowhawk Drives: 1999 Trans Am Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Bridgewater,Ma Posts: 2,018	So far on the Camaro's I've seen the stock low side fuel pump start losing pressure at 550rwhp on my dyno. That is about 100hp lower than the C7's. On the C7's with LT4 high pressure pump,low side upgraded The fuel handle's about 750-800rwhp on my dyno - 93 octane. Meth can bring it to 1000rwhp. I really don't see e-85 going 900rwhp with what you listed. At least not on my dyno.

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